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Avro 504K, 1/32, Scratchbuild


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I'm not sure about the slots for the struts. The mounting area was generally very narrow. More realistic would be the strut narrowed to almost a point with a brass pin inserted to locate into the wing. This would also give a good strong bond. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/iv78mLs7JEqKXg796

 

Ian 

Edited by limeypilot
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Yup. I use a pin vice and a piece of wire of the diameter I want the eyelet to be. I generally use .26mm wire for the eyelets (eBay) make a u shaped length of the .26 wire, grip the open ends in the pin vice. Insert the thicker wire into the loop and twist (gently) until the fine wire firms a neat loop around the thicker one. Remove from the vice and the thick wire and trim to length, easy enough once you get the hang of it.

001
a brace of eyelets.

 

P1020845
for the actual rigging I drill a blind hole and ca the eyelets in place then using fine line ( I use beadalon wild fire .2mm ebay again) and some 1mm heat shrink as turn buckles. Wire goes through heat shrink then eyelets then back through heat shrink. When the eyelets ca has set you can then tension the line at each end ca it tight and trim off the excess.  Some people use fine brass tub instead of the heat shrink.

Edited by Marklo
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6 hours ago, Marklo said:

I do agree the slot is more structural

Yes at this point I’m thinking more about structural integrity and the practicalities of building rather than accuracy per-se.

 

Unfortunately on the real aircraft the interplane struts both lean forward at a very rakish angle and terminate -at both ends- at a rather sharp, thin point.  My interplane struts will thin down a bit towards their ends but only a bit. I want to leave some meat on the bone for strength and workability and the ablility to set the strut at the correct angle. I think slots will allow me to do this with the lowest probability of me loosing my &$@!!!! and throwing the whole thing into the middle of a nearby freeway. 😱

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The photos of the primed model show that it is going to be a really super model when it is finished. Struts and their attachments are a pain in this scale -as are the turnbuckles and eyelets. I am going to have to try them out on my next 1/32 project however and I really admire you giving them a go on this model.

 

P

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On 10/27/2019 at 9:06 AM, Bandsaw Steve said:

'Bonging hoops' because they stop the wing tips bonging the ground

 

as opposed to bonging hoops that you stick in the... oh never mind

 

I think I have seen some folks do scale turnbuckles by passing two ends of a length of wire through a small tube and pulling it until just a small loop is left showing. Should be possible in 1/32 if smaller scales are doing it

 

 

I must say it looks quite nice once you've colored it in Steve.  I love that head on shot with the big cannon sticking out the front

 

 

 

Edited by hendie
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On 10/27/2019 at 5:36 PM, Marklo said:

Yup. I use a pin vice and a piece of wire of the diameter I want the eyelet to be. I generally use .26mm wire for the eyelets (eBay) make a u shaped length of the .26 wire, grip the open ends in the pin vice. Insert the thicker wire into the loop and twist (gently) until the fine wire firms a neat loop around the thicker one. Remove from the vice and the thick wire and trim to length, easy enough once you get the hang of it.

001
a brace of eyelets.

 

P1020845
for the actual rigging I drill a blind hole and ca the eyelets in place then using fine line ( I use beadalon wild fire .2mm ebay again) and some 1mm heat shrink as turn buckles. Wire goes through heat shrink then eyelets then back through heat shrink. When the eyelets ca has set you can then tension the line at each end ca it tight and trim off the excess.  Some people use fine brass tub instead of the heat shrink.

I think that I've found a quicker, if more wasteful of wire, way of making the eyelets and keeping them tidy until ready to use. Firstly wind  around  a mandrel  a coil of wire  like a helical spring. Take this coil of wire and holding it flat  twist it  in the middle to make a figure of eight.  You now have a number of small loops   coming out from the twist in the centre.  Twist each of these to make your eyelets but  don't cut them off from the centre until you are ready to use each one.

 

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Yep - I think I get what you mean. Good if you want lots of eyelets, but having a shank -as Marlklo suggests- is very useful. Of course you can cheat and cut the shank and loop off very small fish hooks. This is a bit more expensive but leaves a very strong and uniform shaped eyelet attached to a very strong shank. Furthermore the shank is often barbed so once shoved into its receiving hole ain’t goin nowhere!  Have a look at my Carpathia WIP build(towards the bottom of page 14) if you are interested.

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You  do get a shank, just make the individual loops big enough to  start with so  that once  the eyelets are twisted  there is  enough  to make the shank as well. I's a bit more fiddly  than doing them 9individualy  but at least it keeps them all together until such time as you want to cut them off and use them.

 

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Hmm, still not entirely convinced. By using a thick wire as an armature I get a pretty consistent loop diameter, not sure how it would go with this method, but I shall remain open minded, because hand twisting each individual eyelet is a bit of a pita especially as you need a surprisingly large number for the average biplane (4 for the u/c 16 for the cabane struts and 24  per bay for the rest on average) so your 504 would need 68 (or so) eyelets 

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7 hours ago, Marklo said:you need a surprisingly large number for the average biplane (4 for the u/c 16 for the cabane struts and 24  per bay for the rest on average) so your 504 would need 68 (or so) eyelets 

What!?!?!?!!!

 

68 of the damned things! 😱

This might be my last biplane. 😳

 

Something a bit more streamlined next time methinks. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

 

68 of the damned things!

 

Well, there's always the option of NOT doing them.

 

 

But then you would never be able to live with your self would you ?

 

Would you ?

 

and you could never show your face around the forum again.  Just sayin'

 

Perchance another visit to your haberdashery store where the young lady awaits??

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They kind of get ahead of you, my current build the laird and previous the Pfalz Dr1 had only four main rigging lines hence 8 eyelets each and it felt like cheating. Now that you mention it this might be why conversely my Dh4a has resolutely remained a monoplane for over a year now :) 

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9 hours ago, hendie said:

 

Well, there's always the option of NOT doing them.

 

 

But then you would never be able to live with your self would you ?

 

Would you ?

 

and you could never show your face around the forum again.  Just sayin’

Gutsy talk from a man with a Brisfit in his future, I’d say...

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You could, of course, just drill the wings and thread the rigging like us lesser 1:72 modellers. The turnbuckles etc are really not very visible, it's really just about a getting your rigging lines secure, and you can always add turnbuckles without the (in reality) non-existant loop-mounted-to-the-wing method! Marco's pic above definitely shows how overscale it can look to add those "details".

Ian 

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been hiding for quite a while....

 

as a fellow woodworker, out of interest, what glue do you use?

 

a modified PVA, aliphatic resin or Polyurethane?

 

lookin' good tho

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I must admit there is no right way as such, and yes I find rigging to be a fine line wrt scale and overscale ( my Airfix BE2c is probably my favourite rigging job and I know the wires are ever so slightly over scale) the 1mm heat shrink is probably ok at 1/32 ( it looks perfect on my Depredussin) I’ve since moved to .5 in 1/48 and in 1/72 I just drill and pull through the eyelets would have to be unfeasabily small for that scale. I have a 1:144 hp45 for which I bought some EZ line. So horses for courses or to paraphrase whatever you’re happiest with.

 

48704293346_9805ac393b_z.jpg

Not an eylet in sight :)

Edited by Marklo
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14 hours ago, SA80A2AR said:

 

as a fellow woodworker, out of interest, what glue do you use?

 

a modified PVA, aliphatic resin or Polyurethane?

 

 

Hello SA80,

 

for general sticking together of wood I tend to use exterior grade Aquadhere PVA which Mr Google says is a mix of PVA and Aliphatic adhesive (whatever that means).

if I want a really strong absolutely permanent bond I will sometimes use Selleys Liquid Nails but that’s rare. If gluing wood to metal or plastic I use two-part araldite (epoxy I think). I suspect that it’s two part nature - the user has to mix two agents together to activate the glue - puts some people off this stuff, but in my view it’s probably the best, most versatile glue for this kind of modelling.

Its also a good idea to keep some cyanoacrylate and Tamiya cement (both thick and thin varieties) nearby for use on fine details and plastic to plastic joints respectively.

I also have some E6000 in the stash but haven’t quite worked out what its advantages are over aquadhere. @hendie swears by the stuff - but then I find he swears a lot in any case. 🤪

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7 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Hello SA80,

 

for general sticking together of wood I tend to use exterior grade Aquadhere PVA which Mr Google says is a mix of PVA and Aliphatic adhesive (whatever that means).

if I want a really strong absolutely permanent bond I will sometimes use Selleys Liquid Nails but that’s rare. If gluing wood to metal or plastic I use two-part araldite (epoxy I think). I suspect that it’s two part nature - the user has to mix two agents together to activate the glue - puts some people off this stuff, but in my view it’s probably the best, most versatile glue for this kind of modelling.

Its also a good idea to keep some cyanoacrylate and Tamiya cement (both thick and thin varieties) nearby for use on fine details and plastic to plastic joints respectively.

I also have some E6000 in the stash but haven’t quite worked out what its advantages are over aquadhere. @hendie swears by the stuff - but then I find he swears a lot in any case. 🤪

i use a specific woodwork adhesive called Titebond 1.  bloomin' good stuff 

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2 hours ago, SA80A2AR said:

i use a specific woodwork adhesive called Titebond 1.  bloomin' good stuff 

Noted!

 

Thanks, I shall keep an eye open for it.
 

I always think it’s a bit funny when folks here get passionate about their ‘favourite glue’ or ‘preferred paint thinner’. Outsiders might make the silly mistake of thinking we’re a bunch of complete nerds 🤓 or perhaps inveterate solvent abusers. 🥴

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Noted!

 

Thanks, I shall keep an eye open for it.
 

I always think it’s a bit funny when folks here get passionate about their ‘favourite glue’ or ‘preferred paint thinner’. Outsiders might make the silly mistake of thinking we’re a bunch of complete nerds 🤓 or perhaps inveterate solvent abusers. 🥴

 

 

 

 

"Solvite abusers" solvite-plane-62a36150ee939bf0a9a6e904a0

 

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