Magua87 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Morning, all. I was wondering if there was an easy way to determine what nacelle size a particular night fighter Meteor was fitted with? I've got a Matchbox build on the go (NF14) and I have an option of narrow or enlarged intakes. I'm currently looking at airframes WS800, WS830, and WS833 from Modeldecal sheet 92. Actually, while we're on the topic of Meteors, regarding airframe WS800, the decal sheet reads "60 Sqn. machines are believe to have had aluminium silver undersides". Can anyone confirm? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) AFAIK all NF. 14s had the larger-diameter “deep breathers”. I’ve found one photo of WS755 “C” taxying and one of WS787 on the gate at Tengah which suggest that these jets had High Speed Silver undersides with a low demarcation between this and the Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey uppersurfaces. Meteor night fighters with the earlier high demarcation between upper and lower-surface camouflage had Medium Sea Grey undersides, e.g. WS830 when with 46 Squadron. Edited April 24, 2018 by stever219 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Great choice! I have the very same kit which is currently vying with an F-111 for the next build! Still not decided. There was a thread ages ago about Meteor NF colours: I think the consensus seemed to be most NF.14s were generally dark green/DSG upper and medium sea grey lower, except for 60 squadron's Far East based ones which were silver underneath. I assume in there were odd differences here and there though, best to try and find a photo of the specific Meteor you want to make, if possible. I would guess that as a later mark, NF.14s would probably have had the larger intakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Lord Riot said: Great choice! I have the very same kit which is currently vying with an F-111 for the next build! Still not decided. There was a thread ages ago about Meteor NF colours: I think the consensus seemed to be most NF.14s were generally dark green/DSG upper and medium sea grey lower, except for 60 squadron's Far East based ones which were silver underneath. I assume in there were odd differences here and there though, best to try and find a photo of the specific Meteor you want to make, if possible. I would guess that as a later mark, NF.14s would probably have had the larger intakes. If I recall the first NF meteors to have the large intakes were the NF 13. Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don McIntyre Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 I keep hoping that Airfix's F.8 was a success and that eventually they'll do a Mk.14. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Selwyn said: If I recall the first NF meteors to have the large intakes were the NF 13. Selwyn They probably were, being the dedicated “tropical” version and needing to screw as much thrust as possible out of hot and high air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Do you know about the error with the NF14 nose? It's too long and you should use the shorter of the two supplied. John Adams discovered this a few years ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 I remember that, but sadly didn't make note, and no longer have the shorter of the two supplied. Can you recall (or measure) how much shorter, so I can cut the existing nose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod mcq Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 According to John's letter to SAM the NF.14 was the same length as the NF.12 at 49ft 11 in rather than the traditional quoted length of 51 ft 4 in so the error is 17 inches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: I remember that, but sadly didn't make note, and no longer have the shorter of the two supplied. Can you recall (or measure) how much shorter, so I can cut the existing nose? Graham do you still have the instructions? The detail the parts to be used for each mark. For the NF 14 you should construct the nose as for the NF 12. In very simplistic build terms the NF 14 was a NF 12 with a bubble canopy. Selwyn Edited April 26, 2018 by Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdsvidioman Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Ok, displaying my ignorance but what was the longer nose used for ?. Very many thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Like most here. I’ve studied my fair share of NF Meteor photographs and from what I can deduce the large bore intakes can be seen on late NF.11’s and all subsequent versions after that. You will be hard pressed to find small bore intakes on NF.12’s, 13’s and 14’s however I’m sure someone will come along and prove me wrong. Now I could just go and grab my copy of Cold War Sheild Vol.1, however that’ll just start my desire to crack open another Meteor kit!! Cheers.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, pdsvidioman said: Ok, displaying my ignorance but what was the longer nose used for ?. Very many thanks Paul That's the point, it wasn't used for anything, its a mistake in the kit. The NF 11 (and NF 13) had the Mk 7 restricted view multi panel canopy, that wasn't really suitable for a fighter aircraft, and the short nose that had the AI mk 10 radar installed which had a range of about 10 miles. The AI mk 21 radar set then became available which was an anglecised version of the US APS 21 set that had a 25 mile range, a considerable improvement.To fit this set to the NF 11 meteor required a 17 inch extension to the nose, and the tail unit was given some extra surface area to compensate for this. So the extended nose NF 11 design with AI 21 became the NF 12. At long last they were able to manufacture large blown canopies so the poor restricted view T7 style canopy of the NF11/12/13 was then replaced on the NF 12 design with the far superior clear view "Bubble Canopy." This modified aircraft design was the NF 14. The NF 14 was still fitted with AI 21 and consequently had the same length nose. Somewhere in the past there was a confusion about the 17 inch extension from the NF 11 to NF 12. It was stated somewhere that when the NF 14 came about there was supposedly a "second extension" of 17 inches added to on the nose of the NF 12 as well with the new canopy to make the NF 14. Over the years this became an often repeated "gospel" for the NF 14, and Matchbox when they designed the kit added a incorrect 17 inch longer nose for the Mk 14 option. The NF 14 is not 17 inches longer than the NF 12. People have measured both aircraft marks and they are the same length. To build an accurate NF 14 just use the nose parts for the NF 12, and consign the kit NF 14 nose bits to the spares box, or bin, as you wish. Selwyn Edited April 26, 2018 by Selwyn 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdsvidioman Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Thank you Selwyn, I remember building the original Matchbox with the long nose parts as instructed and even as a youngster it didn't look right. Now I know why. Again, many thanks, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 1 hour ago, pdsvidioman said: Thank you Selwyn, I remember building the original Matchbox with the long nose parts as instructed and even as a youngster it didn't look right. Now I know why. Again, many thanks, Paul 😂 Me too, I think there are about three of them still in my dad's loft with extra long noses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) On 24 April 2018 at 10:43 PM, Magua87 said: I'm currently looking at airframes WS800, WS830, and WS833 from Modeldecal sheet 92. Actually, while we're on the topic of Meteors, regarding airframe WS800, the decal sheet reads "60 Sqn. machines are believe to have had aluminium silver undersides". Can anyone confirm? Meteor NF.11's had both types of intakes from very early on :- 60Sqdn Meteor NF.14's were delivered/repainted in DSG/DG/Aluminium after the role and Marque "Night-Fighter (NF)" was declared obsolete and changed to F.(AW) on the introduction of the Javelin. A few non operational aircraft in the UK were repainted in the scheme. 60Sqdn's aircraft were not re-marqued. 60Sqdn NF.14's :- Photo :- B.B. Sharmer HTH Dennis Edited April 26, 2018 by sloegin57 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 8 hours ago, Graham Boak said: I remember that, but sadly didn't make note, and no longer have the shorter of the two supplied. Arent't there three noses in the Matchbox kit? Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 I think you are right about three, but as I only have the longest one (I think it is the longest one) I can't pick-and-choose. I can't remember now what I did with the others, so one day I may stumble across one or more in a box where it is intended for some other conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 The picture of the 60 Sqn jets show some good details such as: 1. The sense antenna under the nose, if you look at the lower fuselage directly under the windscreen, you can see the two vertical stand-offs with the horizontal antenna element joining the two. 2. The two cockpit air intakes added to tropical variants, these are on the lower fuselage directly beneath the pilot. 3. The intake on the rear fuselage between the forward squadron marking and the canopy seat rail which Idon't ever recall seeing before. Is that a nightfighter or tropical thing or is it there on all Meteors and I've just forgotten? 4. The whip antenna behind the canopy rail. 5. The antenna on the port engine nacelle, was there a corresponding one on the starboard side? 6. The radio altimeter antenna (the inverted T shape on the lower fuselage beneath the serial number). Also note the generally very clean condition of the aircraft - no pre-shading necessary, as well as the very smooth finish of the skin (except for the oil canning beneath the cockpit), no need for a divot rivet maker either! Nice to see a bit of wear on the intakes of the OC's aircraft though. This is cracking, invaluable stuff, thanks Dennis! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: I think you are right about three, but as I only have the longest one (I think it is the longest one) I can't pick-and-choose. I can't remember now what I did with the others, so one day I may stumble across one or more in a box where it is intended for some other conversion. I have a number of these kits in the stash - I could earmark one as a NF.11 and send you the NF.12/14 nose, if that would work for you. Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 40 minutes ago, Wez said: The picture of the 60 Sqn jets show some good details such as: 1. The sense antenna under the nose, if you look at the lower fuselage directly under the windscreen, you can see the two vertical stand-offs with the horizontal antenna element joining the two. 2. The two cockpit air intakes added to tropical variants, these are on the lower fuselage directly beneath the pilot. 3. The intake on the rear fuselage between the forward squadron marking and the canopy seat rail which Idon't ever recall seeing before. Is that a nightfighter or tropical thing or is it there on all Meteors and I've just forgotten? 4. The whip antenna behind the canopy rail. 5. The antenna on the port engine nacelle, was there a corresponding one on the starboard side? 6. The radio altimeter antenna (the inverted T shape on the lower fuselage beneath the serial number). Also note the generally very clean condition of the aircraft - no pre-shading necessary, as well as the very smooth finish of the skin (except for the oil canning beneath the cockpit), no need for a divot rivet maker either! Nice to see a bit of wear on the intakes of the OC's aircraft though. This is cracking, invaluable stuff, thanks Dennis! The aerial under the port engine nacelle was, originally, repeated in the same relative position under the stbd nacelle except that in that instance it was inboard. A later mod moved it to under the fwd fuselage under the cockpits. The intake on the upper rear fuselage was, I believe, part of the tropicalsiation mod and could be fitted in a variety of positions as shown on these NF.14's wfu at 33MU Lyneham :- HTH Dennis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hook said: Arent't there three noses in the Matchbox kit? Cheers, Andre There are three noses in the kit. The short one is for the NF.11, the middle one for the remaining marques. The third and longest one was intended for the NF.14 but, as has been proved conclusively by John Adams, the wrong length and therefore not required. The best drawings for the NF series of Meteors can be found in the Aeroclub vac form 48th kits or, and better still, one of the relatively few useful things in the Warpaint series Number 22, Meteor book, where the drawings are a combined effort by John and the late David Howley. Dennis Edited April 26, 2018 by sloegin57 Publication title corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Slightly off topic but one other thing to remember when building Meteors of any marque, bar the 4, is that the camouflage pattern on the I's and III's was reversed when applied to the 8's and subsequent marques. The 4 is not included as the aircraft stayed in service not that long and was aluminium overall during that time Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, sloegin57 said: The intake on the upper rear fuselage was, I believe, part of the tropicalsiation mod and could be fitted in a variety of positions as shown on these NF.14's wfu at 33MU Lyneham :- It just goes to show the value of referencing a photo. Thanks for the gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magua87 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 15 hours ago, Wez said: Also note the generally very clean condition of the aircraft - no pre-shading necessary, as well as the very smooth finish of the skin (except for the oil canning beneath the cockpit), no need for a divot rivet maker either! Nice to see a bit of wear on the intakes of the OC's aircraft though. This is cracking, invaluable stuff, thanks Dennis! From memory the lips of the intakes were made of wood? I wonder if that's what we'd see with wear or another layer of paint underneath (if so, what colour?) Thanks everyone for the responses. Very helpful! To keep this train running I've got one more question. Does anyone have any photos of the canopy retraction mechanism? I'm toying with building an aircraft with an open canopy and will need to remove the shuttle currently posed for a closed canopy and build a new one out of plastic card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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