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Is the identity of this RNZAF Harvard known?


Stanhauser

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The RNZAF never used the "th" terms, more an Americanism

 

This Harvard actually served with 2 (F) OTU - 2 (Fighter) Operational Training Unit, based at RNZAF Base Ohakea here in New Zealand

 

I have searched through all my Sources and sorry nothing on the actual serial

 

Might I suggest you contact the RNZAF Museum and ask them the question?

RNZAF Museum Queries

 

Additional 2 (F) OTU Info that might interest you?

This line up at Ohakea has FE-G in it - note the RNZAF P40E-1 advanced trainers behind them

2 (F) OTU Harvard's

 

Some other 2 (F) OTU Harvard's that you might like/consider (where you can see a serial number)

 

Other 2 (F) OTU Harvard's

Other 2 (F) OTU Harvard's

2 (F) OTU Harvard flight

 

Regards

 

Alan


 

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5 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

Would these have still been DG/DE uppers Alan or the later (?) DG/Pacific Blue uppers, I think I've got my terminology right. I'm not sure when this scheme came in.

Steve.

Hi Steve,

 

In the first photo of the aircraft line (Harvard's and P40's), I would say RAF TLS (DG/DE)

 

In the second set I would go with the RNZAF Pacific Scheme (NZ Green/NZ Sea Blue Grey) uppers /Duck Egg Blue (aka Sky) lower.

The reason I say this is the scalloping along the demarcation between upper camo and lower colour.

When the first batch of RNZAF P40K's (in RAF TLS) were being readied for deployment to the Islands, they were re-painted in

the RNZAF Pacific Scheme, and had similar scalloped edging.

 

The RNZAF Pacific Scheme is a really nice camouflage scheme.

 

Regards

 

Alan

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Hi peeps,

this RNZAF Pacific Scheme is news to me, you really do live & learn. Are there any proprietary or equivalent paints available or is it a case of mixing, if so what are the mixes?

cheers,

spad

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2 hours ago, spaddad said:

Hi peeps,

this RNZAF Pacific Scheme is news to me, you really do live & learn. Are there any proprietary or equivalent paints available or is it a case of mixing, if so what are the mixes?

cheers,

spad

Hi Spad

 

If you click on the link below, is a P40 under restoration at the RNZAF Museum,  the photo (given the lighting) shows

off really well the NZ Green and NZ Sea Blue Grey.

The lower colour is Duck Egg Blue (aka Sky - generally the US applied paint)

 

RNZAF Museum P 40

 

Colourwise Humbrol 144 is a good match for the NZ Sea Blue Grey.

NZ Green is a little more hard, as I currently don't have an equivalent (Yet)

Duck Egg Blue aka Sky - Humbrol 23 would be close to the Curtiss paints - Nothing at present for NZ Duck Egg Blue

 

RNZAF Pacific Scheme was worn by Hudson's, P 40's, both in New Zealand and in Combat areas,

in New Zealand by RNZAF Harvard's (at least) later on.

 

The Hudson in this photo link is in the Pacific Scheme

RNZAF Hudson

 

These RNZAF P 40K's have had the Pacific Scheme applied over the upper TLS they arrived in,

prior to departure to the Operational Combat areas

RNZAF 40K's

 

Regards

 

Alan

Edited by LDSModeller
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Thanks for that Alan, I've always been a bit vague about NZ Sea Blue Grey, I do have a recollection of seeing it compared to PRU Blue quite favourably, not sure where, maybe Peter Mossong's website or one of the Russell books, I wouldn't like to trust it to my tin of Hu 144, too grey to my eye but other tins might do better. :unsure:

Steve.

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16 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

The RNZAF Pacific Scheme is a really nice camouflage scheme.

🧐

13 hours ago, spaddad said:

 

Hi peeps,

this RNZAF Pacific Scheme is news to me,

 

Ditto Ive never heard of this ? Does anyone have a color chip or profile to help me visualize ? Its hard to guage on the B&W photos. 

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8 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

🧐

Ditto Ive never heard of this ? Does anyone have a color chip or profile to help me visualize ? Its hard to guage on the B&W photos. 

As I have said before, Not everything about the WWII RNZAF is on the Internet, and because folks from

other Geographical areas keep telling we Kiwi's what our Air Force did or didn't look like, we're not

exactly forthcoming about such things. And as more research is done with records from the RNZAF

these things come to light.

 

Just Bear in Mind NOT All RNZAF aircraft in the Pacific Theatre wore this scheme. Back in New Zealand

it was more prevalent.

Only the initial batch of P 40K's wore this, all the other P 40 shipments (K's/M's/N's) wore

standard USAAF OD/NG, along with other aircraft in USN Navy colours (Corsairs/TBF's etc)

 

It started making an appearance around late 1941 with Hudson's being repainted with the

Pacific Scheme over the original RAF TLS they arrived in as in this Profile from the RNZAF Museum

Note also the change in Roundels from Pre War

 

Note also the NZ Pacific Green is a lighter shade, and not a Dark Green perse

RNZAF Hudson Pacific Scheme Profile

 

As I posted earlier the RNZAF Museum restored a P 40 in this scheme, so what you see in the

photo are the correct colours (albeit modern versions)

 

RNZAF Museum P 40 in Pacific Scheme

 

Edit - Further to my comments, see the link below and see a RNZAF P 40K (long tail) in

lower photo - notice "scalloped" edges between upper/lower camo - apologies for grainy

photo, but you can see the "Pacific Scheme" (lighter/darker colours) readily enough

 

RNZAF P40K in Pacific Scheme in Operational Area

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

Edited by LDSModeller
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On 5/10/2018 at 10:32 AM, Teuchter said:

Looking at the line up posted by LDSModeller, there appears to be both a Harvard and a P40 coded FE-A. Is this usual in OTUs?

Don

Hi Don,

 

Just heard from our Expert at the RNZAF Museum. It would appear it's an anomaly (at least) for that OTU,

for both the Harvard and P40E-1 to wear same codes. Not sure the of the why-fores.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

 

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On 5/6/2018 at 9:23 AM, LDSModeller said:

As I posted earlier the RNZAF Museum restored a P 40 in this scheme, so what you see in the

photo are the correct colours (albeit modern versions)

 

RNZAF Museum P 40 in Pacific Scheme

Regrettably someone at the museum - unfortunately I forget who - decided on a "generic" OD over NG scheme for the P-40F restoration and gave it the representative serial NZ3000 as the original airframe has no NZ provenance and isn't a real P-40E. The Pacific Scheme was removed/replaced, much to my disappointment as there aren't any P-40s anywhere in that scheme. I spoke with someone at Wigram and he said they weren't able to identify the serial and code combination used on the Pacific Scheme photo they used as a model, and that helped swing the decision in favour of the OD/NG.

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15 hours ago, k5054nz said:

Regrettably someone at the museum - unfortunately I forget who - decided on a "generic" OD over NG scheme for the P-40F restoration and gave it the representative serial NZ3000 as the original airframe has no NZ provenance and isn't a real P-40E. The Pacific Scheme was removed/replaced, much to my disappointment as there aren't any P-40s anywhere in that scheme. I spoke with someone at Wigram and he said they weren't able to identify the serial and code combination used on the Pacific Scheme photo they used as a model, and that helped swing the decision in favour of the OD/NG.

Hi Zac,

 

Yes the "restored" P 40.

I believe it is (was) a  P 40F, a model never flown by the RNZAF, which then was, supposed be converted to be an E-1

as flown by the RNZAF (after reading that, try saying that fast, 3 times:D).

Interestingly the surviving E-1's in New Zealand would more likely have worn the Pacific Scheme  as opposed to Olive Drab/Neutral Grey,

which RNZAF P40E-1's never wore ever.

The closest scheme to that, would have been re-paints circa 1944 in Foliage Green/Sky Grey.

 

I saw the change over of the paint scheme, at least we have some pictorial evidence of the Pacific Scheme. If they wanted a

"Representative P40" why not go for a  early"K" which we know Serials for, that wore the Pacific Scheme?

 

Regards

 

Alan

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