neilfergylee Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 On 08/06/2018 at 16:37, Julien said: @neilfergyleethe black intake front in your post above does appear to be metal, I would say 100% this is a fabricated replacement at some time. Intake rings were wood which was then taped and puttied into place. This is from my own experience of the F.8 I am helping to restore and from speaking to other restorers such as the guys at Elvington who are having new wooden fronts made. Julien Thank you Julien: I have learned something today! Where is your restoration? Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) On 02/06/2018 at 19:03, neilfergylee said: Finally, here is the exception that proves the rule! EE337 was a 'Hooked meteor', Derwent-powered but lacking the vents. All I can say is that it either completely busts my argument or (as I like to think), it was a bit of an oddball, quite probably with slightly different engines. Having done a little more research, I have learned that EE337 was equipped with the Derwent 5 engine of the F.IV, so that's why there was no vent. OK, I'll stop going on... Neil Edited June 15, 2018 by neilfergylee Typo corrected. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) This is a very interesting thread to me, especially but not only where it has touched on the early & late Mk III jet pipes. I'm keen to one day do the Meteor that was gifted to the RNZAF postwar, which had the short jet pipes of the Derwent engined version. Looking at the instruction of a larger scale Mk III, it didn't appear to have different nacelles but short & long jet pipes which would be convenient & easy to achieve but accurate? That of course, is yet to be proven. Steve. Edited June 16, 2018 by stevehnz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, stevehnz said: This is a very interesting thread to me, especially but not only where it has touched on the early & late Mk III jet pipes. I'm keen to one day do the Meteor that was gifted to the RNZAF postwar, which had the short jet pipes of the Derwent engined version. Looking at the instruction of a larger scale Mk III, it didn't appear to have different nacelles but short & long jet pipes which would be convenient & easy to achieve but accurate? That of course, is yet to be proven. Steve. Thanks Steve, This image from Shacklady's book may be of use to you: It is a Derwent-engine aircraft, so don't forget the 10 o'clock vents! If you were modelling this in 1/48, then Tamiya's model would not be quite right because even the F.III model represents a Welland-engined version. One option, if you are feeling flush, is to buy an Airfix F.8 and use an engine out of that. Neil Edited June 16, 2018 by neilfergylee The inevitable typo... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 That's the one Neil, thanks. Nothing as smart as 1/48, I was hoping to refinish an age old Airfix Mk III as this but still not sure if the Derwent nacelle was longer at the rear than the Welland one or did the Derwent just have a shorter jet pipe, leaving the nacelle contours the same? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 9 hours ago, stevehnz said: That's the one Neil, thanks. Nothing as smart as 1/48, I was hoping to refinish an age old Airfix Mk III as this but still not sure if the Derwent nacelle was longer at the rear than the Welland one or did the Derwent just have a shorter jet pipe, leaving the nacelle contours the same? Steve. Steve, To the very best of my knowledge and research, the only difference between Welland and Derwent nacelles was the jetpipe length and the vent. The shape was identical. As an aside, when I finish my PR.10, I'm going to work on an Airfix Mk.III. Neil 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 On 08/06/2018 at 12:15, Dave Fleming said: No, I think it was the shape of the engine fairing leading to the jet pipe (and I can almsot convince myself I see a difference between early mi Is and later ones!) HOLD THE FRONT PAGE! So, I was thumbing through the Midland Counties book on the Meteor last night and found this photo of a nice late Mk.III: The jetpipe looks a little small, especially when compared to a Mk.IV: So @Dave Fleming, you are absolutely correct and I doff my cap to you! Now my next question is whether the rear of the Mk.III's nacelle was simply a wee bit longer to meet the narrower jetpipe or whether the Mk.IV's had a different profile entirely. I wonder if anybody knows? Cheers, Neil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 On 7/2/2018 at 11:18 PM, neilfergylee said: HOLD THE FRONT PAGE! So, I was thumbing through the Midland Counties book on the Meteor last night and found this photo of a nice late Mk.III: The jetpipe looks a little small, especially when compared to a Mk.IV: So @Dave Fleming, you are absolutely correct and I doff my cap to you! Now my next question is whether the rear of the Mk.III's nacelle was simply a wee bit longer to meet the narrower jetpipe or whether the Mk.IV's had a different profile entirely. I wonder if anybody knows? Cheers, Neil I suspect that this difference was a result of the Derwent engine design changes. The Derwent engine Mk I-IV design was used on the Mk 3 Meteor. The Mk 5 Derwent used on Mk 4 was a very different engine. Rolls Royce had identified a requirement for a bigger and more powerful jet engine. As the Derwent was now a good reliable engine they basically used the basic Derwent design as a basis of a new design larger engine and this subsequently became the Rolls Royce Nene . The Nene exceeded all expectations and the prototype produced over 5000lb thrust. Consideration was then made to fit the Nene into the Meteor. Unfortunately this engine was far too wide to fit the wing so in a strange turn of events RR then designed a scaled down version the Nene which produced around 3.500 lbs thrust which was an great improvement on the 2400lb Mk IV Derwent and this engine was then fitted into the Meteor 4 and because of the comminality of the basic design became the Derwent 5 engine. Looking at the pictures above its apparent that the jet pipe of the (Mini Nene) Derwent 5 was much wider than that of the Derwent 4 resulting in a change of the rear necelle profile on the Mk 4 onwards. Selwyn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) @Selwyn, thanks for that: I think we're pretty-well there while @Dave Fleming, and @stevehnz, this is for you both. You will see that this (which used images from Shaklady's book) is limited slightly as I ended-up using a W2/700 engine for one of the examples but I think this provides a pretty useful guide to early Meteor nacelles: Cheers, Neil Edited July 8, 2018 by neilfergylee Aded SteveHNZ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) Fantastic work Neil, thanks! Just goes to show there is still stuff to learn/relearn/discover Edited July 8, 2018 by Dave Fleming 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I think the Welland jet pipe may be narrower than the Derwent one 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dave Fleming said: I think the Welland jet pipe may be narrower than the Derwent one Thats what I was thinking too, which means to convert a Welland engined kit to a Derwent engined one is more than just shortening up the jet pipe but building up the tail end of the nacelle slightly & opening it up a little. Not quite as simple as I'd hoped but doable. Thanks @neilfergylee for that photo, it illustrates the differences superbly well. Steve. Edited July 8, 2018 by stevehnz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 10/06/2018 at 12:19, neilfergylee said: Thank you Julien: I have learned something today! Where is your restoration? Neil Its at The Bentwaters Cold War Museum. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 On 11/07/2018 at 23:17, Julien said: Its at The Bentwaters Cold War Museum. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 While searching for answers for my 50s Warpac/NATO GB HERE if interested I found this thread and a mighty big help it has been. Thank You all. However I think I may be able to offer a bit extra. So Note the profile of the nacelle rear in particular how the scalloped shape is almost entirely gone. As stated EE337 had the Derwent V the next airframe EE338 was standard. Even allowing for the slight angle change I believe that the rear end has been cut short to clear the larger jet pipe. By removing the rear piece (covering it with a piece of paper) the scallop is eliminated by a trick of vision, without needing nacelle mods. Both images from the Shacklady book for discussion only. This image has a different view of the engine rear end Those pipes certainly seem a lot bigger Yes? Finally you may find this old review of interest As Mr J Goulding was there I believe his remarks may be taken as generally accurate. It seems that the engine 'blister/vents' ARE the feature of Derwent I-IV and so no V engine plane needs them. As confirmed by the hooked Meteor which certainly had a V fitted as part of the conversion. I hope this is of interest to somebody. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfergylee Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 hours ago, SleeperService said: I hope this is of interest to somebody. Well,it certainly is to me! I shall do some reading and reply but your contribution is extremely useful. Kind regards, Neil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Are we sure that both the narrow, and the wide inlets have wooden nose sections? I was under the impression that it was just the narrow intakes that featured the wood? Also another small detail change to be aware of with the NF.14 is that the opening DV window changed noticeably in shape at some stage. I think this may have happened towards their later service life, possibly as NF(T)s. Most, if not all, of the preserved NF.14s feature this later DV window, which is different to that used in service shots of NF.14s. For an example of a preserved Night Fighter Meteor with narrow intakes, WM366 at Staverton is a fine example, surprising how different it looks with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Both had the wood. I have seen both types with it. The DV window was a late MOD less than 2 years from the last retiring from Service. It was only the port side which was changed. This has recently come up with the guys resotring WS788 at Elington. No one can find out why it was done so late in service life. Its thought is was a MOD for the training role as the last Sqn which had NFs in service 60 sqn out in the Far East, ended Meteor ops in 1961 and their aircraft didn't have the screen mod. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Thanks for that Julien, I should've stated that I had the intakes wooden ring on both type confirmed by the owner of WK800, just after I posted that. Also, possible info on when the DV windows were changed but need to research further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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