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Started a new one this morning, Takom's Tiran 4 but in IDF colors.

 

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Hey Lloyd, so you are back, yet with another Takome kit :D and a beauty of a T-54 sort of tank. :thumbsup2:

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Posted (edited)

Hi Soeren

 

Yes it's a sort of T-54, always wanted to do one.  There are 2 gun barrels in the kit, one with a fume extractor at the muzzle end and the other with it in the middle. The

instructions don't say which is right for an IDF T-54, got any idea? I think ne is a 100mm and the other is a 105mm but which is which and when were they used? I think

the one with the extractor at the muzzle is right but not sure.

 

Lloyd

Edited by BlackMax12

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Posted (edited)

Hi Lloyd. I'm going to follow how you get on with this as I have the same kit. Although you have the choice of both types of main gun, Takom only give you the option to use the one with the original Soviet gun. As far as I am aware, the Israelis removed the Soviet 100mm, and replaced it with the L7 105mm. When they'd finished with them, and passedthem on to the Lebanese, they removed the 105's and put the original guns back. I believe that they did the same with the Tiran 5's.

There are some nice touches with this kit which gives it an advantage over the Tamiya Tiran 5, such as the fuel lines. Good luck with it.

 

John.

Edited by Bullbasket

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Looking forward to seeing this one in progress. :popcorn:

Kind regards,

Stix

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Posted (edited)

I would be cautious about IDF livery with the 100mm gun.  The "late" version retaining the 100mm D-10TG gun was certainly used by SLA, as depicted on the Takom box: SLA had no 105mm Tirans.  In IDF service the "late" Tiran 4 (and 5) was almost always seen with the 105mm M68 gun (4Sh).  Indeed "early" Tirans fitted with the M68 gun appear to be more common than "late" ones retaining the D-10.

 

I have Samer Kassis' book on the Tiran and the only IDF-liveried "late" Tirans still with the D-10 gun I can see in there are ones used to train SLA crews, which are almost certainly the same ones built for them and later given to them.  It would have been pointless to train them on a different gun.  I don't believe they were converted from 100 to 105mm and then converted back.  I recall reading that a batch of "late" 100mm conversions were made specifically for SLA.

 

If you really want to do a guaranteed IDF version, use the 105mm barrel (can in the middle) provided or get hold of the RB aluminium and brass one.

 

Having said all this, and proving the old IDF modelling adage of "never say never" I discovered on Saturday that the T-54 in the VCC at Bovington is actually a Tiran 4.  Not only that, but it still has the smooth gun barrel and spider wheels but yet has evidence of the "late" modifications such as turret bins - sadly all now removed.  A configuration I would have said was highly improbable, yet clearly existed.  Looked to be Syrian paint and markings under the Sand Grey.  Syria was an early T-54 customer, 1957, for which that very early build configuration fits.  They also received large mixed bags of 2nd hand T-54s to replace '67 and '73 losses.  Egypt didn't get any T-54s until 1961, by which time the fume extractor and starfish wheels would have been the build standard.

Edited by Das Abteilung
correction

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Thanks guys.

 

Since I want to build it as an IDF unit not the SLA version as on the box then I guess I use the M68 gun with the extractor in the middle.

 

Here it is this morning with one set of tracks in place.  The tracks are actually pretty easy but not workable and look fairly good. The instructions call for 92

links per side but it actually requires 93 to give a decent sag. They are just clipped onto the sprocket for now to be able to remove for paint. Someone on this

forum mentioned that and it's a great idea, wonder why I never thought of it?

 

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In my limited experience of non-flexible indy link tracks I certainly found it easier to make up lengths - effectively replicating the link-and-length concept - attached after painting. 

 

Sprockets are the issue because of the teeth, and I ended up with joins between lengths at the backs of the sprockets, easily disguised with a bit of mud, dust, etc.  The teeth locate the join positively.  It would be possible to attach just the few links to the sprockets and paint in situ (most of the inside faces can't be seen) and attach the rest after painting.  In ether case, leave the sprockets unglued until the tracks are attached - if not too late - to help fitting. 

 

On the last one I made with this type of track I ended up with 4 assembled track sections.  A top run including the top half around the sprocket, a lower rear section including the bottom half around the sprocket, a front section around the idler and a bottom run.

 

You can get shaped aluminium jigs for making up track runs off the vehicle, but unless you're planning lots of the same type of vehicle they seem like very poor value for money to me.  I suppose 2nd hand on eBay once used: one careful owner.  There is also at least one jig available for assembling links into straight runs without kinks.  The same company also makes a companion jig for ensuring that wheels are all correctly aligned.

 

With flexible/workable plastic links you have a different issue.  When you shape them around the sprocket and idler you get unpainted/un-weathered plastic showing, needing touching-up.  If you have deep enough pockets to afford metal links and chemically blacken them then this is less of an issue.

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Hi Das

 

I find making the tracks in a top length and forming it around the idler and partially around the sprocket and a bottom length that I glue together below the idler then join both at 

the sprocket so the teeth hold them together is the best approach for me. I don't glue them together at the sprocket so I can remove them for paint.

I like the workable indy links like some Mengs and the Rye Field kits I've built but they are a terrible lot of work and really only look best on

something like WWII German AFVs so they have the normal sag. They are a waste on something like an Abrams where two thirds of the run is hidden behind the skirts.

 

I have only ever bought one set of Friulmodel tracks and that was for a Panther.  While they look awesome and are fairly easy to assemble I

find the Cdn$75-80 per set just a bit too much. I tried one set of Model Kasten and they weren't bad or too terribly expensive but still quite a bit 

or work with all of the dinky little pins, two per link and different length pins.  I'd like to see something like the Trumpeter 1/16 scale links

used on the T-34s and SU-100 as they just snap together and are workable.  Too much to hope for in 1/35 probably but I can build a set of 

1/16 T-34 tracks in about 15 minutes and I love that.  It took me about 4 hours to do these two runs on this T-54 and I don't love that........

 

Oh yes the 960 piece Rye Field tracks on their Abrams took about two days and I built two of their Abrams, sucker for punishment I guess.

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

 

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Posted (edited)

Tonight it has two tracks and a fender and a half.  That's all for today.

The right side fender has the fuel tanks and plumbing so that's a tomorrow job.

 

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Edited by BlackMax12

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Nice steady progress Lloyd. At least I managed to get back to look before you've finished this time.:frantic:

Kind regards,

Stix 

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Hi Stix

 

Took a day off today and probably miss tomorrow too so you're not late to the party.  This is an interesting kit with lots of small details

to add yet so it will be a bit before it's finished.

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

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That's the mass production. 

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Posted (edited)

Made a little more progress on this, hard to get motivated lately.

 

Here it is in black primer with IDF green/grey to follow eventually.  It's a nice model, lots of detail and pretty straight forward assembly.

 

Sure is a small tank compared to a Leopard 2A7 or the huge Abrams M1A1.

 

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Edited by BlackMax12

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The comparison photos make them appear to be different scales. Nice going with the build Lloyd. Any pitfalls to look out for? I'm assuming that these weren't fitted with the deep wading frame as per the Tiran 5?

 

John.

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Posted (edited)

Hi John

 

It's a pretty simple build but lots and lots of detail, small add-on parts that look good and the tracks turned out great. They give you 2 choices for the

main gun so I used the M68 105mm. They give you a complete rear deck and the corresponding photo etch grilles for it. I didn't know which to use so I

went with the one in the instruction manual whether it's right for an IDF unit or not. I also liked the separate tires and wheels, no painting templates required.

I didn't see any provisions for wading so this must be a dry land version only.

 

The turrets on the Leo and the Abrams are almost as big as the entire Tiran so it must be pretty cramped inside the little guy. Imagine it must be

pretty warm in there with the Mid East sunshine.

 

BTW all 3 are 1/35 scale.

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

Edited by BlackMax12

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Here is the little guy this morning in basic IDF grey/green.

 

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Thanks Phil

 

A ways to go yet but at least it now shows some of the detail the black had hidden.

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

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You don't hang about do ya Lloyd great job so far, I've been messing about outside for a while with all the snow we had this winter had to get out of the house

 

Regards

Richard

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Great progress Lloyd. Looking very smart! :thumbsup:

Kind regards,

Stix

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Thanks Richard

 

Thanks Stix

 

Here I was thinking I was going really slow on this one, after all it's been 11 days and still not finished.

 

Spring is sprung and hard to get model oriented with the yard cleanup and "honey-do" jobs that pile up over the winter.

 

Oh yes, NHL Playoff hockey every night for the last two weeks doesn't help either. Still at least 2 more weeks to go for that, Go Winnipeg Jets😁

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

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36 minutes ago, BlackMax12 said:

Thanks Richard

 

Thanks Stix

 

Here I was thinking I was going really slow on this one, after all it's been 11 days and still not finished.

 

Spring is sprung and hard to get model oriented with the yard cleanup and "honey-do" jobs that pile up over the winter.

 

Oh yes, NHL Playoff hockey every night for the last two weeks doesn't help either. Still at least 2 more weeks to go for that, Go Winnipeg Jets😁

 

Take care,

 

Lloyd

 

I know what you mean with "honey to do list" never ending 😁 and totally agree with "go Jets go" what a great game the other night.

 

Regards

Richard

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Thanks Snapper

 

Here it is with some brown and black washes.  Still needs some dust and dirt and a few touch ups.  Thought I had some IDF decals left over

from that Gal Batash but must have misplaced them so this one has no markings, Mr. Anonymous.

 

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