A Humbrol Curiosity - the paint that never was

[Graham Boak]

I'm not sure, perhaps Ratch will clarify, but although the original 6 to a set Authentics were good to excellent, I suspect that the later release of the Authentics as a range of  single tins  was where the quality dropped.  But any comparison between the later colours and any Luftwaffe colour chart (or competitor paints) will make it quite clear where old Humbrol got it wrong.

[Mr T]

It was the same with some of the RAF colours, although some of the Authentics were a bit iffy like Azure Blue. 

[Ratch]

You're going back now Graham. I never had the sets, only the individual tinlets. I remember that 30 was once considered a good match to RAF Dark Green, then the quality drifted away and HB.1 was the better thing. A few years back Humbrol was again claiming that 30 was a match for RAFDG. As we all know, manufacturers have a habit of changing their formulations without warning. Either because of cost or the unavailability of elements (because of one thing or another) and the paint doesn't seem as good as it was. The new acrylic Luftwaffe colours are quite good matches by my reckoning, I don't know if the enamels are the same. The only thing I've found is that the paints seem grainy and don't like my airbrush, which it a pity.

[fightersweep]

Interesting to hear the comments about the old Humbrol Authentic sets. I managed to pick up all of the aircraft related sets a few years ago on eBay. They're all complete and unopened, and I've never wanted to start using them as I viewed them as being a bit collectible. However, on hearing Graham's observations, I'm half tempted to crack them open and use them as Humbrol intended!

 

There was quite a long thread on the new Humbrol Luftwaffe enamels here a few years back. My opinion was that they would be fantastic paints if they actually had some pigment in them! I don't know if they've improved, but the initial batch I purchased were very translucent to the point of being unusable.

 

Steve

Edited May 1, 2018 by fightersweep

[lasermonkey]

When I painted out some swatches with the new Humbrol Luftwaffe colours I also found them disturbingly translucent. I've been told that they are much better when sprayed, but I've yet to try it.

Luckily, there's at least one company in the UK that can still make decent enamels, right @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies ?! 🙂

 

I think that some of my first Humbrol Authentics were bought for a Matchbox Bf 109E in desert colours. That would have been 1980/81 and that tin of RLM 78 is still useable!

[Graham Boak]

I've never had a tin of 30 that was ever a match for RAF Dark Green.  I've seen it claimed, but it was never that way in my experience.  Yes, HB1 was considered far better.  I still use a lot of Humbrol because I have stocks of it, it is readily available for specific colours, it serves as an excellent undercoat; but for specific camouflage shades (ie top coats) I look elsewhere.

 

I might take fightersweep up on that offer of number 11.

[degsye39]

While i wouldn't touch newer tins of humbrol 11 with a bargepole, the older stuff really is a marvel  looks like mercury in the tin 😮

 

 

[John]

On 4/29/2018 at 10:23 PM, stringbag said:

Do you remember the little tubes of Humbrol flatting agent that were available in the 70s.  Most of my models of that period had the flatting agent added to the nearest shade of gloss. Couldn't afford the correct paints in those days, just had to make do.

Chris.

Yes, I do - now that you mention it!

 

My dad was a pattern maker with Allied Ironfounders so he was well used to making things and had quite a selection of gloss tinlets that he kept in a shoebox in one of the kitchen cupboards. Never matt, for some reason. He didn't thin the paint either, just a judicious stirring. Looking back, a lot of things in the house were painted or repainted in Humbrol enamels! He's the one at the back in this photo with his colleague Tom Park, working on patterns for Raeburn stoves in Falkirk Foundry in the early 1960s:

 

dadfoundry by John Walker, on Flickr

 

By the time I was old enough to take an interest in painting my models - by no means compulsory in my earlier years - I was usually banished to the garden shed or if it was too cold to the kitchen table swathed in layers of newspaper and bloodcurdling threats of what would happen if any paint got somewhere it wasn't supposed to...

 

No doubt that I got my fascination for making things from him.

 

J

[John]

7 hours ago, Ratch said:

Practically all of the old Humbrol Authentics (many of which were repeated) were absorbed into the standard Humbrol range. The only old Authentics I haven't found a definitive match for are:

HD.2 Cockpit Colours Bright Green

HR.217 Rail Steel

HU.15 U.S.A.F. Navy & Marine Contemporary Blue F.S. 35109

MC.20 Military Equipment British Equipment Grey

MC.21 Military Equipment French Artillery Green

SW3 Swedish Contemporary Black 093M

HG.15 Authentic RLM 61

Open to suggestions

French Artillery Green was briefly in the standard range as 179, I have a tin somewhere.

 

John

[JosephLalor]

36 minutes ago, degsye39 said:

While i wouldn't touch newer tins of humbrol 11 with a bargepole, the older stuff really is a marvel  looks like mercury in the tin 😮

 

 

Humbrol's metallics are now very strange indeed.  Matt paint with metalflakes.

 

I remember Humbrol Authentic HS217 as being relatively lustreless, certainly compared with HB14.  Now there was a silver paint!  1980s Humbrol 56 seemed to me to be the closest to HS217.

[degsye39]

The current pots of humbrol golds/silver im working with these stay on the bench full time 

 

 

Im always picking up motley boxes like these off of ebay! i cant resist tbf! 

 

 

Cheers D.

[John]

One area where older paints score over more modern ones are intense blues - you just don't seem to get strong blues these days.

 

J

[Rabbit Leader]

Even today, the instructions that come with all the DK decal sheets all list Humbrol 122 as a match for RAF / RAAF Sky Blue, although I haven’t come across this paint for years. I’ve now moved on to Gunze paints however would be keen to see what Hu122 looks like. Anyone got an opened tin or a paint swatch? 

 

Cheers.. Dave

[Graeme H]

All this nostalgia about the Authentics range got me looking at my old stock, I still have a few of some of them, but nothing that would make up a set anymore, and threw away the boxes,  D'oh

I do still have 2 sets of German Railway Authentics in their box though.

 

I have to agree with everyone, the new stuff is not for brushing even touch ups or tiny little bits on knobs etc in a cockpit, it just must be sprayed to get a decent coat.

 

Would love to hear from the brush painters like @tonyot

[John]

8 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Even today, the instructions that come with all the DK decal sheets all list Humbrol 122 as a match for RAF / RAAF Sky Blue, although I haven’t come across this paint for years. I’ve now moved on to Gunze paints however would be keen to see what Hu122 looks like. Anyone got an opened tin or a paint swatch? 

 

Cheers.. Dave

I'll get a daylight swatch asap.

 

P1020032 by John Walker, on Flickr

 

J

[Rabbit Leader]

2 minutes ago, John said:

I'll get a daylight swatch asap.

Wow - that was quick! 

Thanks John - no rush, but I’d appreciate that.

 

Cheers.. Dave

[dogsbody]

My collection of Authentics. From left to right: Regia Aeronautica colours; Luftwaffe colours; RAF colours; German Army colours; other various paints.

 

 

 

And some boxed lots:

 

 

 

Chris

 

 

[sapperastro]

The new new Humbrol enamels I can 'usually' get a good finish out of with a brush. They are uniformly thick, and must be stirred thoroughly and, most importantly, thinned a little with a good enamel thinner. Missing either step causes failure most of the time. Even then, I still get matting agent 'tide marks' though these usually varnish during the late varnishing steps.

 

To be honest, unless I cannot find an alternate colour to my liking, I just use Colourcoats, Tamiya enamel or Revell Aqua with the odd model master acrylic thrown in. I can trust all of these brands to be excellent from the start without any of the 'I hope this tin is a good one' anxiety.

 

Fightersweep: Matchbox kits like the 1/76 Charb and Humber, Many of the other matchbox armour kits have been released by Revell, but some are damn hard to find or were never ported across to Revell. Any of the aircraft kits usuually good really. I know they are simple, but they are an incredibly simple, usually very well fitting kit to put together and paint up. And the matchbox aircraft stands are my favourite out of any I have used that I didn't have to make myself.

[fightersweep]

11 hours ago, lasermonkey said:

Luckily, there's at least one company in the UK that can still make decent enamels, right @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies ?! 🙂

I'm glad you reminded me. I need more Colourcoats in my life. Excellent paints which leave me wondering why I just don't ditch all my Humbrols and use Jamie's products instead. I'm off to the website to buy more now!

[John]

5 hours ago, sapperastro said:

The new new Humbrol enamels I can 'usually' get a good finish out of with a brush. They are uniformly thick, and must be stirred thoroughly and, most importantly, thinned a little with a good enamel thinner. Missing either step causes failure most of the time. Even then, I still get matting agent 'tide marks' though these usually varnish during the late varnishing steps.

 

To be honest, unless I cannot find an alternate colour to my liking, I just use Colourcoats, Tamiya enamel or Revell Aqua with the odd model master acrylic thrown in. I can trust all of these brands to be excellent from the start without any of the 'I hope this tin is a good one' anxiety.

 

Fightersweep: Matchbox kits like the 1/76 Charb and Humber, Many of the other matchbox armour kits have been released by Revell, but some are damn hard to find or were never ported across to Revell. Any of the aircraft kits usuually good really. I know they are simple, but they are an incredibly simple, usually very well fitting kit to put together and paint up. And the matchbox aircraft stands are my favourite out of any I have used that I didn't have to make myself.

To be fair to Rustins I do think they took a bit of time to hit their stride with the Humbrol contract but by and large the recent tins I've bought have been fine. The one major exception was a brand new tin of 58 Magenta, bought just after it was released, which was solid. It seems there had been a pin hole in the lid, but there's not a great deal they could have done about that.

 

It's also worth noting that the current Humbrol enamel thinner is *very* hot!

 

John

[fightersweep]

29 minutes ago, John said:

 

It's also worth noting that the current Humbrol enamel thinner is *very* hot!

 

John

 

Had a strange one the other day. Started mixing in some thinners to some Humbrol Gloss 14 when the paint started going sort of stringy and thick. Not the usual reaction to adding thinners! So I ditched that, used some cheapo White Spirit instead, and it was as right as rain! Very odd. The Humbrol thinners came out of a trade box I picked up, probably 1990s or so, but it's been fine with everything else, except that Gloss 14 (blue stripe tin). 

 

Steve

[Rabbit Leader]

I’m currently experimenting with all my tins and bottles of what I thought was RAF Sky. Between the Tamiya XF-21, Gunze C368, Mr Paint 118 and two very old tins of Humbrol 90 and HB5 Sky Type ‘S’, both the latter Humbrol paints are much closer with my calibrated eye to any of the other brands. I’ve thinned these old Humbrols with fairly new Humbrol thinners and they spray very nicely indeed. 

 

Anyway - it’s quite an interesting experiment and has really opened my eyes to suggest that these old tins of paint might not be as worthless as I first thought. 

 

Cheers.. Dave

[John]

Humbrol 122 against FS595:

 

1222 by John Walker, on Flickr

 

122 is supposed to be 35622 and it's pretty close. Use whatever you can find locally that matches 35622 and you'll be comfortably in the ball-park.

 

John