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James B

13 Spitfires, 13 BF109 and a Boulton Paul Defiant. Now with added P-51

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Hi All,

 

I'm taking a bit of a break from my Thunderbirds project to work on a new game I just received in the mail (ordered last September)! I now have as the titles says 27 very small aircraft to paint, and this is a scale unlike anything I have ever attempted before.

 

I began by giving them all a nice hot bath as some of the aircraft had slightly misshapen wings. The soak soon sorted that with very little effort. I took the opportunity to give them a ll a bit of a wash as well, to make sure there was no residual mould release agent or other chemicals.

 

Once dry, I cleaned up the surprisingly few mould lines, took some time to admire the details and then got them under the airbrush for a coat of light grey primer.

 

40697187345_4f8acdaf38_c.jpg

 

Here are the Spitfire mkII and BF-109E after their primer was applied.

41548716732_102796c13c_c.jpg

 

and the Boulton Paul Defiant MkI

40697187015_8e2326b7b8_c.jpg

 

Apologies for the photo quality.

 

I then flipped them all upside down and gave the RAF aircraft a coat of Vallejo RAF Sky, and the Luftwaffe got a RLM76

39781149500_c04b53bc1a_c.jpg

 

I've now masked the undersides of all the RAF aircraft in preparation for a coat of RAF Dark Earth.

41548716892_c61c045219_c.jpg

 

41548717072_961cbdbb77_c.jpg

 

This is where your help comes in, please!

 

I know very little about Luftwaffe camo schemes, and even less about year specific patterns. I have begun researching, but my goodness the rabbit hole appears to be extremely deep, and wide, and oh so very dark! :( So any diagrams/patterns etc that are simple to follow would be appreciated.

 

In addition to this, I want to get a standard camo pattern across the Spitfires as I do know enough about them to know they ran either the Pattern A camo or Pattern B camo, applied using rubber mats as stencils. My research here seems to suggest that the same pattern was rolled out across multiple squadrons at the same time, so the chances of my aircraft sporting different patterns seems to be slim. Is that correct? If so, does anyone have any tip, tricks, advice or suggestion on the best way to do this? I was unable to find masks in the correct scale, which leaves me either attempting to make 13 of my own using tamiya masking tape, or finding another method, perhaps brush painting would be the best way forward?

 

 

If it is of any help, the markings I will be using are:

Spitfire Squadrons 19 and 609

and 

BF109 Schwarm Gruppe I, II, III and IV

 

41548980582_3752100a5a_c.jpg

 

All help and suggestions are greatly appreciated and needed. :) 

Edited by James B
correct auto-correction of camo

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My understanding was that the A scheme was used on even serials numbers and the B on odd serial numbers (or visa Versa) so the scheme depends on the Serial number.  So if you can figure out a Serial for each Spitfire you'll know what scheme it had but at this scale you can't see the Serial. 

 

I know that 19 Sqn during the BofB had a mixture.. So you could do a mixture and it would be difficult to dispute..

 

Hope this helps..

Edited by Grey Beema

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James, is this blood red skies? If so got mine last week, painted up the spits and 109s basic, they're so small! 

 

Wifes going give me a thrashing tonight apparently :huh:

 

looking forward to seeing your updates. 

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19 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

You could reverse a spitfire A & B scheme as a replacement aircraft ?  

Thank you for the suggestion. I hadn't considered mixing the schemes, and by doing so it will provide some visual variety.

13 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

My understanding was that the A scheme was used on even serials numbers and the B on odd serial numbers (or visa Versa) so the scheme depends on the Serial number.  So if you can figure out a Serial for each Spitfire you'll know what scheme it had but at this scale you can't see the Serial. 

 

I know that 19 Sqn during the BofB had a mixture.. So you could do a mixture and it would be difficult to dispute..

 

Hope this helps..

 

I do indeed have the serial numbers, so I think I will try and follow the scheme setup as you've described. At the very least it will give me some variety.Thank you.

2 hours ago, Antb said:

James, is this blood red skies? If so got mine last week, painted up the spits and 109s basic, they're so small! 

 

Wifes going give me a thrashing tonight apparently :huh:

 

looking forward to seeing your updates. 

It is Blood Red Skies. I have some USAF stuff arriving in the next couple of days to hopefully. Not sure there will be many players on this side of the world, but I could resist having a display of multiple fighter formations. 

 

 

I'm still really unsure on the Luftwaffe colours and patterns at this time of the war, and really struggling as to how best to paint the camo patterns on either.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, James B said:

I'm still really unsure on the Luftwaffe colours and patterns at this time of the war, and really struggling as to how best to paint the camo patterns on either.

The Luftwaffe Splinter pattern over the light blue was either RLM 70,71 or RLM 71,02 . At this scale i would use tape cut at various angles to represent the hard edged splinter patterns seen at the time. For the noses and tails yellow, white, and i believe there was a red nosed 109 unit also in the B.o.B.. The nose/tail I.D. Colors ranged from lower cowling to mid cowling to full cowling. 

     Mottling on the RLM 65 lowers varied from light to heavy. It varied from front to back top to bottom as well. The mottling was a mix of RLM 70,71,02. It could be splotchy or wavy line in appearance depending on pilot, unit, and time involved to get the job done. And sometimes on the upper splinter schemes there were wavy lines painted in the Third color to break the splinter pattern up. So if uppers were RLM 70/71 the wavy lines would be 02. If the uppers were RLM 71/02 the wavy lines would be RLM 70. It was just another way to break up the uniformity of the rigid splinter. HTH?

 

Dennis

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31 minutes ago, James B said:

It is Blood Red Skies. I have some USAF stuff arriving in the next couple of days to hopefully. Not sure there will be many players on this side of the world, but I could resist having a display of multiple fighter formations. 

Absolutely agree with the formations. It's not very often we, as modellers, build multiples and display them together. 

 

Ive ordered the p51s, ace, the zeros and the Japanese ace too, so looking forward to them arriving. 

 

The game happened with the wife tonight. She won, and I didn't even let her win either :swear:

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1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

The Luftwaffe Splinter pattern over the light blue was either RLM 70,71 or RLM 71,02 . At this scale i would use tape cut at various angles to represent the hard edged splinter patterns seen at the time. For the noses and tails yellow, white, and i believe there was a red nosed 109 unit also in the B.o.B.. The nose/tail I.D. Colors ranged from lower cowling to mid cowling to full cowling. 

     Mottling on the RLM 65 lowers varied from light to heavy. It varied from front to back top to bottom as well. The mottling was a mix of RLM 70,71,02. It could be splotchy or wavy line in appearance depending on pilot, unit, and time involved to get the job done. And sometimes on the upper splinter schemes there were wavy lines painted in the Third color to break the splinter pattern up. So if uppers were RLM 70/71 the wavy lines would be 02. If the uppers were RLM 71/02 the wavy lines would be RLM 70. It was just another way to break up the uniformity of the rigid splinter. HTH?

 

Dennis

Really, really helpful, thank you.

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According to the Scale Aircraft Modelling article Spitfire Camouflage 1938-1940 (Volume 5 No.2, November 1982) for Supermarine built aircraft, the most common rule was that serial numbers ending with an even number had the A Scheme, whilst those ending with an odd number had the B Scheme. However, the following aircraft had the reverse (i.e. A odd/B even) :

K9787-K9882

K9888-K9891

N3160-N3203

N3264-3295

P9557-P9565

R6751-R6780

R6799 & R6800

R6804-R6818

R6829-R6840

 

The article goes on to state that R6879 certainly had the A Scheme, but it was not  certain when the A even/B odd rule was reinstated. It states "possibly by R6880 but certainly by R6904."

 

For Castle Bromwich built aircraft the basic rule was alternated for each batch, thus:

A even/B odd: P7350-P7389, P7490-P7509, P7590-P7629 and P7730-P7759.

 

A odd/B even: P7280-P7329, P7420-P7449, P7520-P7569, P7660-P7699 and P7770-P7789.

 

From P7810 onwards only the A scheme was applied.

 

The article also has useful information about the application of squadron code letters. No.19 Squadron placed the squadron codes forward of the roundel on both sides of the aircraft during the Battle of Britain, whilst No. 609 had the squadron codes forward of the roundel on the port side and aft of the roundel on the starboard side. It looks like the decal sheet has got this correct.

 

Hope this helps,

Mark.

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@lasermonkey, Thank you. That is incredible information and further supports what others have said. The detail however, is incredible, and I'm truly grateful. Now if only I didn't have to make, cut and stick down 14 masks (and that's before I even get to the Luftwaffe) :(

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On 4/22/2018 at 12:43 PM, lasermonkey said:

According to the Scale Aircraft Modelling article Spitfire Camouflage 1938-1940 (Volume 5 No.2, November 1982) for Supermarine built aircraft, the most common rule was that serial numbers ending with an even number had the A Scheme, whilst those ending with an odd number had the B Scheme. However, the following aircraft had the reverse (i.e. A odd/B even) :

K9787-K9882

K9888-K9891

N3160-N3203

N3264-3295

P9557-P9565

R6751-R6780

R6799 & R6800

R6804-R6818

R6829-R6840

 

The article goes on to state that R6879 certainly had the A Scheme, but it was not  certain when the A even/B odd rule was reinstated. It states "possibly by R6880 but certainly by R6904."

 

For Castle Bromwich built aircraft the basic rule was alternated for each batch, thus:

A even/B odd: P7350-P7389, P7490-P7509, P7590-P7629 and P7730-P7759.

 

A odd/B even: P7280-P7329, P7420-P7449, P7520-P7569, P7660-P7699 and P7770-P7789.

 

From P7810 onwards only the A scheme was applied.

 

The article also has useful information about the application of squadron code letters. No.19 Squadron placed the squadron codes forward of the roundel on both sides of the aircraft during the Battle of Britain, whilst No. 609 had the squadron codes forward of the roundel on the port side and aft of the roundel on the starboard side. It looks like the decal sheet has got this correct.

 

Hope this helps,

Mark.

If I have understood your information correctly, all but one of my aircraft will be using the 'A' pattern?

 

I have:

sq. 19

P9386 (Ends in an even number so A as well as From P7810 onwards only the A scheme was applied.)

R6676 (Ends in an even number so A)

P7849 (From P7810 onwards only the A scheme was applied.)

X4179 (Ends in an odd number so B )

X4474 (Ends in an even number so A)

P7423 (Ends in an odd number but Castle Bromwich built aircraft the basic rule was alternated for each batch so A)

 

sq. 609

P8098 (Ends in an even number so A as well as From P7810 onwards only the A scheme was applied.)

P8264 (Ends in an even number so A as well as From P7810 onwards only the A scheme was applied.)

R6692 (Ends in an even number so A)

P7966 (Ends in an even number so A as well as From P7810 onwards only the A scheme was applied.)

P9322 (Ends in an even number so A as well as From P7810 onwards only the A scheme was applied.)

R6690 (Ends in an even number so A)

Edited by James B

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I have read, and re-read the detailed information provided by everyone, and am pretty confident I have understood it correctly. The trouble is, this means taht all but 1 of the spitfires will be running the A-scheme, and although this would be correct, I can't help but feel it might be better to have a little variation? I was thinking I'd run all the Odd numbers in the B scheme, which is still only 3, but will add a little more interest. What do you all think? Stick with the 100% historically accurate 1 in 'B' scheme, or go for 3?

 

For the BF109, were they painted in a similar way? Will all the camo be identical or were they random using a set scheme?

I'm going to use the top right scheme from this image:

7e70621e2f1dca1575bcc7d2a30be239.image.9

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2 hours ago, James B said:

I was thinking I'd run all the Odd numbers in the B scheme, which is still only 3, but will add a little more interest. What do you all think? Stick with the 100% historically accurate 1 in 'B' scheme, or go for 3?

 

For the BF109, were they painted in a similar way? Will all the camo be identical or were they random using a set scheme?

I'm going to use the top right scheme from this image:

7e70621e2f1dca1575bcc7d2a30be239.image.9

I’d go for the 3, now for your german option. Its a good choice but I would also vary the mottling and Identification colors (yellow nose and tail). However im not 100% sure but i dont think the RLM - 74,75,76 came into play until 1941. The pattern is correct for the B.o.B. just not the colors. 

 

   🔺  Here these painting profile guides are from here. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwi8ttuHqNHaAhUogK0KHY4ECWUQFjAAegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.asisbiz.com%2FBf-109E.html&usg=AOvVaw24R3SO0LIFnZMck75yoHMg

 

NExIWb1.jpg

sDhyJY4.jpg

tYLL36P.jpg

 

This should help visualize some of the intricacies of german camouflage just during the Battle of Britain. Let alone the next 4.5 years. Asis-Biz is one of the better places to get info ? I hope this helps you.

 

Dennis

 

🔺 - All credit/ownership goes to Asiz-Biz i just repost for informational purposes. 

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle

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I'm assuming that the 109's are meant to be E series (but the lower cowl looks awfully like D series) If D series it's simple they would have all been in a 70/71 standard splinter pattern the splinter pattern would have covered the sides of the fuselage with 65 undersides, gruppen and staffell markings and a unit badge under the cockpit and possibly some personalized second badge on the cowl. 

 

If they're E's then it becomes (way more complicated) they started off in similar colourscheme  to the D's then would have adopted the high 65 fuselage and either white or yellow recognitiion markings on the wingtips, cowl and rudder (battle of Britain) the 70 could also be replaced with 02. Some planes then have mottling on the sides. Later war E's would have had the same colours but with a softer line between the camo colours, motled sides and wavy lines between the colours, even later war E's and particularly nightfighters would have been painted in 74/75/76. By the end of the war they had shifted to 81/82/83 but I doubt you'd see an E in one of these schemes.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Marklo said:

I'm assuming that the 109's are meant to be E series

They are indeed meant to be E series. Battle of Britain era though, so that helps narrow the field a little based on your advice. Thank you.

 

 

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I decided to go for 3 B patterns, and the rest 'A'.  I started by copying the drawings I was sent by @Grey Beema (huge thank you), but then realised I would have to drastically simplify them for the scale. This is what I came up with:

 

41645915472_6461c8a5c2_c.jpg

 

 

Next, I traced them onto some plastic that miniatures are sold in, but OHP sheet would do the same trick, o anything similar. I traced them into two lines less than the width of my masking tape to avoid as much wastage as possible:

 

39878393940_faf0d4b7be_c.jpg

 

Peeled off from the sheet and applied to the aircraft.

 

41645915352_7b2576550e_c.jpg

 

Rinse ad repeat:

 

39878393560_cb67531e53_c.jpg

 

Finally, a coat of RAF dark green. Leave till dry and peel off the tape:

 

39878393260_1894d38201_c.jpg

 

Not fantastic, but not too bad either?  Now to paint in the details, varnish, decal, varnish, weather and finally varnish.

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Next I began adding in some details. I began by painting the cockpit windows with RAF Azure blue. Once dry I gave these a dark blue ink wash. I then used Black to paint the nose cones/spinners and wheels. 

 

41047800334_c9d8f421c0_c.jpg

 

41765935791_31c7dfdc8e_c.jpg

 

39958147860_9784e1b5c8_c.jpg

 

I've now given them all a gloss varnish, which once dry will mean I can start adding the decals. Which I've just noticed seem to be wrong for the starboard sides, having the letters the wrong side of the roundels on the SQ. 19 sheet (top left)? If you look closely the letter pairs are reversed, meaning they read backwards on the starboard side. Is this correct for this squadron, or a mistake by the decal manufacturer?

 

41548980582_3752100a5a_c.jpg

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The arduous task of cutting small decals as close as possible from the sheets continues for the spitfires. So not much to show there yet. I have however begun work on the BF109E. 

 

I began this time (sorry i forgot to take pictures of this stage) with a grey primer (as per the spitfires) and then sprayed the wingtips, nose section and tail either RLM04 yellow or white (7 yellow and 6 white). Once completely dry, I masked these areas and then applied a base coat of RLM02, before creating a mask in the same way as I did for the spitfires.

 

41851343882_526a681417_c.jpg

 

Once the RLM02 was completely dry, about 24 hours, I applied my hand cut masks and gave them a few thin coats of RLM71.

 

41894068641_3402e75e97_c.jpg

 

I then removed the masking tape and brush painted in the windows using AK Air RAF Azure Blue as I did for the Spitfires. I decided to paint the spinners black to break up the all yellow nose section a little and reference shots seemed to differ between black and yellow spinners, so hopefully it is historically accurate, but at this scale it was definitely needed. 

 

41894068841_60f205049d_c.jpg

 

I will paint in the exhausts using an undercoat of black and then a thin coat of aluminium over the top next. Once this is dry, they'll get a gloss varnish in preparation for decals.

 

I'm not sure if I've mentioned previously, but a couple of boxes of P-51 Mustangs arrive last week also, so they'll hopefully get cleaned up and primed this weekend as well. Just need to find some good decals for them and the Defiant still, so far I've not found too much so if anyone has any good leads it'd be appreciated. I'm also not sure what squadron, paint scheme I should go with for them. As they're late war aircraft I'm thinking of sticking with the European theatre, and having  bit of fun with d-day stripes, what do you think?

 

 

 

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Nice paint job so far on those small planes! :)

 

Håkan

 

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Thank you @Azgaron.

 

I forgot to mention a step!

 

Before removing all the masking, I masked the top sections of the aircraft, wings, tail and top of the fuselage. I then gave the underside and sides a coat of RLM65. After this I painted the cockpit windows as mentioned above.

 

My wife also offered to have a game, which despite losing (more down to luck than any skill on my part) is really keen for another game! After 11 years of marriage I may yet make a modeller and gamer out of her! The system works really well and isn't bogged down with complicated rules, it's relatively easy to pick up and play which is really nice. It also meant that I got to use my new Deepcut studios mat for the 1st time. I have to say it is really very nice. On this side of the world I didn't have too many options so had to fork out for the silly priced mouse mat version, but having used it, the quality is excellent and I'd have to say it's worth the money. I grabbed a couple of pics from the game, so excuse the half finished models, but they looked pretty thematic and so I couldn't resist.

 

41894068961_9eea313ca1_c.jpg

 

28024504788_1d7e559831_c.jpg

 

41176978214_6d86acdfce_c.jpg

 

41851343452_2d766191e1_c.jpg

 

41851343282_9041699d09_c.jpg

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