The Real Color Debacle

[Plasto]

3 hours ago, tank152 said:

 

Could you explain what you mean by "Gun Wash lacquer thinners"?

Sure... It’s just cheap lacquer thinners I buy it by the 5 L can and use it for general painting and cleaning up thinning. The gun wash bit comes from my somewhat limited 1:1 car painting background which basically was a land Rover, Austin Healey Sprite and a fiat 500.  The motor factors sold a cheap thinner for cleaning out spray guns to keep your good thinners for the actual painting..

 

The stuff I use is similar, hotter than self leveling thinners which can be useful..

 

HTH...

[tank152]

4 minutes ago, Plasto said:

Sure... It’s just cheap lacquer thinners I buy it by the 5 L can and use it for general painting and cleaning up thinning. The gun wash bit comes from my somewhat limited 1:1 car painting background which basically was a land Rover, Austin Healey Sprite and a fiat 500.  The motor factors sold a cheap thinner for cleaning out spray guns to keep your good thinners for the actual painting..

 

The stuff I use is similar, hotter than self leveling thinners which can be useful..

 

HTH...

Thanks, obvious now that you've explained it. 👍

[azureglo]

6 hours ago, tank152 said:

You can also add Mr Paint to that list as well as Real Colour.

Could you explain what you mean by "Gun Wash lacquer thinners"?

This is a question that will get you many conflicting answers: a lot of vendors sell "Gun wash/thinner" in big 20-25lt drums. Other swear that gun wash is inferior and never to to be used for spraying... as the silent partner in a classic car restoration business, this is what they use for cleaning their guns ( and I pilfer for cleaning my airbrushes)

 

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/automotive/cleaners-and-polish/gunwash-25ltr/p/TET7324050B

 

And they use the gloss & standard  from here  for virtually all paint spraying ( again subject to checking I haven't had it away with the contents)

 

http://www.express-paints.co.uk/thinners-fade-out-panel-wipe/

 

I can say they all smell wildly different but having sprayed paint mules with gun thinner, it seems to be more "patchy" when dry . The second vendor swears all gun wash is just standard thinner and the guys who use it swear it isn't, go figure. The eagle eyed might have noticed the lechler hydrofan thinner and cleaners, if you use Stylnylres, that may be of interest...

 

I hope this adds to the general confusion 

 

Anil

[tank152]

2 hours ago, azureglo said:

This is a question that will get you many conflicting answers

 

I hope this add to the general confusion 

 

Anil

1, Which is why I prefer to try and work things out myself before asking anything on here.

2, Yes I reckon you'll have scored highly there!

 

[colin]

No confusion Anil, I've been using the gun wash thinner for years to clean out airbrushes, but tend to do the final one with IPA as I don't like to leave anything of the wash thinner inside the airbrush around the seals

Although the thinners evaporate quick it's just to be on the safe side really

5ltr lasts a long time, don't know where I could put 25ltrs

[Plasto]

Yep tbh Cheap lacquer thinners ( at least the stuff I buy) thins nicely and sprays well.  The Gunze self levelling stuff is less ‘hot’ and has a retarder in I think hence the ‘self levelling’ properties. If I want a gloss or semi gloss finish I will use this as the go to thinner. 

 

Like a lot of stuff in modelling there are widely differing views opinions and a lot of accepted ‘truths’.  My view is experiment find stuff that works for you and build and paint models that’s the ultimate teacher...

 

have fun..

[Simon V]

Since when don’t these work with Ultimate thinner? I’ve only got a couple, and I’ve not used them much, but had no trouble thinning it with UMP.

 

Incidentally, just how badly does MLT stink? It’s made out as the Holy Grail for airbrushing but I spray at the kitchen table without any proper ventilation and I just don’t think it’s a good idea. But then, I don’t do much spraying and wouldn’t use much ata y one time, so maybe it’s ok?

[colin]

3 hours ago, Simon V said:

Since when don’t these work with Ultimate thinner? I’ve only got a couple, and I’ve not used them much, but had no trouble thinning it with UMP.

 

Incidentally, just how badly does MLT stink? It’s made out as the Holy Grail for airbrushing but I spray at the kitchen table without any proper ventilation and I just don’t think it’s a good idea. But then, I don’t do much spraying and wouldn’t use much ata y one time, so maybe it’s ok?

UMP thinner is a Acrylic thinner, not best suited to Lacquer paints but ok with Mr Hobby/Tamiya, confusing part is these brands will also thin very nicely with cellulose thinners, but most other Acylics will turn to a lumpy mess when thinned with cellulose.

MLT stinks no worse than any other cellulose thinner, which to be honest is pretty bad.

You definitely don't want to be spraying on the kitchen table with lacquer paints or MLT

[Simon V]

I don’t think I’ve ever smelt a lacquer thinner. Are we talking similar to Tamiya acrylics, or like Enamels or oil thinners? That’s what I imagine.

 

I don’t have much choice about where I spray. I don’t have room for my own desk nevermind my own cave. I spray into a cardboard box. I guess I’ll just have to avoid MLT and suffer on with UMP!

[Steve Noble]

8 minutes ago, Simon V said:

I don’t think I’ve ever smelt a lacquer thinner. Are we talking similar to Tamiya acrylics, or like Enamels or oil thinners?

Much, much stronger smell. Very chemically based and heavy vapours. Quite unpleasant if breathed in...

[Simon V]

I’ll be steering well clear then.

 

back n topic though, I maintain that the couple of Real Colors I have work fine with UMP.

[Steve Noble]

2 minutes ago, Simon V said:

I’ll be steering well clear then.

 

back n topic though, I maintain that the couple of Real Colors I have work fine with UMP.

You must, in my opinion, have a decent set up, extractor fan, mask etc to spray the stronger paints such as lacquer and automotive acrylics like Zero paints and Gravity Colour. I wouldn't even consider using them without an extractor, I would imagine the fumes would build up very quickly and soon make you feel quite dizzy..

I've no experience of working with the Real Colours paint in question, although when I read up on them they appeared to be lacquer based type..

[Steve Noble]

Just had another read about Real Colours on their website and it says they can be thinned with their own dedicated thinner, lacquer thinner, alcohol and water!! I'm very confused as to what these paints are? Never seen a lacquer paints that can be thinned with water? Very odd..

[colin]

2 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

Just had another read about Real Colours on their website and it says they can be thinned with their own dedicated thinner, lacquer thinner, alcohol and water!! I'm very confused as to what these paints are? Never seen a lacquer paints that can be thinned with water? Very odd..

The water side is a mistake by AK, they wont thin with water

[Simon V]

Didn’t they used to call them an “Acrylic lacquer”? I’m aware that acrylic covers a multitude of sins, though.

 

i think Flory did a review of them where they used all sorts of thinners and they worked with all of them.

 

 

[colin]

14 minutes ago, Simon V said:

I’ll be steering well clear then.

 

back n topic though, I maintain that the couple of Real Colors I have work fine with UMP.

Please tell me your wearing a mask even with the set up your using, spraying into a box will stop the overspray, but you'll be getting a lot of blowback into your face.

[Simon V]

1 minute ago, colin said:

Please tell me your wearing a mask even with the set up your using, spraying into a box will stop the overspray, but you'll be getting a lot of blowback into your face.

Yea, I have a dust mask but not a full blown respirator. I know you can never be too careful but I get the airbrush out so rarely.

[colin]

3 minutes ago, Simon V said:

Didn’t they used to call them an “Acrylic lacquer”? I’m aware that acrylic covers a multitude of sins, though.

 

i think Flory did a review of them where they used all sorts of thinners and they worked with all of them.

 

 

Don't think he tried just water though, they seem very similar in make up to Tamiya x/xf range, they also wont thin with just water

[Simon V]

4 minutes ago, colin said:

Don't think he tried just water though, they seem very similar in make up to Tamiya x/xf range, they also wont thin with just water

Possibly not, it was a while ago that I watched it.

 

tbh though, I wouldn’t ever expect anything to thin with water. I know some do, but I’d personally probably never try. I was more surprised that people are having issues with UMP and similar.

[Steve Noble]

I initially thought they were a similar product to Mr Color? But I know that Mr Color would not thin with water. Crikey, they must be some kind of Frankenstein paint or something!!

[Simon V]

I’m no expert, but I find them pretty similar to Tamiya XF, which are apparently similar to Mr Hobby aqueous (again, never tirednthem but I do have some for my next project).

[Steve Noble]

Just now, Simon V said:

I’m no expert, but I find them pretty similar to Tamiya XF, which are apparently similar to Mr Hobby aqueous (again, never tirednthem but I do have some for my next project).

Well I could understand that as Tamiya will thin with lacquer thinner, alcohol and water. Although I never thin them with plain water..

[colin]

10 minutes ago, Simon V said:

Possibly not, it was a while ago that I watched it.

 

tbh though, I wouldn’t ever expect anything to thin with water. I know some do, but I’d personally probably never try. I was more surprised that people are having issues with UMP and similar.

Vallejo thin very nice with water and spray very well, only problem comes when you mask over then and then remove the mask complete with the paint.I only ever use them for brush painting small details

[tank152]

42 minutes ago, Simon V said:

I’m no expert, but I find them pretty similar to Tamiya XF, which are apparently similar to Mr Hobby aqueous (again, never tirednthem but I do have some for my next project).

Yes, same here, i've used a fair few colours now and never had a problem with any of them. In fact I used some RC only yesterday to spray a Hanomag i'm building.

 

 I normally use MLT to thin them with however yesterday I used Tamiya X20a to thin them as I sprayed them over a layer of hairspray and I find paint easier to chip using the latter to thin.

This Toons Tiger was also sprayed with RC.

I'll certainly be investing in some of the Air range when they are released to compliment my Mr Paint.

[Gav G]

On 12/6/2018 at 8:22 AM, tank152 said:

AK can hardly be blamed that you foolishly poured untested thinners blindly into 8 new jars of paint without at least testing first. You've got all the information here in this thread to use these paints should you decide to take it on board.

Do you work for eBay customer services by any chance?

 

If you'd have bothered to read the many other posts where he said AK had told him it would be OK and then they completely ignored him (including deleting the YouTube video and the associated comments where they stated this) then you might not come across so poorly.