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Hi

 

After struggling with Trumpeters Belfast (i've just dropped it in RFI) I fancied something easier and seem to have settled on a 1/350 scratchbuild of HMS Ceylon (trust me it will be easier than Trumpeters efforts.......)

 

I say "seem to have settled" as TBH I am still not 100% sure that I will follow all the way through with this in one go. I am being sorely tempted by one of the new 1/35 Panther tank kits and even if I do stick with this through the summer without being distracted by afv's I have pencilled Eduards new 1/48 Tempest in as my Telford purchase (which tradition dictates  i must start the day after I get back!)

 

I had a few criteria for the choice of this build.

 

  • I wanted to re engage with one of the stalled scratchbuilt hulls I have hanging around
  • I wanted to do a RN ship in one of the later mainly blue admiralty colour schemes (Ceylon is in G10, B15, B30 & B55 according to my references) and hopefully the longer build time will give Sovereign time to bring out their new range of colors before I need to use them. (at least for B30 & 55)

 

After a bit of dithering i chose to use a hull I built to model HMS Gambia and discarded because of a couple of problems with it (Gambia is now finished with a new hull) Unfortunatly I started the hull without a stock of suitable thickness plastic card and the forcastle now has some quite distinctive "scallops"  the transom stern is also slightly out of true (confident that this can easily be fixed when its attached to a base) The fix for the forcastle may be more complex/less convincing so lets see where we end up!

 

 

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Evening All

 

While I normally start construction with the hull I don't have any Flyhawk 1/350 Royal navy "anti slide" deck plate (got some on order) so instead i've made a start with some of the smaller fixtures and fittings, some of these are extras I had in stock and some just from scratch/moulded.

  • 6" barrells are from the flyhawk Belfast set, the shorter central ones had plastic rod extensions added and filed to shape so the lengths match the correct longer ones.
  • I've also cast quite a few bits n bobs that I made moulds of when I constructed HMS Gambia, so far I've only tidied up one of the deck houses.
  • Winchs are veteran IJN ones as I have no RN Northstar ones in stock
  • Hacs are not for Ceylon they are shapeways (Micromster) ones for HMS Warspite which is slowly progressing.
  • 20mm mounts are spare Pontos ones.

 

Think its worth pointing out that I don't have any plans for HMS Ceylon herself, my main ref will therefore be the Profile Morskie plans for HMS Gambia and the plans in the Raven/Roberts british cruisers book of HMS Swiftsure, main photo refs are contained on the Ray Bean DVD of fiji class cruisers and the build will involve quite a bit of guesstimating sizes/locations/layouts etc where the two ships differ.If anyone has any detail pics of Ceylon in 43/44 I would be very grateful if they could share them!

 

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40806406834_f7240afe25_k.jpg

Had a bit of spare time this week and made some more progress, funnels, main turrets and a couple of Northstar hacs completed (one more hac needed but only had 2 in stock so it will have to wait)41519352741_20afdfac6c_k.jpg40806408554_5f9d9ea057_k.jpg

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Hi

Managed to get a few more of what seems like a never ending stream of small bits n pieces put together. I normally start with a hull then build, paint and add individual subassemblies but because I can't really start work on the hull yet its forcing me to focus on bits I can sort. Hopefully I will feel the benefit once main construction finally gets underway.....

 

4" mount belongs to HMS Belfast (thought i had lost the last one but found it again!)

Twin 20mm mounts are a combination of Pontos barrels, fFyhawk etch and scraps of plastic.

 

 

 

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Evening All

 

Finally got a bit fed up with making small bits n pieces so decided to make a start with some of the bigger deck houses and posed them with the hull to kid myself into thinking I was making progress lol they are only roughly blocked out at the mo and need tidied up then details like potholes/doors etc added but made a change dealing with some parts I could actually see!

 

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Been making reasonable progress on this since I decided to go ahead however this will probably be the last update for a week or so as I am away for 3 days in sunny Scotland from tomorrow then start a new job on Tuesday. Got a few more small deckhouses sorted and just about knocked up the Northstar pompoms (amazingly detailed and look very accurate but far too fiddly for my fat fingers!!)

 

Also just received the first sheet of deck tread this week so when I do get back to this will probably make a start sorting the hull out.

 

 

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Not had a very productive modelling week after starting a new job however I have managed to just about finish the main forward superstructure block. Hopefully next week I will make a start on the main hull.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All

Unusually pleasant weather lately has limited bench time however I have managed to just about finish work on the main part of the hull sides and started adding detail to the focastle deck.

I've also added a few picks with the loose unfinished deckhouses and duff copy funnel/turrets.

 

All set now to start some painting as soon as Soveriegn release those new colours!

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi All

 

Been a while however I lost a little motivation for various reasons, ranging from nice weather to duff plans from Profile Morskie (if anyones looking to purchase their HMS Swifture set, be very careful they contain more than a few inaccuracies)

 

Another reason for the lack of progress was waiting for colourcoats new paints to be released, i've now got hold of the ones I need for this build so spent the last few days painting/masking/painting/masking.......... ....., TBH I am really not sure how accurate my colour interpretation is, my references gave a pallet of G10, B15, B30 & B55, ive used these colours however after viewing all the photos I can find of her in disruptive camo its obvious that both the pattern and some of the patchs appear to differ over time (there are definate differences from before/after the refit that repositioned the crane) as well as differences with my main colour reference (Warship perspectives) In the end I had to make a decision so here she is in the pattern/colours I chose.

 

All I can say of the results are, well shes very bright! weathering will no doubt tone this down slighty. On holiday from next weekend for 10days so not a lot of progress coming up however I hope to tidy up the paint this week as well as maybe start the weathering process.

 

 

 

 

 

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Sunglasses time. That does look very bright indeed and CB.3098 doesn't really put those colours together much. Indeed B55 rarely appears outwith Western Approaches type schemes except for the seldom-seen Standard Scheme B in late 1944 onwards.

 

Might the panels identified as B55 be G45 instead?

 

Can you share the photos you are using for the scheme?

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Hi Jamie

 

I have some photos on a dvd from Ray Bean covering Fiji class cruisers, few images of the net and theres also some really good side views on the imperial war museum site (from before the refit that moved the crane). looking through the warship perspective series there are an awful lot of disruptive schemes using B55 as a base so if your thinking its wrong you may have opened a whole new can of worms but I wish you all the best trying to fathom it out! and if you publish your results on here will follow just as avidly as I did with your work on the actual colors. Good luck!!

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47 minutes ago, salmo G said:

Hi Jamie

 

I have some photos on a dvd from Ray Bean covering Fiji class cruisers, few images of the net and theres also some really good side views on the imperial war museum site (from before the refit that moved the crane). looking through the warship perspective series there are an awful lot of disruptive schemes using B55 as a base so if your thinking its wrong you may have opened a whole new can of worms but I wish you all the best trying to fathom it out! and if you publish your results on here will follow just as avidly as I did with your work on the actual colors. Good luck!!

 

Hi,

 

I hope this isn't too much of an intrusion? Something just doesn't feel right here so I have looked in Raven's book, traced the B&W artwork and painted the colours using the new Colourcoats myself - but ditching B55 and using G45 instead. I think I have also interpreted different panels as being different tones to you - but that's a second order concern.

 

From darkest to lightest I have used G10, B15, B30 and G45

 

Starting with the back of Raven's book, we may get some insight into the root of the issue:

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B15 was made using 61lbs of white lead, 0.5lbs of black, 14lbs (2 x 7lb cans) of Pattern 371 blue black (ultramarine and black, 7lbs of which is the complete staining pigment in 507C / G45), an additional 11.5lbs of straight ultramarine and 1lb of unspecified green. Raven shows a dark grey.

 

B30 was made using 58lbs of white lead and 9lbs of zinc white, 20lbs of Pattern 371 blue black, an extra 0.5lb of straight ultramarine and 0.5lb of unspecified green. Raven shows an sort of greyish olive.

 

G20 was made using 50lbs of white lead and 28lbs of zinc white, plus 1.5lbs of ochre yellow and 0.5lbs of unspecified green. Raven shows a dark grey.

 

B20 was made by mixing equal portions of B15 and B30.

 

B55 was made using 40lbs of lead white and 47lbs of zinc white, plus 2lbs of Pattern 371 blue-black and 2 ounces of green - Raven shows a neutral grey.

 

G45 was made using 50lbs of lead white and 28lbs of zinc white, plus one full 7lb can of Pattern 371 blue-black - Raven shows a medium green.

 

G10 was made using 56lbs of lead white and 21lbs of zinc white, plus one full 7lb can of Pattern 370A blue-black (a much stronger staining blue-black - i.e. not bulked out with inert content) - Raven's render looks fine.

 

G5 was made using 72lbs of lead white and 12lbs of black (which you'd think made neutral grey, but black pigment is seldom actually black and G5 and MS1 measure slightly greenish) - Raven's render looks fine.

 

 

So in conclusion, what has been printed on the book cover of the B&G series paints are in conflict with Dominie's artwork reproduced in colour inside the book (Dominie's illustrations are very good - just ignore the names assigned to the colours later) and as above, in conflict with the implications from the known pigmentation. If the book cover did coincide with Raven's understanding of the colours (i.e. not just poor colour fidelity in printing) then it stands to reason that colours would be misidentified and incorrectly assigned to schemes.

 

 

I would like to have a crack at this again using different combinations of colours but will lack the time I think - but here's Ceylon coloured in using G45 instead and for me at least, this looks and feels a bit more natural.

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Should you wish, I have 1 litre of the colour G55 was designed at. I made it before fully appreciating that there was no evidence it was ever introduced. It's technically a blue-green, but anyone would call it a pale grey. It's not unlike MS4A in appearance. I wasn't planning to actually release this paint as at this time I don't believe it ever existed. It's easier to find references for B55 

 

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There certainly are some camouflage patterns, for small ships at least, which involve B55, and they do look rather funky. Note however that none seem to use the 3 original B&G series blues (i.e. ignoring B20 which didn't exist when CB.3098 was published in May 1943)

 

It just seems a bit "full on" on a cruiser. Perhaps that's just from not being used to seeing it?

 

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Hi Jamie

 

Your a mine of useful info and much more knowledgable than myself on such matters! I agree that she looks a little garish at the mo and your G45 (or even your hypothetical G55 may well look more acceptable) At the end of the day i chose the G10, B15, B30 & B55 scheme because I quite liked the idea of a blue cruiser. I won't even attempt to comment on the rights or wrongs of it from a historical perspective as i've never done any reseach into the relevent documents (unlike yourself and your colleauges) nor have I any experience of interpreting B & W photos, all I would add are the following.

  • I have not applied any fading at the mo, weathering will knock the "zing" back a little and a touch of white in the colors may make for a more in scale appearance (depending upon which side of the fence people sit with regards to that particular debate!)
  • The Warship perspective book does contain a LOT of ships with B55 as a base color for the latter years of the war, including ships of cruiser size and above, there are also plenty of ships using G45 as a base, it would be interesting to know HOW Alan Raven decided upon the colours he chose, ie was it just study of period photos or was there other evidence in his locker as well?
  • Earlier in the war there were base colours of 45 and 55LRV (507C and MS4A) B55 seems to be the only late war color with a similar LRV to the MS4A available earlier in the war (i think i am right in saying this looking at your colour info?) maybe schemes which would have had MS4A earlier in the war used B55 late on?
  • I do like those rather fetching schemes you have shown above, now who will produce me one of those trawlers in 1/350 please?
  • The same 4 colours I have used are used in a  number of schemes for larger cruisers and carriers in ravens book?
  • One reason we never see this type of colour combination on models is simple as you aluded to, there aren't many kits of late war british ships available! (at least in 1/350 that i work in, realise that 1/700 is much better catered for at least with resin) now if manufacturers produced a few more we may see some seriously bright ships using your new colours!

 

What i may do is just sleep on it and have a mull when i am away next week wandering around the wonders of the dolomites!

 

 

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