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Propellers for Hasegawa 1/72 Raidin 'Jack'


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I've started on my 1/72 Hasegawa Raidin 'Jack' to try out the new CMR detailing sets.

The kit has a choice of two propellers, Parts 7 & 12 marked A and B.

The instructions are entirely in Japanese and nowhere on the finishing instructions can I see any reference as to which of the 3 subjects offered has which propeller.

Can anyone help: perhaps through a later kit issue with instructions in English.

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OMG-The worms have escaped their can! Interesting question- one I bet Nick Millman might be able to answer with more certainty. Francillon's Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War doesn't make any mention of standard and paddle blade props for the J2M's, but there was some discussion of Raiden prop types on the J-Aircraft website, where one of the posters stated that the high performance, paddle blade props seemed to be fitted to J2M's that had a 4-digit tail code and the standard chord prop seemed to be fitted to Raidens with 3-digit tail codes, but no photos or text references were given  to back that assertion. I'm guessing maybe the paddle blade prop was fitted to Raiden  groups based on the home islands going up against high-flying B-29's and thus needing the extra performance? Both the Sword and Hasegawa1/72  kits, which I have and just now examined, offer the standard and paddle blade props, and both kits have basically the same markings choices, with one being 3D-1195, a J2M-3 from the 302nd Naval Air Group. Both kit instructions show either prop can be fitted, but neither indicates which markings choice gets the paddle blade prop. How's that for confusing? Wish I could read Japanese, as I bet my Maru Mechanic and FAOW books on the  Raiden have something on the subject. If somebody has the Aero Detail on the J2M's, it might have some information on prop type. Wish I could be more helpful, but I'm still struggling with proper Spitfire wheel bay colors! Ha! @Nick M

Mike

 

 

Edited by 72modeler
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26 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

OMG-The worms have escaped their can! Interesting question- one I bet Nick Millman might be able to answer with more certainty. Francillon's Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War doesn't make any mention of standard and paddle blade props for the J2M's, but there was some discussion of Raiden prop types on the J-Aircraft website, where one of the posters stated that the high performance, paddle blade props seemed to be fitted to J2M's that had a 4-digit tail code and the standard chord prop seemed to be fitted to Raidens with 3-digit tail codes, but no photos or text references were given  to back that assertion. I'm guessing maybe the paddle blade prop was fitted to Raiden  groups based on the home islands going up against high-flying B-29's and thus needing the extra performance? Both the Sword and Hasegawa1/72  kits, which I have and just now examined, offer the standard and paddle blade props, and both kits have basically the same markings choices, with one being 3D-1195, a J2M-3 from the 302nd Naval Air Group. Both kit instructions show either prop can be fitted, but neither indicates which markings choice gets the paddle blade prop. How's that for confusing? Wish I could read Japanese, as I bet my Maru Mechanic and FAOW books on the  Raiden have something on the subject. If somebody has the Aero Detail on the J2M's, it might have some information on prop type. Wish I could be more helpful, but I'm still struggling with proper Spitfire wheel bay colors! Ha! @Nick M

Mike

 

 

Thanks for your reply: I'm 'glad' I'm not the only one confused!  I'll see if there's anything on J-Aircraft website, also wait a little and see if anything else comes up or anyone has the instructions in English.   BUT....

I have a grandson living and working in Japan and 'proficient' in Japanese - how good I'm unable to judge.  I thought I'd try a posting here first before contacting him.  However he is 'arts' rather than 'science' and might have difficulty fully understanding what I was asking - or indeed why it mattered!

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Ihave never found pictures of the three aircraft in the Hasegawa instructions.  Of the few pictures that I have seen of the 302 Air Group at Atsugi airbase, they all seem to have the paddle bladed prop.

 

Raiden-Atsugi.jpg

 

I have this kit, it was about 80% finished before I got distracted. Maybe someday I will finish it.

 

Hope this helps

 

Garry c

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Hello

In his book Mitsubishi J2M Raiden from Mushroom series Robert Peczkowski states that wider blade propellers had been introduced during production of J2M2 Model 11 to help eliminate engine vibrations. I also have this kit but probably another edition as only two marking options are included. Nevertheless both box top and instructions state this is a kit of J2M3 Model 21 aircraft so wider bladed prop should probably be used. Cheers

Jure

P.S.: When I actually opened building instructions and not just glanced over camouflage schemes I discovered that part 12 (wider blades) should be used for 352nd Naval Kokutai (3/52-20 with lightnings on fuselage) Raiden and part 8 (regular blades) for 302 Naval Kokutai (3D-155) aircraft.

Edited by Jure Miljevic
J2M2 in last sentence corrected into J2M3
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Gary C and Jure,

 

Wanna go crazy? How about these photos of the POF's preserved Raiden, which clearly has a paddle blade prop, but also has the 352nd group's lightning bolts and the 302nd group's tail codes? It was one of the Raidens captured and test-flown, but was stripped of its original markings and paint, so who's to say what her original markings were? Is this a great hobby or what? I'm guessing that like many P-47's, different prop types were swapped between airplanes during their lifetime.

Mike

 

https://acesflyinghigh.wordpress.com/2018/03/17/the-survivors-mitsubishi-j2m-raiden-the-last-japanese-thunderbolt/

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I just realized that there was several releases of this kit. My kit has a blue label and instructions in English.  Subjects 1 and 2 are 302nd Air Wing (Atsugi Base); tail numbers prefix ED (the E is reversed) tail numbers 153 and 1195.

Subject 3 is Tainan Air Wing, the Second; tail number prefix two characters in Japanese(vaguely resembling the number 7 and the letter T ) tail number 101.

 

Garry c

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Hello

Mike, I followed that link you provided and I found a photo of 352 Kokutai aircraft option from my box. Her propeller blades do seem to be of a wider type so at least this option is confirmed. By the way, in the same Mushroom book I mentioned in my previous post there is a colour profile of production J2M2, not prototype, with three bladed propeller. Go figure ...

Another question: were there not only various editions of the same kit but also different kits of Raiden in 1/72 released by Hasegawa? In mine numbers of propeller parts are 8 and 12 while Denford in his OP mentioned 7 and 12. Any ideas? Cheers

Jure

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You're quite right: the propellers in my kit are 8 and 12.  Well spotted.  Also:

- The E 'backwards' is Katakana, pronounced 'Yo', and denotes 'Yokosuka'.  That photo of the line up of 'Jacks' at Atsugi is therefore either mis-identified or they were all collected there.  Clearly post-surrender judging by the DC-3: some interesting other planes there too including something (to the left of the DC-3) that looks vaguely like a Stuka!

- Forgot to say that my grandson in Japan is called Jack, though that's not why I've taken the kit from my stash.  It was to try out the CMK set in the hopes that they might produce more!

- Still haven't quite established whether the instructions link any of the subjects to particular blades, but as was said, the blades could have been changed for improved altitude performance.

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Denford, that photo could be take after Japan surrendered but I doubt it. Armistice conditions specified all aircraft to be parked outdoors with their propellers removed, simple but effective expedient to render them immobilized and allow regular inspections by PR aircraft at the same time.

Could you tell us which versions of decals came with your kit? Cheers

Jure

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13 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said:

Hello

Mike, I followed that link you provided and I found a photo of 352 Kokutai aircraft option from my box. Her propeller blades do seem to be of a wider type so at least this option is confirmed. By the way, in the same Mushroom book I mentioned in my previous post there is a colour profile of production J2M2, not prototype, with three bladed propeller. Go figure ...

Another question: were there not only various editions of the same kit but also different kits of Raiden in 1/72 released by Hasegawa? In mine numbers of propeller parts are 8 and 12 while Denford in his OP mentioned 7 and 12. Any ideas? Cheers

Jure

Jure,

 

All of the 1/72 Hasegawa boxings of the Raiden were J2M3  versions so far as I know. I also seem to recall a NF version, with an oblique 20mm  cannon behind the cockpit, but I might be thinking of an aftermarket conversion- don't think Hasegawa did the NF as a "special" release, but I could be (and usually am!) mistaken.

Mike

 

I just found this short video on YouTube that shows J2M3's preparing for takeoff and taking off. Many look to have paddle blade props and I think are  302nd Flying Group Raidens. Thought you might find it interesting.

 

 

Edited by 72modeler
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 The L2D was a license built copy of the DC-3, however, it has longer cockpit windows and Japanese engines. Before the war, the Japanese acquired manufacturing rights to a number of products. The Zero"s Sumitomo propeller is a licensed from Hamilton Standard, the radios  from Fairchild, and the wing cannons are Oerlikon.

 By the way Atsugi Naval Air Base was located near Tokyo to the south west so paddle bladed props to intercept high flying B-29s makes sense.

 

Garry c

Edited by Garry c
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21 hours ago, Garry c said:

I just realized that there was several releases of this kit. My kit has a blue label and instructions in English.  Subjects 1 and 2 are 302nd Air Wing (Atsugi Base); tail numbers prefix ED (the E is reversed) tail numbers 153 and 1195.

Subject 3 is Tainan Air Wing, the Second; tail number prefix two characters in Japanese(vaguely resembling the number 7 and the letter T ) tail number 101.

 

Garry c

You seem to have the same set of instructions as I have: do they make any comments on the use of the two different types of propeller for the various subjects chosen, or indeed, any comments relating to the two different propeller types?

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1 hour ago, Denford said:
23 hours ago, Garry c said:

 

You seem to have the same set of instructions as I have: do they make any comments on the use of the two different types of propeller for the various subjects chosen, or indeed, any comments relating to the two different propeller types? 

The instructions on step #5 say "Fit either propeller 8 or 12."

 

 The painting instructions say Model Colors are numbered #1 - #62

"The both sides of the propeller were painted in dark brown, or blue black, with a yellow stripe on each blade tip."

Upper surface, #15 Dark green

Under surface, #35 Light grey

Antenna strut,  #41 Red brown

Exhaust pipe, #50 Rust

Leading edge, #58 Orange yellow

Pittot tube end, silver

Anti glare, #5+#33 Blue black at a ratio of 3:1

Wing tip light left, #47 Clear red

Wing tip light right, #50 Clear blue

The individual instructions for each:

 

1. 3D-153,  both sides of propeller blade #42 Mahogany, spinner also.

 

2. 3D-1195, propeller#42 Mahogany, Spinner #35 Dark green.

 

3.  __-101 propeller #42 Mahogany, spinner #35 Dark green

 

Apparently paint #35 is either Dark green or Light grey and #50 is either Rust or Clear blue.🤔

 

Garry c

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16 hours ago, Garry c said:

 The L2D was a license built copy of the DC-3

I think the Showa manufacturing corporation would prefer license-built rather than copy! Here's one I prepared earlier - note the strong resemblance to a DC-3.

[27076112267_aa9f630ebb_h.jpg

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Hello

Mike, I watched the video and, yes, most of Raidens do look like having wider blade propellers. Denford and Garry c, a browse through reference material resulted in this photo of Tainan air wing aircraft (the third option Hasegawa provided decals for), published in the old Burin-do book ...

j2m-1.jpg

... and reproduced here. Unfortunately I am not certain which type of propeller is on the picture, although I am leaning towards the narrow one. Cheers

Jure

 

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 Domo arigato gozaimasu ! Thank you!

I am thrilled to finally see a photo of one of the kit options.

It appears to have the starter crank handle inserted ready to go.

Definitely  the narrow blades(part #8?) they look dark and shiny,

perhaps the blades are Blue black? :worms:

Again, thank you Jure,

 

Garry c

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17 hours ago, Garry c said:

The instructions on step #5 say "Fit either propeller 8 or 12."

 

 The painting instructions say Model Colors are numbered #1 - #62

"The both sides of the propeller were painted in dark brown, or blue black, with a yellow stripe on each blade tip."

Upper surface, #15 Dark green

Under surface, #35 Light grey

Antenna strut,  #41 Red brown

Exhaust pipe, #50 Rust

Leading edge, #58 Orange yellow

Pittot tube end, silver

Anti glare, #5+#33 Blue black at a ratio of 3:1

Wing tip light left, #47 Clear red

Wing tip light right, #50 Clear blue

The individual instructions for each:

 

1. 3D-153,  both sides of propeller blade #42 Mahogany, spinner also.

 

2. 3D-1195, propeller#42 Mahogany, Spinner #35 Dark green.

 

3.  __-101 propeller #42 Mahogany, spinner #35 Dark green

 

Apparently paint #35 is either Dark green or Light grey and #50 is either Rust or Clear blue.🤔

 

Garry c

Thanks for this from me and anyone else who finds they have only Japanese instructions.

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Hello

Garry c, I am glad it helped. And I am attributing dark propeller colour to fresh varnish, excessive photo contrast or both. Anyone advancing into Raiden propeller colours territory does so at his or her own peril :D. Good kit though and it would make interesting weekend project. Cheers

Jure

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