.

[fewr9fkr9595]

Bit of a longwinded post but something I’ve been working on concurrently which I may have alluded to earlier in the thread. 

 

The Exhaust area. Deserves upgrading because the rest of the kit is so nice. 

 

So the tubes in the kit are split length ways and quite deep. With the ridges inside seam removal would be about impossible. The nozzles aren’t too bad for plastic but quite simple in some areas. The inner parts are smooth. Aswell as the outer petals.

Compared to some plastic GE nozzles in other kits like the fujimi tomcat and tamiya f-16cj, whose nozzles have a depression/demarcation on the petals to facilitate painting of the ‘rub’ areas. These finemolds nozzles would need decals or the rub areas masked and sprayed. 

 

Anyways here they are the standard ones: 

 

There is at least some detail ridges in the overlap area (circled) compared to say hobbyboss nozzles. 

 

Inside the first part of the tube after the nozzle is smooth  

 

This is a cut down Eduard brassin F-16cj for tamiya nozzle which is a good size match for the finemolds shrouds. I tried the fujimi plastic ones but the ID was too great. 

 

So onto the tubes. 

 

First off - GE tomcat tubes are a constant diameter along their length. There are no GE tomcat resin aftermarket tubes that I am aware of. The GE tubing that comes with the above Eduard F16 exhausts are F16 specific - short, tapered and have a cross hatch pattern inside. So no good for a tomcat with its long constant ID and ring pattern inside. Aires do P&W tubes for tomcats but the tubes narrow and step down half way along.

So what I have done is cut two P&W tubes and used the ‘wider’ halves from each. 

In this pic you can see where I have cut the narrowing part off just short so I can sand the rest down. 

 

Here are the two wide ID cut off bits testing for length against the standard nozzle and tubing. 

Note - the red squiggled part of the eduard nozzle was cut off too in the end as that bit was a narrower ID than the aires tube bits.  

 

So here is the final master made up. In the end it was just the nozzle only from the eduard exhaust used and then two aires ‘wide’ tube sections. The dashed lines show the 3 parts that make it up. 

 

Here is the master primed to check it over. Seam smooth on the outside, no steps to catch in the mold. I deepened the grooves between the petals a touch. Also compare the detail in the overlap area on these eduard nozzles to the plastic ones above. 

 

One showing the inside. The dashed line is where the join is between the two aires tube sections. No obvious step  

 

Some overall views of it. 

 

 

 

 

So the mold was made last week and today I got the first two casts out of it. Here they are with the master below. 

 

 

Whilst on the topic of casting, when I did these I also used my intake trunking mold for the first time too  

 

 

If you are interested in either of these to either pimp (exhaust) or reduce work & seam filling (intakes) on your finemolds cat just PM me. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read all of this if you are still awake!  

[trickyrich]

I love it!!! Those rear units are perfect, you went to a lot of trouble to get them right and you did. I think they were really worth the effort. Anyone seeing these units and not knowing the model would think they're from a 1/32nd beastie or maybe a 1/48th, but never a 1/72nd!

 

Your detailing work is a real joy to watch........plus lots of good tricks and tips to pinch as well! 

[fewr9fkr9595]

Thanks Rich. 

 

Next other big job that may need the help of resin remodelling is the pilots. 

 

The picture of them waving the flag which I want to replicate has them visors down with no masks on. Try and find that configuration on any pilot either kit or aftermarket! Especially with those later style helmets. 

Another thing to try and sort out is the RIO has his sleeves up! 

 

Cue scrolling through hundreds of google image pics of 1/72 pilots to try and find bits that can be cobbled together...

 

A possible candidate are pj productions swidish gripen pilots. One figure from the pair has a similar type of helmet with visor down that may pass in 1/72. Problem is he is wearing a mask. So the plan is to perhaps try and drill/cut out the face/mask part and then replace with a bare face/head. 

 

Watch this space...

[Sting67]

Hi,

 

I'm following your Tomcat builds with big interest. Excellent detailing!

You are searching some pilot figures with a specific configuration. Unfortunately, I don't know of anything that fits, but what about these figures here. They have to be modified but maybe they are good to work with.

 

Ramon

[fewr9fkr9595]

2 hours ago, Sting67 said:

Hi,

 

I'm following your Tomcat builds with big interest. Excellent detailing!

You are searching some pilot figures with a specific configuration. Unfortunately, I don't know of anything that fits, but what about these figures here. They have to be modified but maybe they are good to work with.

 

Ramon

 

Hi Ramon,

 

Yes I have considered those figures, see post number 16 on page one of this thread. 

I ordered them a month ago but nothing has turned up as of yet. I emailed them too about it last week but no response yet. 

 

So thats why now I am looking at alternative options.... 

[Sting67]

Just now, Tony Oliver said:

 

Hi Ramon,

 

Yes I have considered those figures, see post number 16 on page one of this thread. 

I ordered them a month ago but nothing has turned up as of yet. I emailed them too about it last week but no response yet. 

 

So thats why now I am looking at alternative options.... 

Oh, I missed that information.

Hmmm... I have already ordered a few things. I think I already ordered stuff there three times. Only once there was a very minor missing detail, but I got it afterwards and everything was perfect.

 

Keep on getting in contact with Modern Hobbies. I think I read somewhere that they use to produce everything freshly when an order comes in. This may take a bit longer than having everything stored and ready to ship. The quality, however, is good.

 

Ramon

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

12 hours ago, Tony Oliver said:

Another thing to try and sort out is the RIO has his sleeves up! 

Its a weird suggestion but have you looked at 1/72 soldiers ? Sometimes infantry or armor figures have there sleeves rolled up and i cant think a set of infantry in that scale is all that expensive. Maybe even 1/76 if they still make them ? Size isn't all that different and i would think they would be adaptable to your needs. 

 

Dennis

[Sgt.Squarehead]

A Preiser (or similar high quality hard-plastic) head with a scratch made helmet might be your best bet. 

 

This set from Revell might be an even better starting point:  http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2184

 

 

[fewr9fkr9595]

So made an attempt at some pilots. Nothing heard back from modern hobbies still. Need to move on because group builds have a deadline! 

Plus want to get these all sorted & fitted before I start painting the plane to minimise handling. 

 

Decided to work with what I had in the stash, for the bodies and seats at least anyways. Still need to sort the heads/helmets out but that’s easily done at the end. These A/B quickboost seats and pilots are good. Used them on my hobbyboss sundowner. 

 

Ingredients -

 

take a quickboost f14 a/b pilot and seat, remove seat. Scrape seatbelts from quickboost D seat and combine together untill it looks right. Kinda. 

 

 

Placed the head (incorrect helmet for this build) on to get a feel for them. Either the dudes are too small or the seats are too big. Most pics of D’s including the one I am trying to represent their heads are level with the tops of the seats. 

 

 

They look a bit small so I gave them a boost with milliput. 

 

 

Then sealed all around as I may recast these. 

 

 

 

It has rised them up a bit however still not good enough I think. Brushed on a bit of grey stynylrez (still wet)  to see how the milliput has set. 

 

 

May pop them off yet and place them on some other smaller ‘D’ seats I have in the stash. That way the dudes will be in proportion to the seats, but may have to shim the bottom to raise them up overall in the pit if that makes sense. 

 

I will try and get a picture of the different D seats all together so you can see the variation in size between them. Its quite worrying. Really. 

 

Gru-7’s on the other hand are more constant across different companies. 

 

Thanks for looking. 

 

Ps I will get pictures of the finished cockpit interiors up soon. 

 

Also will update with something about decals being too light/wrong colour and not really working as intended (like the problem with the FCM sundowners low viz) This was discovered on my quest for a scheme for the ‘open for maintenance’ tps bird of this pair. 

 

1st world problems hey...

 

[fewr9fkr9595]

On 06/05/2018 at 23:33, Sgt.Squarehead said:

A Preiser (or similar high quality hard-plastic) head with a scratch made helmet might be your best bet. 

 

This set from Revell might be an even better starting point:  http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2184

 

 

 

Hi mate, yeah used those revell pilots in a couple of my hobbyboss tomcats -  vf’s 32 & 102. 

 

They were ok but a bit soft on the details. 

Fancy some crisp resin ones to dress up these finemolds cats. 

 

Cheers. 

 

[trickyrich]

some interesting slicing and dicing going on there, glad you knew which went where!

 

If the pilots a bit short just say it's Tom Cruise and that he forgot his booster seat!! 

 

Nice bit of work though.

[fewr9fkr9595]

Ok so first world problems: 

 

Decided on doing a drab reaper no. 165  for the ‘open’ tps bird. 

 

Looked at the sheet and thought the markings were a bit light. So its a case of where they look dark enough against the white background but not on the grey.

Similar problem that there was with the fcm vf111 sheet. I think for this one that all the mouth and insignia/stencil markings need to be towards gunship grey (36118) instead of ghost grey, with the tail reaper/modex/AD towards engine grey (36081) instead of the gunship grey that they are... 

I have emailed them these pictures and findings too. They said they will look into it. 

 

So here they are on the paints they recommend, and then on some ‘adjusted’ colours to get the contrast to work but will result in too light a model I think. 

 

Overview. On my test swatches the mr paint and Mr. Color shades are pretty much the same. 

 

Spares on the dark ghost they would be on as the instructions recommend.  The stars and bars should be darker, not lighter. 

 

Not much different on the Mr paint planned for this build. 

 

So I sprayed the nose cone using lighter greys to test the mouth (crown jewel of the scheme)

 

On the bottom instead of 36375 its a mix of 75% white and 25% 36375. A very light mix.

The sides are a 50/50 mix of white and 36375 instead of 36320

The top is plain 36375 instead of 35237. 

So the lightest colour from the normal tps scheme is now the darkest! 

Decal was applied and then flat coated. Still not enough contrast as mouth isn’t prominent enough on the sides. 

 

Overall 

 

Bottom

 

Sides

 

Top

 

 

So beware if buying these decals they will need a very pale painted  plane to work. 

 

All of which doesn't matter as @Robert has sold me his whole vf sheet with the correct darker markings   Although now fell in love with vx9 254 off it instead...

Also some reaper grey stuff on the way from @Andrew too, cheers! 

 

Bye for now and thanks for looking. 

 

Ps link to usn tps comparison thread I did. 

 

 

[FIGHTS ON]

looking really good so far. I share your pain with trying to find good sized pilots for seats - and agree with your build, i.e. probably not good to have a pilot's head "taller" than the canopy breaker on top of the seat!!

[Robert]

Was glad to help. I have a 1/48 VX-9 sheet and guess which kit that is going on when its released.

 

Robert

[Sting67]

@Tony:

 

Thanks a lot for sharing this valuable information about the decal's color mismatches. Especially the Reaper decals are what I'm also interested in. But it's a real disappointment and a waste of money to get expensive decals with the wrong color.

 

I also have this dilemma with the B-2. Twobobs designed the decals for the Modelcollect B-2. The decal sheet is nice and contains the most important decals (with some missings, however).

Then Twobobs launched a nice own decal to decorate all existing B-2s. Unfortunately, Twobobs own decal sheet is without the long walkways/No Step stencils. They recommend to use the ones from the kit's decal sheet. So far, no problem, I ordered the Twobobs B-2 decal and thought, that Twobobs let it all print by Microscale (also the kit decal). Guess what... I received the Twobobs B-2 decal, compared it with the kit's decal and saw a notable color mismatch between the greys. This is clearly visible. That is a no-go and a disappointment. All decals come from the same source and are printed by the same source and still that. That means, I cannot build the unit I wanted to build because of the differences in the color shades. Frustrating.

 

I found something. Maybe you know it already. The decals doesn't look that bad. Click!

Ramon

Edited May 11, 2018 by Sting67

[fewr9fkr9595]

More on the vf101 low viz grey scheme decals. 

 

Here is another DXM sheet (bought 2) along with the VF one that I bought from Robert. 

 

The way that VF has done it is print all of the markings in one dark grey. Which is fine for everything apart from the modex and tail art, which are clearly darker and even depicted as so on their own placement guide! Strange. 

DXM has the correct idea by printing their marking for this scheme in two greys, pity that the lighter one they used is not dark enough. The darker one of theirs for the dark bits is a better match than the single tone used for all by VF. If that makes sense and you’re still awake. 

 

I reckon if you’re fussy (like me) the best way to depict an all grey reaper would to be a combination of both sheets. 

Use all the gunship grey stuff (mouth and insignia/stencils) from VF, and use the darker (almost 36081/engine grey) tail art, modex and AD code from DXM. 

 

Both sheets. 

 

Close up. Note slightly darker reapers by DXM. 

 

VF’s placement guide showing an almost black modex and tail art which they don’t provide. 

Same again. Tail tops & reapers are shown as 36081 which the reaper decal should be in too. 

 

Screenshot of a real beast showing the greys. 

Most of the front side fuselage markings are scuffed/worn and faded/dirty from crew access.  However the mouth matches the intake warning which is darker than the top colour of the tps paint (so those markings are/would have been 36118)

The tail art & tops, modex and AD are clearly darker and are 36081

 

Ramble over! 

[Gekko_1]

1 hour ago, Tony Oliver said:

 

Screenshot of a real beast showing the greys. 

Most of the front side fuselage markings are scuffed/worn and faded/dirty from crew access.  However the mouth matches the intake warning which is darker than the top colour of the tps paint (so those markings are/would have been 36118)

The tail art & tops, modex and AD are clearly darker and are 36081

 

Ramble over! 

 

Tony, FWIW, I believe the intake warning and all of the markings under the cockpit etc should all be FS. 35237 and therefore so is the shark mouth. The FS.35237 on the top of the nose cone is simply heavily faded. The paint on this airframe looks very tatty and bleached.

It looks like that initial shark mouth decal you tried was printed in FS. 36320 which is why there was such an issue with it as it would be going onto an FS. 36320 background.

Regards

Richard.

[fewr9fkr9595]

52 minutes ago, Gekko_1 said:

 

Tony, FWIW, I believe the intake warning and all of the markings under the cockpit etc should all be FS. 35237 and therefore so is the shark mouth. The FS.35237 on the top of the nose cone is simply heavily faded. The paint on this airframe looks very tatty and bleached.

It looks like that initial shark mouth decal you tried was printed in FS. 36320 which is why there was such an issue with it as it would be going onto an FS. 36320 background.

Regards

Richard.

 

Cheers Richard, I was hoping you might chime in  

 

With regards to that sharkmouth on the real plane - do you believe its 35237 because that’s what it should be, as in thats the norm but not the rule for stencils on a tps scheme, or is that what your eyes are telling you? Yes I agree the plane is faded but the mouth looks far too dark to be that blue grey. Never seen the uppers of a tomcat as dark as that mouth or intake warning are?

 

edit-

The eye above the mouth looks to match the blue grey upper surface on the nose however, surely then the highest part of the mouth would show some fading too? 

 

 

Some other points unrelated to the real planes colors, a bit more on trying to use colours to achieve the correct contrast to get those decals to look right: 

 

On my decal test - I think those dxm mouths are lighter than dark ghost, as the stars and bars insignia (printed same color as mouth) thats on the swatch is lighter than the dark ghost it is on.

 

On that practice nose cone the sides that should be 36320 have been painted in a 50/50 mix of white and 36375. On those areas the decal is only just visible against this lightened ghost grey?

 

This is all based on the assumption that the Mr paint shades are correct in the first place. 

Whatever the colours DXM have used to print the sheet - they don’t work on the colours they suggest (mr c is same as mr p) to use them on and/or have the wrong contrast.

 

Also the single grey of all the VF markings is darker than 35237. 

 

Reckon I should try some of those spare modex numbers (they are same colour as mouth) from the VF sheet and use them to mess about with on scrap to find a grey that will give the correct contrast to match the real plane. What you think? 

 

Tony. 

[trickyrich]

this is really interesting and actually a whole topic on it's own. 

 

A lot of this will come down to how you want to finish her? factory/paint job fresh or a little worse for wear. The variations in the decals is a wee bit surprising but not unexpected as I've found out on other builds. 

 

You will have to do a bit of mix and matching to get them right, then you could always airbrush a extremely thin wash over them to adjust their tones to what you're after?

 

Just be a wee bit careful with the reference photo's as often they've been "corrected" in photoshop etc to how someone thinks/imagines they should look like.

 

I know you sort it out, it's an awesome build to follow!

[Gekko_1]

1 hour ago, Tony Oliver said:

 

Cheers Richard, I was hoping you might chime in  

 

With regards to that sharkmouth on the real plane - do you believe its 35237 because that’s what it should be, as in thats the norm but not the rule for stencils on a tps scheme, or is that what your eyes are telling you? Yes I agree the plane is faded but the mouth looks far too dark to be that blue grey. Never seen the uppers of a tomcat as dark as that mouth or intake warning are?

 

edit-

The eye above the mouth looks to match the blue grey upper surface on the nose however, surely then the highest part of the mouth would show some fading too? 

 

 

Some other points unrelated to the real planes colors, a bit more on trying to use colours to achieve the correct contrast to get those decals to look right: 

 

On my decal test - I think those dxm mouths are lighter than dark ghost, as the stars and bars insignia (printed same color as mouth) thats on the swatch is lighter than the dark ghost it is on.

 

On that practice nose cone the sides that should be 36320 have been painted in a 50/50 mix of white and 36375. On those areas the decal is only just visible against this lightened ghost grey?

 

This is all based on the assumption that the Mr paint shades are correct in the first place. 

Whatever the colours DXM have used to print the sheet - they don’t work on the colours they suggest (mr c is same as mr p) to use them on and/or have the wrong contrast.

 

Also the single grey of all the VF markings is darker than 35237. 

 

Reckon I should try some of those spare modex numbers (they are same colour as mouth) from the VF sheet and use them to mess about with on scrap to find a grey that will give the correct contrast to match the real plane. What you think? 

 

Tony. 

 

I managed, after a very quick Google search, to find this shot of 165...............

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/78/41/d17841f76f14a14e2253bcb5c3e13ac5.jpg

Yes, I still believe the eye and thin lips are FS 35237, but the front of the open mouth does indeed seem darker. I don't think its a trick of the light, but it could be fresher paint?

The mouth of the DXM sheet could be 36375? Does the decal have a white background or is it just light blue/grey ink only? (after you've soaked the decal off the sheet have a look under the decal to see if what was printed first.

The 'star n bar' you applied to the 36320 looks to be a lightened version of 36375. Or possibly a dark version of 36495?

There's a chance the decal doesn't have a white background and therefore the ink used won't have enough density, making it slightly translucent which is just adding to the issue. Cartograf's decals are printed with the best inks available and do not need white to be printed first, most others do though. So if DXM have left out this step it may explain what you're experiencing?

VF's decals look to be printed in a 'guesswork' grey and look completely wrong to my eye.

[fewr9fkr9595]

34 minutes ago, Gekko_1 said:

 

I managed, after a very quick Google search, to find this shot of 165...............

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/78/41/d17841f76f14a14e2253bcb5c3e13ac5.jpg

Yes, I still believe the eye and thin lips are FS 35237, but the front of the open mouth does indeed seem darker. I don't think its a trick of the light, but it could be fresher paint?

The mouth of the DXM sheet could be 36375? Does the decal have a white background or is it just light blue/grey ink only? (after you've soaked the decal off the sheet have a look under the decal to see if what was printed first.

The 'star n bar' you applied to the 36320 looks to be a lightened version of 36375. Or possibly a dark version of 36495?

There's a chance the decal doesn't have a white background and therefore the ink used won't have enough density, making it slightly translucent which is just adding to the issue. Cartograf's decals are printed with the best inks available and do not need white to be printed first, most others do though. So if DXM have left out this step it may explain what you're experiencing?

VF's decals look to be printed in a 'guesswork' grey and look completely wrong to my eye.

 

Yes it does seem that way on that link pic of yours. 

155 and 162 also show different greys in different photos of the same plane, but majority of them the main part/teeth of the mouth are appreciably darker than the upper surface colour. 

 

Although the VF decals are perhaps a touch too dark, at least thats a good starting point to enough contrast with the base greys to begin with. I will perhaps do as @trickyrich suggested and can fade them with a ligher sprayed filter to adjust them. 

 

Also yes you are correct the DXM decals are printed by cartograph. I can’t remember what the undersides were like. I will soak one off tomorrow and have get an answer for you mate. 

 

Anyways, all this distraction about the second build which is languishing far behind the first main effort - retro gull reaper 160. Made some good progress with the second attempt at pilots. Better results than the first go a few posts back. A bit of scratch work too. Plastic card. What a saviour. I reckon what I have achieved is passable in 1/72. Can’t afford anymore time or expense really chasing perfection. However should the modern hobbies avaitors turn up from canada I will at least have these current modded dudes to work against for size and position etc. As in content with the fit and how they are going to work that I can now start making progress with the airframe to get it ready for the paint shop. Need to polish out mold seam along the top of canopy and a few other small fiddly bits that I didn’t want to damage during all the handling from pilot test fitting. 

 

Will get some pics of improved pilots/seats/helmets tomorrow. 

 

Good night gentleman! 

[fewr9fkr9595]

Ok so the pits. 

 

In a nutshell the panels were painted black, drybrushed In gradually lighter shades till just white to hit the buttons. Then the various red and yellow bits like alongside  the throttle  and toggle switches picked out using the Daco book as reference. A bit of an enamel wash then some clear green on the screens with a touch of extra gloss. 

 

Pilots office. 

 

Rio’s position. 

 

Overall. 

 

With an IP fitted. 

 

The gull retro reaper that will be powered on had a green applied to the screens first. 

 

Clear green added over. 

 

Tilted to catch the light. 

 

Enamel wash in pit. 

 

Finished pair. The greener ‘on’ screens are in the right hand side pit but the glare/gloss has washed them out. 

 

Joining the front fuselage to pancake. Again join on a panel line. And the fit is perfect. 

 

 

 

 

Now the cockpit sill should’ve  been added prior to this step (when joining front halves) but then you cant use the canopy to mask off the pit because the raised details on it prevents a flush fit. (need to be sanded off for a closed canopy)

 

So I removed the pins and cut back a ledge a bit (all circled) so this part can be easily painted black separately on it own and slid in at the end. Plus the canopy can be used to mask off the pit and get painted at same time as the airframe - there is just enough of a ledge to tack it on temporarily with some pva

 

 

Cheers, Tony 

[trickyrich]

awesome looking cockpit and IP's Tony, well done!!! 

[fewr9fkr9595]

Update - seats and round 2 with the pilots.

 

Here a few seats to show the variation in sizes. Hobbyboss and hasegawa plastic ones are currently at the other end of the country. 

 

Order: Wolfpack, modern hobbies, finemolds stock, aries quickboost. 

 

 

So I redid the quickboost gru-7 pilots using the modern hobbies seats (been in stash for a year or so) and because the seats are smaller the pilots look more in proportion and not like little boys or tom cruise. 

 

Much happier now. 

Left is the first milliput boosted dude in the aries seat. Just placed the head on to see how they sit. 

 

 

And looks fine when in the jet, hello! 

 

So the next job was the heads. Later helmets with visors down. 

So I sanded off the visor housing bumps on top of one of these older style lids.  Thinned some plastic card and cut a rough visor shape out. Took a few attempts. Curved it by a rolling against a toothpick. 

Tacked on at the edges with a touch of superglue. Visor looks a bit big but I think its just because it stands out so much as its white. Since been primed and looks alot better. 

Thinks it work for 1/72? 

 

 

 

 

 

A reminder of what I am trying to achieve reference height, pose and equipment. 

 

 

 

Thanks for looking! 

[trickyrich]

that seat and pilot combo looks much better. Interesting the seat comparison, I have found Wolfpack stuff to be a little on the small side before, don't know why.

 

Just wondering if you had the equivalent of the $2 shop there, as I'm think they might have something with the mirrored plastic you're after for the visors in some toy or something? If it was thin plastic then you might be able to use that, maybe even carefully heat it up and shape it as required?