Seahawk wheel wells: what colour?

[RobertF]

Hello all,

 

I'm preparing a little Seahawk project and am wondering what colour the wheel wells were in. The Trumpeter instructions mention silver and I expect them to mean aluminium/silver paint as I can't imagine the ribs, plating etc. having been left in NMF, bearing in mind that these aircraft operated in high saliniity air.

 

But I have also seen Seahawks in museums with all the wheel wells painted Sky. And although I know that museums do sometimes permit themselves some artistic licence (and easy maintenance), this was enough to get me doubting.

 

Any thoughts on this would be welcome! 

 

Robert

[Chewbacca]

I'd be interested in the answer to this as well.  Currently doing the Trumpeter kit and the only colour photos I can find of the undercarriage are all museum shots.

 

Most of the research I found suggested that they should be sky, but that could be based on the restored aircraft.

[canberra kid]

I would go with Sky, I think that's what the ones at the FAA museum are painted?

John

[RobertF]

8 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

.... sky, but that could be based on the restored aircraft....

My point exactly!

The Classic Airframes instruction sheet leaves this question open: "Wheel well interiors should be painted in the underside color of the aircraft you are modeling, or finished in Flat Aluminum"(note: this is a quote, hence the American spelling 😉),  while the Trumpeter instructions only mention "silver" and the museum aircraft I've seen all have their wheel wells in Sky.

 

So, is there some definite answer to this or shall I apply some artistic licence of my own (which I'd rather not)?

 

Robert

[junglierating]

Hmm its been a while but back in 89 I was QM Seahawk....it was on Historic flight and I was on Heron flight but we kinda all helped out ....it was run by matelots then.Anyway I always thought they were off white wheel wells but that was then and I guess aslong as the surface was protected i would imagine that the fine points of the aircraft topic 6 were in some areas loosly adheard to.

Of course that could not happen nowadays.Not to say we were cowboys but things are different now.

I think its laid up some where in South dispersal  at Yeovilton...I really should find an excuse to go over there

 

[canberra kid]

I've just been looking through the photos I took at the FAA museum, although I did take one of a Sea Hawk it was on the Carrier Deck exhibit so not of much use as it's as black as hell in there. The ones I took in the main hall of aircraft that were contemporary to the Sea Hawk have Sky bay's and doors, U/C leg's with aluminium wheel hubs. The only thing I can make out from my Sea Hawk phoyo is the nose leg is Sky. 

 

John  

[bzn20]

They (Ex FAA ) were painted Aluminium Silver inside of the doors and wheel bay structure, wing internals too,wing fold joint etc. . It was thick and rock hard, must have been baked on for corrosion control in a salt heavy atmosphere . Worked on them in training at RAF Halton after they came out of storage to replace some of the Hunters that were sold to the Swiss and Jordanians 1971.

[bzn20]

I'll add that ours were painted Black , Fuselage ,wings, tail, everything . Could have been for storage ,All the castle nuts, split pins and bolt heads were caked, couldn't make out the split pins and had to dig through it to find them, the threads were invisible because of the paint. Needed Gorilla's Biceps to shift them. It couldn't been in service like that so maybe the whole paint job was for storage anti deterioration .

[canberra kid]

I've been looking through the other Sea Hawk photos I have, most in black and white, I know the dangers of trying to interpret colours from B&W but to me with a few exceptions appear to be the same as the underside colour, one thing I have noted though, is some aircraft appear to have black wheel wells nose and main, but still with Sky doors and legs. I have found one colour photo of a Sse Hawk at Newark air museum with aluminium gear. Two unrestored Sea Hawks. 

   John

[bzn20]

Judging by all the different paint jobs I reckon its take your pick time. It doesn't look like 115 above has been played with paint wise since it was dumped there . I'd take it that's how it was in service , nobody is going to shoot you for using that as an example .

[Courageous]

...who looks at the underneath of your models anyway? 

[tempestfan]

I painted mine Sky, and think I took a lot of looks at the pics available to me back then, more than 20 years ago. As the wheel doors are usually shut on the ground, the wheel bay is shaded and therefore impossible to tell on most pics. Of course, if you pick one of the later schemes with white undersides, white may also be an option. If I find the time I'll take a look into the F40 (which was one of my main ref's then) and 4+ booklets if they have clear period shots - though the F40 is on the Marineflieger ones, which adds a bit more uncertainty.

[Chewbacca]

12 hours ago, Courageous said:

...who looks at the underneath of your models anyway? 

I must confess that part of me does feel like that at times.  Then the other part of me says that I will know it is wrong.  Like the time I scratch built the entire interior on an Airfix Jetstream converted to the T2 that I flew on my final air test based on the drawings in the Topic 15 that I still had in my come in handy one day box, only to find once I'd buttoned up the fuselage that because the windows were so thick and there was so little light in there that you couldn't see any of it...  But I know its there!

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

13 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

t based on the drawings in the Topic 15 that I still had in my come in handy one day box,

Having just seen the empty shell inside the A Model Jetstream T2..any chance of a look please?

 

Strange lot we modellers. I rarely go overboard with wheel wells as they will never be seen and then I detail the insides which will never be seen!

Must be a syndrome.

[Seahawk]

The 4+ book on the Sea Hawk says "Undercarriage legs were white or silver while wheel disks were painted in aluminium.  The undercarriage wheel wells and inner sides of their doors were painted in Sky but later in service may have been repainted in white, light grey or aluminium."

 

From colour photos in the same book (p.19) it looks as if the preserved Dutch example has all undercarriage legs, gear door interiors and main wheel bays in sky but nose bay interior in aluminium.  A B/W photo suggests the inside of the nosewheel door is in aluminium as well.

 

[RobertF]

Thanks for all the replies chaps, much appreciated! It's both good and curious to see a question which seemed to be so simple and straightforward trigger several possible solutions and some of the more general considerations that we modellers have to "cope" with.

 

I share Chewbacca's sentiment: I want to do the job as best and historically accurate as possible, not so much because of other people's comments (not much chance of running into the world's expert - if existing - on the matter anyway), or because the end result will be highly visible or scrutinized, but simply because I know it's there. Same with cockpits etc.

 

But I find it fascinating how things come to be as they are. My own calculated guess after reading all your contributions would be this: these wheel wells all started life in aluminium silver ( I think we can rule NMF out). The inner side of the gear doors may have been in Sky from the start so as not to detonate too much with the outer surface when the aircraft is parked. Not as a really operational consideration, but as an estethical one and perhaps also a practical one.

 

Then, over the years of operational service, when doing a paint job on the wheel wells and landing gear became necessary, they were done in Sky or White (I have seen both) because those paints were readily available for the maintenance crew. The nose gear well was left in aluminium because it was too small to repaint it properly. People tend to take the easy way out whenever they can and in my own experience, military personnel are far from being an exception to that rule!

 

As far as the museum and stored aircraft are concerned, the paint jobs seem to be a combination of preservation considerations and taking the easy and eye-pleasing way out. The Dutch example that Seahawk (very appropriate name by the way) mentions is in fact not a genuine Dutch machine, as all Dutch Seahawks were scrapped after decommission. The aircraft in the Dutch Fleet Air Arm (MLD) traditons room at Den Helder is in fact former FAA WV828, so entirely repainted in what had to look like a MLD scheme, leaving some areas like the wheel wells to practical and esthetical considerations.

 

In short, I don't think there is a definitive answer. So I'll allow myself some calculated artistic licence and go for off-white main wells, off-white main and nose gear, aluminium nose well and inner door and Sky inner main gear doors. At least that's a choice I'm happy with and can "defend" against anyone questioning it.

 

Now back to the real issues of life. After all, there are more important things then modelling (or are there 😉?)

 

Thank you all!

 

Robert 

 

 

 

[Chewbacca]

12 hours ago, Scimitar said:

Having just seen the empty shell inside the A Model Jetstream T2..any chance of a look please?

 

Strange lot we modellers. I rarely go overboard with wheel wells as they will never be seen and then I detail the insides which will never be seen!

Must be a syndrome.

I fear they may still be classified despite the aircraft having gone out of service!  I'll have a chat to my old chums on Handling Squadron and see what I can do

 

Edited to add, I looked at one of those models a couple of weeks ago at a local model show.  I was tempted but £30 for a 1/72 Jetstream - they're taking the proverbial!

 

Best rgds

Edited May 1, 2018 by Chewbacca