Which is best Airfix or Italeri Ju87 B2 1/48 ?

[Merlin]

Hi,

Considering finesse, i.e not overscale detail, scale panel lines, as well and importantly accuracy of shape compared to plans and WW2 photos, which is the best 1/48 Ju87B2 kit, the recent Airfix or bit older Italeri ?

As Airfix tend to use trench lines and lose the realistic appearance, I am erring towards Italeri before even comparing/buying but how do they both stack up to close scrutiny ?

Interested to know how they compare on spinner shape, canopy optical quality , distortion, haze, and shape, ....upper intake scoop compared to photos, Propeller shape, wheel spats, surface detail as the Ju87 does feature some raised rivets on wings, tyre tread treatment, overall shapes and so on.

 

Cheers

Merlin

[Troy Smith]

47 minutes ago, Merlin said:

As Airfix tend to use trench lines and lose the realistic appearance, I am erring towards Italeri before even comparing/buying but how do they both stack up to close scrutiny ?

Which Airfix 1/48th Ju-87....

 

the Italeri kit has  has a horrible spinner,   and seems to have the canopy in the wrong place.

discussed here, along with other options.

Quote

On 06/08/2016 at 11:38, Troy Smith said:

the Italeri kit has grossly misshaped spinner, and according to some comments, the entire cockpit is in the wrong place, which looks to be the case

after much searching for comparable image

.... note distance between windscreen and cowling, and the bulbous spinner shape,( Italeri really have problems with spinners...their Hurricane ones are absymal)

The old Airfix is riveted, but was based on their 1/24th kit. with work it's still a contender, though I think the fin is too high.

see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234991668-airfix-junkers-ju87b-stuka-148-scale/

Best bet for a B-2 is the Revell of Germany rebox of the Hasegawa B-2, as it will have reasonable decals, and easier/cheaper to get in the UK (I note you are in Manchester)

this one https://www.scalemates.com/kits/136120-revell-04564-ju-87b-2-stuka

Airfix may do a 1/48th B-2, as the B-1 kit will have most of the bits.

HTH

T

 

 

48 minutes ago, Merlin said:

surface detail as the Ju87 does feature some raised rivets on wings

the only 1/48th Ju-87 with rivets is the old tool Airfix kit....  which like most of their original 1/48th kits from the late 70's  is decent for it's  day,  and will scrub up with some work. 

 

I'd have a search for some online builds for the an idea of the below

50 minutes ago, Merlin said:

Interested to know how they compare on spinner shape, canopy optical quality , distortion, haze, and shape, ....upper intake scoop compared to photos, Propeller shape, wheel spats, surface detail

 

I don't have the new tool  Airfix,  but I've not seen any wailing or gnashing of teeth,  apart from some badly placed ejector pin marks, and possible mould shrikage, see here, and the links.

  the Hasegawa kit is classic hase 90's era,  overall decent,  fine panel lines,  a few minor glitches AFAIK.   Loads of builds online.

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

[Duncan B]

Is the Tamiya 1/48 kit a rebox of the Italeri kit?

 

Duncan B

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Duncan B said:

Is the Tamiya 1/48 kit a rebox of the Italeri kit?

 

Duncan B

yes, but with bomb loading trolley and maybe some figures added. 

[Merlin]

Hi,

Quote

see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234991668-airfix-junkers-ju87b-stuka-148-scale/

 

has no photos and thread only makes mention of whats in the photos.

 

Italeri has spinner and canopy issues.

Revell the reviewer made no comparison to reality or plans, .

 

Old Airfix, not sure the finesse I am after is there. fin issues maybe, and Airfix have brought out new so clearly not happy with their past work.

 

Hoping that in 2018 there would be a decent 1/48 Ju87B.

 

Nothing so far I can a grip on here.

 

Hasegawa, will google see what I can find.

 

Has no one hands on knowledge of how Airfix new B2 compares to WW2 pics of the chin and upper intakes, canopy shape, spinner etc etc ?

 

Cant use B1 as those areas are different.

 

is there a review anywhere that looks at the actual shape as opposed to counting number of parts the sprues have got etc and ploughing through instruction sheets.

 

Cheers

 

Merlin

[Merlin]

I now have both new Airfix kits, as well as the Hasegawa !  I could see Airfix had maybe been to the USA looking at the upper cowling on the B1. Discovered at home though that the Airfix B1 and B2 1/48 have same sprue in both boxes for upper part of Cowling which isnt right as there is a big difference there in the shape of the scoop, cowling top fwd of radiator and height of radiator. B2 taller rad, with different surface details, and consequently the cowling fwd of it has been lowered, the port fairing also differs as a result.

 

I see no reviews yet of the two kits and a study of the real thing.

 

Hasegawa kit has lovely panel lines unlike yet again somewhat trenchlike Airfix which spoil the two kits. Unsure how to fill these, damned nuisance.  If the Japanese can do panel lines why cant Airfix, it is 2018 after all. Matchbox got ribbed over it way back.

 

I think Airfix are nearer reality with the scoop shape than Hasegawa but that area is darned difficult to suss without more photos, no one thought to aim camera at it in WW2. USA with theirs hung up dont help, . Hung up aircraft are useless for research, may as well be fibreglass. USA have lowered theirs down for an inspection now etc, If Airfix did visit the USA, why put a B1 upper radiator cowling and rad in a B2 kit, unless its a boxing mistake. Has anyone a B2 kit with B1 sprue ATML 00444 Frame E or a different cowling ? What sprue fret number is your B2 upper cowl. The B1 fret in my B2 kitbox also features the B1 metal bladed propeller as well.

 

Merlin

[Troy Smith]

The Ju-87 in Chicago is a B-2

 

There was discussion here if you could make a B-2 out of the B-1 boxing,  IRCC the B-1 had most but not all the  B-2 parts.

 

 A look at the Stuka in Action book does not mention any difference between the upper cowling of the B-1 vs B-2 upper cowling, and from photos I can't see a difference.

 

The B-1 cowling underwent a series of modifications during service as well, 

 

 

Re the Chicago Stuka, it was recently brought down for a 3-d scan

http://abc7chicago.com/entertainment/german-ww2-plane-spruced-up-for-3-d-scan/513624/

 

I'm on a little tablet so hard to do some better searching, but I have seen walkround pics of the Chicago plane

There are undoubtedly WW2 era photos of the upper cowling, given the Stukas status as propaganda icon,  but they may not be on the net.

There are lots of photos here

https://www.asisbiz.com/Ju-87-Stuka.html

 

Which may help.

 

[Merlin]

Hi,

What sprue (see number on its sprue) do you Airfix 1/48 B-2 owners have for the upper cowling ?

If it has on it ATML-00444 FRAME E then thats a B-1 upper cowling, incorrect for a B2.

differences between B1 and B2 cowling are as here, the image is bigget than the forum has shrunk it to, you might be able to open it into photoshopp etc :-

we see for the B1 less length for the flat straight portion which becomes a large radius curve then a second radius curve kicks in, as shown in the far left image, whilst the B2 has a wide straight line top and a small single radius at either end.

Face of B2 radiator has different structure/features, thre unevenly distributed stiffeners compared to twice as many (and evenly distributed) on the B1. see head on shots lower right.

Its a deeper radiator and so to allow the fwd scoop to feed it air the fwd scoop is deeper thus a different intersection with the cowling sides. (as cowling top aft of rad is same as B1)

As such it would appear to go nearer to the intake 'reverse D' vent on the B2 if the  pic with the yellow cowl is compared the B1 above it (dented spinner)

 

Regards

 

Merlin

[Tail-Dragon]

I am currently working on a 1/48 Hasegawa JU-87B-2/R-2, and can tell you that it is a lovely kit, with a few correctable issues. On the plus side, the fit is excellent, the entire airframe is assembled and required no filler at all, and the details is fine and restrained. On the down side, the flap/aileron supports are cast as solid triangle instead of rods and need to be replaced (not a big issue), the oil cooler scoop on the upper surface of the nose is shallow and choked off, and need to be deepened and opened up and a new cooler made, the outlet for it and the rad are just open holes, and need some scratch building to finish them, and finally, the cockpit (while good) could stand with some added detailing to 'busy' it up. 

[Merlin]

Hi Tail-Dragon,

Good to know, sounds like a nice kit,

Does the cowling shape over the top of the upper radiator follow the B2 shape or B1 shape as per my pics ?

 

Tip. almost all RLM model paints for 70 71 65 are wrong colours, Sovereign Paints are matched to Merrick/Kiroff  (the rlm65 is bang on, yet to paint out the 70 71 but based on accuracy of 65 I am confident) the only model paint that is correct for rlm65, rest are way out, so finish the kit correctly with Sovereign ! Not sure Sovereign sell to canada though, contact them and find out, else colour match your own to Merrick charts.

 

Merlin

[Tail-Dragon]

2 hours ago, Merlin said:

 

Good to know, sounds like a nice kit,

Does the cowling shape over the top of the upper radiator follow the B2 shape or B1 shape as per my pics ?

 

Merlin

The oil cooler on top looks to be correct for a B-2, just shallow and 'choked' in at the back. I opened it up and made a new, wider cooler face based on photos. Plus the other mods I mentioned ...

 

 

 

 

The R-2 drop tanks were robbed from an Airfix B-1 kit, which had them for some reason. This kit required no filler at all, just careful fitting first, and sanding the extruded cement/plastic seams

[Merlin]

Hi,

I think you have captured the look of the upper cowling and rad very well, perhaps my photos also assist . As such was the kit needing minor tweaks there or major surgery ? Did it come with the taller radiator and correct grille on it ? The straight top with just radisued corners as per my pics you have got, is that your handiwork or very much as kitted ?

I see I have the Hasegawa Ju87B/R with skis, according to my database, somewhere deep in my stashe of kits, not sure if it also comes with normal U/C or if I was hoping to add such from elsewhere. Did they bring your kit out later or at the same time as mine ?

 

The thought of panel lines in keeping with scale and not trenches is appealing, from what I see from your photos it loks a real nice kit, also the fact that at the moment my Airfix B2 isnt a B2 having been kitted with a B1 upper cowl , shallow rad and scoops all wrong for a B2 ,unless it is a boxing error means to make a B2 its going to have to be Hasegawa.

 

Merlin

Edited January 11, 2020 by Merlin

[Troy Smith]

11 hours ago, Merlin said:

sure if it also comes with normal U/C or if I was hoping to add such from elsewhere. Di

https://modelingmadness.com/splfeat/kr/has48c.htm

Has a list of what is what in  Hasegawa kit.  A quick look suggest it does have the UC parts.

re the Airfix kit, could just not modify the B-1 cowl?

 

 

[Tail-Dragon]

On 1/10/2020 at 8:09 PM, Merlin said:

I think you have captured the look of the upper cowling and rad very well, perhaps my photos also assist . As such was the kit needing minor tweaks there or major surgery ? Did it come with the taller radiator and correct grille on it ? The straight top with just radisued corners as per my pics you have got, is that your handiwork or very much as kitted ?

I see I have the Hasegawa Ju87B/R with skis, according to my database, somewhere deep in my stashe of kits,

 

Merlin

I wouldn't say that the Hasegawa kit required major surgery, just some tweaks here and there, with some careful fitting and a bit of shimming and internal bracing with chunks of sprue.

If I recall, the areas I concentrated on were replacing the (as molded) solid triangles for the flap/aileron supports with brass wire, and in the cockpit - new seats from Ultracast, added wiring and missing details from plasticard and brass wire, ammo magazine straps from old photo etch set runners (sprue frames?) and a photo etch gunsite.  The nose section needed internal braces to widen it slightly, the oil cooler was deepened by cementing a thick piece of spare kit plastic to the back, then drilling and filing the opening to the more correct opening width and making a new oil cooler face with scrap plastic and stretched sprue, and building a duct for the outlet with plasicard (Hasegawa just has a hole there). Also adding a simple ductwork to the rad outlet (again, Hasegawa just has an open hole).  More like fine tuning than major surgery.

The transparencies are beautiful, thin and clear, and nest together well for an open canopy - much better than Airfix's attempt.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Tail-Dragon

[Ray_W]

Tail-Dragon, great work. You have given me inspiration to actually modify the Airfix B1 cowl and side panels and make a new radiator housing for an R2 version I want to build. You provide a good argument for Hasegawa but I am into reducing my stash not increasing and have the Airfix B1. And, if Merlin's comments are correct there is little advantage in the Airfix B2/R2 boxing. I have not seen the sprues for this later release but the inbox YouTube review done by My Small Hobby shows at 6:01 the small fret containing the B2 bits. These replace fret "H" in the B1 boxing. Merlin's Stuka eye will pick if it's different to his boxing and if they are correct. The radiator may still be in error and I cannot see a new top cowl. New side panels of course.  AIMS make a resin replacement radiator but I am not certain if this is right for the B2 even though they claim so.

 

Ray

[Ray_W]

@Merlin  I am modifying the Airfix B1 cowl per this photo of a nosed over R2. I think @Tail-Dragon captured the look nicely. 

 

 

It appears that the extra surface area of the oil cooler radiator was achieved by extending the face down ending up with a more pronounced radius in the top of the cowl leading into the cooler and a lengthening of that strake on the starboard side. 

 

So my plan is as follows. Airfix B1 cowl as shown.

 

 

As to the top side of the oil cooler section and what actually happens on the exit side. I am not certain. Possibly the top side was also raised a little hence the shorter top side parallel section that you have already identified.This would be  achieved if you want to maintain the shape of the body of the fuselage.

 

Also a word of caution in this photo there is kink in the transition between panels but other photos of B2/R2 do not show this so it is probably a result of the nose over.

 

 

I  have no comparative photos of the oil cooler exit and trying to hunt something down.

 

As a general comment, the mods to the latest Airfix 1/48 B1 to B2/R2 standard are not difficult. The opening up of the straight exhausts to fit the ejector pattern and the changes to the covers and openings seems straight forward.

 

Next onto that main radiator and trying to understand the dimensional changes B1 to B2 and in fact what Airfix has really done. I am still in the research stage before I cut, file, fab, fill and finish.

 

Ray

 

 

[alt-92]

I'd like to see a non-crashed example before betting on that kink.

Because it looks like the bottom of the cowling has split, I'd venture that that is just the damage showing.

Edited January 13, 2020 by alt-92

[Ray_W]

I agree. Ignore the kink, which will be battle damage, but, the cowl detail ahead of the oil cooler (which is also creased) does show the deeper radiator entry and strake detail. Getting a good top side nose detail close-up for a B2 has not been easy. 

[Tail-Dragon]

7 hours ago, Ray_W said:

@Merlin  I am modifying the Airfix B1 cowl per this photo of a nosed over R2. I think @Tail-Dragon captured the look nicely. 

 

 

As to the top side of the oil cooler section and what actually happens on the exit side. I am not certain. Possibly the top side was also raised a little hence the shorter top side parallel section that you have already identified.This would be  achieved if you want to maintain the shape of the body of the fuselage.

 

Also a word of caution in this photo there is kink in the transition between panels but other photos of B2/R2 do not show this so it is probably a result of the nose over.

 

 

I  have no comparative photos of the oil cooler exit and trying to hunt something down.

 

As a general comment, the mods to the latest Airfix 1/48 B1 to B2/R2 standard are not difficult. The opening up of the straight exhausts to fit the ejector pattern and the changes to the covers and openings seems straight forward.

 

Next onto that main radiator and trying to understand the dimensional changes B1 to B2 and in fact what Airfix has really done. I am still in the research stage before I cut, file, fab, fill and finish.

 

Ray

 

 

Thanks, just for fun, I cropped and rotated a photo of my Hasegawa JU-87R-2, and the 'kink' was present, as in the photo above. From studying the kit, it appears that the extent of the 'kink' is (at least in part) and optical illusion caused by the upper deck of the fuselage widening out behind the cowl to meet with the windscreen. I cant guaranty it's accuracy, but other photo's of t he B-2/R-2 do show a slight angle change upward of the top deck aft of the cowl.

 

 

Colin

Edited January 13, 2020 by Tail-Dragon

[Ray_W]

Hi Colin,

 

Thanks for going to the trouble. Interesting and fun comparison.

 

Studying all the Ju 87 photos on www.asisbiz.com I've come to the conclusion that when viewed at that higher 1/4 position there is a kink but from straight on sideways any kink is negligible.  Anyway, the same is probably also true of the B1 and probably not an indicator of a higher top level on the B2 oil cooler cowl. What is clear to is that the B1 to B2 oil cooler revision involved lowering the bottom edge which resulted in a more circular shape and greater troughing on either side. 

 

I have a hunch that the top was raised giving additional frontal area by also lifting the front edge rather than as the B1 which tends to follow the cowl line down. The B2 top panel in the area of the oil cooler appears to be more parallel and closer to the line of thrust. There is an Alamy photo of the line-up of delivery of the 12 Stuka R-2's to Bulgaria that shows this well (German Airforce Bombers Typ JU 87, Stuka, lined up on an airfield in Kalinowka, Bulgaria in 1942 during World war 2 - Image ID: W66PBJ )  Correction: I now consider the photo showing the line-up of 12 R2's were not the supplied aircraft but was taken on the occasion of Bulgaria's Tsar III Boris's visit to the German Airbase at Krajnici, Bulgaria in 1941 inspecting the Ju-87's and Ju-88's.

 

I feel reasonably confident that without detailed drawings I can still achieve a shape on my Airfix B1 more suitable for an R2. Something you have captured so nicely in your Hasegawa build.

 

Ray

  

 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Ray_W
Updated information