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Avro 504K, 1/32, Scratchbuild


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20 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Hi Phoenix,

 

Now that I’m getting close to the end of this project I can confirm that my next build will definitely be a pusher and will have its propeller at the rear...

 


 

 

After all, most ships are like that!

 

Steve.

Going to be one that goes on the water this time rather than under it?

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1 hour ago, bar side said:

Going to be one that goes on the water this time rather than under it?

One that went over the water but is now under it, except for its engine which is now in a museum.

 

There’s a puzzle for you to ponder.
 

I ‘ll give you a clue... ‘Fremantle’

 

 

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4 hours ago, JohnHaa said:

I wonder, was printing the wing roundels on your PC not an easier solution. I had to print some large American  roundels for my Atlantic C-2A , they were quite large but it worked out well.

Yes I must learn how to do that one day, in fact I have at least one future project in mind for which it will be a necessity.
I’m not sure if our family printer would work though as it’s an ink-jet & I think is this requires a laser printer? Any advice or info welcome,

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26 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

One that went over the water but is now under it, except for its engine which is now in a museum.

 

There’s a puzzle for you to ponder.
 

I ‘ll give you a clue... ‘Fremantle’

 

 

Something about an X steamship?

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17 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Yes I must learn how to do that one day, in fact I have at least one future project in mind for which it will be a necessity.
I’m not sure if our family printer would work though as it’s an ink-jet & I think is this requires a laser printer? Any advice or info welcome,

If you print a decal on an inkjet, give the printed decal a quick spray with clear car laquer, It fixes it without any ink smudging or running. 

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42 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

One that went over the water but is now under it, except for its engine which is now in a museum.

 

There’s a puzzle for you to ponder.
 

I ‘ll give you a clue... ‘Fremantle’

 

 

Powered by a condor engind, only 1 built?  1924 out of the fairy factory?

Just a guess

Steve

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22 minutes ago, Stevejj said:

Powered by a condor engind, only 1 built?  1924 out of the fairy factory?

Just a guess

Steve

Good guess but no cigar. It’s a ship this time not an aeroplane and it’s going to be a long, long time before I do another biplane. 😄

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, bar side said:

Something about an X steamship?

Yes! I think you have it, well done! ‘X’ marks the spot.

 

Looks like I might have to start the new thread this evening.

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Ha ha I've got it now. You could build 2 one with paddle wheels and as she was when lost( including open deck planks and rotting hull) I shall follow the build, it will be great.

All the best 

Steve

PS hope I HAVE got it now or I will look a bit silly

Edited by Stevejj
Forgot bits
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12 minutes ago, Stevejj said:

Ha ha I've got it now. You could build 2 one with paddle wheels and as she was when lost( including open deck planks and rotting hull) I shall follow the build, it will be great.

All the best 

Steve

Yes I did briefly consider building both - Very briefly!😀 I will of course be building her in her Western Australia tramp-steamer configuration.

 

l am pleased this rather obscure subject has piqued your interest.

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Ps seems appropriate!   Keep thinking of the PS Waverley.  Bit of a railway fan, so a steam paddle ship run by the LNER is like a boat version of the Flying Scotsman.  And also from Glasgow, but happily still sailing

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22 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Yes I did briefly consider building both - Very briefly!😀 I will of course be building her in her Western Australia tramp-steamer configuration.

 

l am pleased this rather obscure subject has piqued your interest.

 

Nah... Build both! build both!

 

You know you really want to!

 

:thumbsup:

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7 hours ago, Murdo said:

At least you laugh instead of saying bad words.

I dunno so much...

 

The other day I mentioned the phrase ‘Single screw tramp steamer’ to one of my work colleagues- and she slapped me there and then! 😳


If you say the phrase ‘Paddle Steamer’ often enough and with a kiwi accent it starts to sound like ‘Piddle Streamer’ pretty soon..

 

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SS Xantho

 

OK Aviation Fans,  the Avro 504 project is getting towards it's natural conclusion - finally - so it's time to start another project.  As @bar side, @Stevejj and @Murdo have correctly worked out above, it's now time for me to move back to the maritime section where will I have a crack at modelling a single screw tramp steamer - the SS Xantho. This was the first ever steamer to operate in Western Australia and is a ship with a truly unique history.

 

 

This Avro 504  thread will continue however, as the Avro will be finished before work starts on the Xantho.  It's just that there's no harm in getting some maritime research underway before cutting some wood!

 

Best Regards,

Bandsaw Steve

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10 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

... If you say the phrase ‘Paddle Steamer’ often enough and with a kiwi accent it starts to sound like ‘Piddle Streamer’ pretty soon. ...

As we age, 'Piddle Streamer' becomes a more frequent term. :giggle:

1 hour ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

... time for me to move back to the maritime section where will I have a crack at modelling a single screw tramp steamer - the SS Xantho. ...

Looking forward to seeing you back.

 

John

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Fair enough Marklo. I have numerous future aviation projects in mind so it’s only a matter of time before I’m back here and we catch up again.  Besides this 504 thread isn’t finished so you haven’t seen the last of me yet. 

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11 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

 Besides this 504 thread isn’t finished so you haven’t seen the last of me yet. 

Well seeing as how your mig build inspired be to do daft things like the caproni campini, and this one isn’t half bad either.  I sincerely hope not. ( I did lurk in your submarine thread and will probably do the same for the piddle steamer)

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  • 1 month later...

Rigging

 

It turns out that rigging a 1/32 scale model biplane, especially a twin bay biplane, is a very unpleasant experience especially if – like me – you don’t really know what you are doing.  Suffice to say rigging a biplane involves:

 

·         Tangled threads

·         Threads catching on things

·         Threads catching on things and then breaking those things off

·         Those things that get broken off flying off into the netherworld and having to be re-made and re-attached

·         Drilling lots and lots of holes – then finding that holes that have been drilled aren’t big enough and having to drill them again

·         Wearing an optivisor for hours and hours until your eyes hurt

·         Slopping superglue all over finished surfaces and then having to 're-finish' those surfaces (more of that in the next post)

·         Traces of glue getting on the thread and then sticking one bit of new thread back onto a finished bit of thread

·         Tools catching on finished thread and breaking it or cutting it necessitating re-work

·         Needles and other tools scratching finished paint surfaces

·         Lots and lots and lots and lots of swearing 😡

 

Suffice to say over the last week or so that I have been working on this rigging business I have found many ways of doing the job incorrectly and have many frustrating misadventures. I still do not claim to be any kind of expert in this area but here’s what I eventually found to work and – if I’m ever stupid enough to build a biplane again - I will do it this way from the start…

 

Find a clear, tidy, well-lit working area There’s a lot of fine, super-small scale, fiddly work going on here. The more mess and clutter that’s about the more things you will find that the thread can catch on and get damaged by. Make sure you have access to an optivisor at all stages of this job.

 

Most importantly, get hold of the very finest thinnest narrowest diameter sewing needles you can find. The finer the better. Ensure you have several of them, you need spares in case of them bending or breaking. In this case the needles’ size are ‘#15’ or 0.25mm in diameter.

TPpeh0S.jpg

 

The method that I used here sees the thread passing through a series of fine drilled holes and eyelets. The advantage of using super-fine needles is that the smaller the needle the smaller the hole you need to drill. Smaller holes are less obvious when the job is finished and are less likely to damage paint and so-forth during drilling.

 

I know that there are other ways of doing this but I think this ‘threading needle through holes’ method is overall the simplest and gives the most robust end result. Before you start, ensure that each attachment point – either hole or eyelet - is secure and open enough for the needle to pass through easily. It’s surprising how often I found a hole drilled a few months ago that had got clogged up with glue or paint or sawdust or whatever. In other words, get all the holes sorted out before you start threading.

 

Make a soft holding jig for the model. Here’s one I made years ago. It’s just a sheet of chipboard with some soft corrugated shaped foam ‘walls’ glued on to form a box into which the aeroplane sits quite nicely. To rig a biplane you need about five hands. I only have two but this arrangement is probably equivalent to another one and because it’s made from soft materials it does not damage the model.

6yZFq7R.jpg

 

Here it is in use.

Wivt1bs.jpg

 

Now get a needle-threading device as shown below. Ensure that the threading device is able to at least partly fit through the tiny eye of the tiny fine needle. 

0vAAM5L.jpg

 

The thread I am using is EZ line.

BzZBxiO.jpg

 

I’ve used this material before and find that it’s a good compromise between a convincing scale appearance, strength and stretchiness. It’s also relatively inexpensive and comes in a long roll (100 feet in this case) so losing a bit to breakage or damage is not the end of the world. Its only real drawback is that it is produced as a very fine ribbon, rather than as a true circular cross-section thread, so if it’s put in place twisted you can see the twists.

I also used some Mig Productions rigging line for the tail control lines as it was slightly thinner and has a true circular cross-section. However, this material is considerably more expensive and only comes in short lengths (just a few metres) so I used it much more sparingly.

 

With all of this preparation in place the actual rigging task is somewhat simplified. Thread the needle through a planned sequence of holes starting somewhere near the centre of the model and working outwards. ‘Simply’ stitch the thing up. Note however that all sorts of things will still go wrong – especially if you have fat fingers and no peripheral vision – so work slowly and carefully. It’s quicker that way.

Saf5UGt.jpg

 

On occasions where there is little space for the needle, you can cut the needle short as shown below. Here it’s only about 15mm long. Tweezers are often necessary and mean fewer puncture wounds in your fingers from handling the needle.

cb56BTd.jpg

 

Once you have a good length of thread in place, get a drop of cyanoacrylate superglue on one of your spare needles and pass the needle through the first hole in the sequence. Withdraw the needle and hold the thread still while the glue sets. Once it’s set and has a good grip on the thread gently tension the thread for the first segment and repeat the ‘dab of glue in the hole’ method at the next hole in line. Repeat until all of the first threaded sequence is glued in place and secured at each hole along its path. Once the entire thing is secure trim the surplus EZ line from either end. I’ve found it’s better to use a fine set of scissors than a scalpel for this final trim because there’s less chance of damaging a nearby thread and less chance of scraping paint.

 

Now repeat the whole process for the next sequence and keep going until the whole model is rigged. Be warned, it takes hours and causes eye-strain.

 

Here’s the result.  It’s not too bad but definitely not super-accurate and there’s a lot of tidying up of paint and so-forth following my ham-fisted early attempts.

NDjP58X.jpg

 

zbWoDTX.jpg

 

KSAHr4V.jpg

  

UJoPNBQ.jpg

 

Anyhow… the rigging’s done now.

Thank God.

 

Bandsaw Steve.

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She looks great Steve! Nicely done. 

My tip would be to forget the needle and just thread the line through the hole with tweezers.

Also, would you be terribly upset if I told you that all the flying wires (those going from low inboard, to high outboard) should be double wires?

 

(ducks and runs)

 

Stay safe,

 

Ian

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Just now, limeypilot said:

Also, would you be terribly upset if I told you that all the flying wires (those going from low inboard, to high outboard) should be double wires?

No, I am sure he is tickity boo with it, no problem, all is good in Steves world 🤪

 

 

                                              OR

 

He is running around the man cave screaming, kicking and generally loosing it☹️

 

Answers on a £20 note to Head in theClouds, 7........🤣

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1 hour ago, limeypilot said:

 

My tip would be to forget the needle and just thread the line through the hole with tweezers.

‘Just’ do that eh! 🙄

1 hour ago, limeypilot said:

Also, would you be terribly upset if I told you that all the flying wires (those going from low inboard, to high outboard) should be double wires?

 

Nope - I would not be terribly upset. I did know that all along and steadfastly continue to ignore the fact! 😊

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Nice work Steve. Commiserations on the control lines. I sort of like rigging( which is just as well considering the types I build these days)

 

My one niggle is not being able to build in a linear manner i.e interior/build/fill sand/paint/decals.

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