hendie Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) On 5/18/2018 at 8:39 AM, Bandsaw Steve said: the fact that the two halves of the fuselage have been accidentally glued lightly together Meticulous planning and forethought as always! On 5/18/2018 at 8:39 AM, Bandsaw Steve said: In order to preserve some structural integrity the cockpit is going to be a bit shallower than is strictly accurate - if I cut it full depth I'm sure the entire model would just snap in half. Now that you have split the fuselage in half wouldn't it be possible to route a small channel along the inboard side on both halves between the cockpit and wing cutout, then insert a stiff something or other in there for added strength (sorta like the truss rod in a guitar neck) - thereby allowing you to deepen the cockpit area? Invisible when closed up. On 5/18/2018 at 8:39 AM, Bandsaw Steve said: - if I cut it full depth I'm sure the entire model would just snap in half. Hhhhmnnn... see above^^. Nothing like a challenge is there? Honestly now,.. no need to thank me - it's all part of the service On 5/18/2018 at 8:39 AM, Bandsaw Steve said: I don't know why it's called an 'illegitimate child' file, but it is. When using this file type isn't that usually the exclamation given forth when you discover you've taken off too much material 'cos it's so coarse? My personal favorite is the three square. On 5/18/2018 at 8:39 AM, Bandsaw Steve said: Sorry about the blurry photo. We appreciate your effort, we really do, but there's absolutely no need to swear.... this is a family forum after all. Edited May 19, 2018 by hendie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted May 19, 2018 Author Share Posted May 19, 2018 Hello Hendie, I too have been thinking along the lines of a bit of added reinforcement - possibly using carbon fibre, but now that I know it’s called a ‘truss rod’ I’m scared of what the moderators will think. As you rightly point out, this is a family- friendly site and I’m not sure anyone wants to hear about our trusses I didn’t realise ‘blurry’ was a swear word. 😱 I’ll have to be very blurry careful in future. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 You know the aesthetics of watching you work and shape the wood like this is an excellent reminder that there is so much more to modelling than plastics. That's not to deride them, but simply to say that the particular material that your using here is so much in sympathy with the subject. Really enjoying and learning from your work. Tony 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Wow this is coming on . Great work Steve. This is very educational and I do love the bench sander. Got to get one of those. Keep up the good work All the best Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanroon Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 On May 13, 2018 at 1:02 AM, Bandsaw Steve said: I agree - there’s no doubt that I am a good kind of crazy.🤔 It’s the damned voices in my head that are the bad kind! 🤪 Aggravated no doubt by dubious company and timetables. 😎 It was enjoyable to fondle your timber and inspect the plans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 Mods! Mods! This weirdo wants to fondle my timber! 😱😨 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 What we see here is Steve in his element; drills, saws and 'blastard' files. Nice progress but like our alien friend, I want to see how you do the cockpit sides. Stuart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 Hmmmm... yes.... hmmmm, the cockpit sides. I too am wondering how I will do them. I can think of several ways ranging from ‘simple but inaccurate’ to ‘difficult but (a bit more) accurate’ 🤔 Hopefully the forces of dilligence and ability will overcome those of laziness and ineptitude. We shall see... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 12 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: Hopefully the forces of dilligence and ability will overcome those of laziness and ineptitude. Use the 'force' Steve... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 ‘The Force’ huh... Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good bandsaw at your side kid! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 Wings and a big win! OK - there's no putting it off any longer - let's have a crack at getting the wings into the right cross-section shape. Heaps of photos this time. Here's a nice cross-section view of the aerofoil. Let's stick it onto a bit of old litho-plate aluminum and cut out the shape so that I will have a permanent template to work to. Cut the template with a pair of scissors and check it against the, currently non-existent, curvature of the top of the aerofoil. Mark a red line running along the top of the thickest part of the wing and another one on the lower half of the leading edge. Whatever happens do not remove those lines through excessive sanding. If they stay intact then the point of maximum thickness of the wing is intact and the plan view shape of the leading edge is still O.K. Attack the top of the leading edge with the belt sander. Start with the quick and aggressive tools and progress to slower finer tools as you get closer to the finished product. Oh - nice! I nearly forgot that I had this one. The hand-sander is good for this kind of work. Work on both wings at the same time - whatever you do to one, do to the other one also. Otherwise the wings won't match each other and the model will look wrong. Check against the template - there's miles to go... Turn to the trailing part of the aerofoil - the bit behind the red line. I used the disc sander at this point and it was good but I came very, very close to removing too much at one point and in one area cut the trailing edge precariously fine. That sounds like a good thing, but a knife sharp edge on wood might not survive all of the work and handling still to come. It might erode away - we shall see. Am still managing to keep the two pieces reasonably similar to each other. A bit more work to do - but the profile is getting closer and I'm managing to preserve that red line. Hand sanding now - trying to achieve a fine trailing edge without eroding away the plan view shape. have to work slowly at this point. Here's another tool that's useful - a razor blade scraped backwards over the surface removes a few atoms of wood at a time - very slow progress but good control. Leaving something like this. The final trailing edge is a bit finer than shown in this photo, but as I said before, it must not be made super-sharp because there's a 'balancing act' going on between getting a nice sharp edge, preserving the plan view shape and not leaving a wafer-thin slither of wood that will just break at the slightest provocation. And now for the big win. During the Mig-15 build - @Churchill recommended I try some repositionable spray mount adhesive as he thought it would be much better than the PVA I was using. This year I finally bought some and have been really happy with it - thanks for the suggestion Churchill! Now comes the time to see if I can remove the stuff! After trying one or two concoctions - meths for example, I tried some white spirts... Oh my God! Look at this! The paper - so securely, beautifully and smoothly stuck on for the last couple of weeks just lifted off without so much as a squeak of protest. This is brilliant! This is a major win for me because I now have a 'go to' adhesive for sticking paper plans to wood and a 'go to' method for cleaning it off! This is fantastic! Thank you Mr Churchill! 👍 Look - I've cleaned all the scrubby bits of paper off the back of the fuselage as well! the model looks clean and attractive after that treatment - which goes quite a long way to maintaining enthusiasm for the project. So there you have it - two wings of the, roughly correct, cross-section and a new and highly satisfactory means of sticking paper on and getting it off again without leaving a mess. How happy can you get all at once? 😊 Bandsaw Steve. 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Making a profile gauge is a great idea, consider it stolen. Your build log is very inspirational. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Excellent work with those wings, you have used the 'force' well Padawan. I would've liked to have seen a photo of the final wing contour against your template😎. Stuart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azgaron Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Very nice work with the wings! Håkan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 You're welcome Steve, I'll have to give it a go myself some time. Looking good there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWS Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Nice work on the wings, Steve. I'm really impressed with the strength of the Jarrah wood. I've been reading up on Jarrah & have learned a lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Superb, just superb work on profiling those wings Steve. I use the same razor blade trick all the time for and planing and shaping surfaces - the information you get back through your fingertips is just about right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Courageous said: Excellent work with those wings, you have used the 'force' well Padawan. I would've liked to have seen a photo of the final wing contour against your template😎. Stuart Like I say - the wing cross-section is only ‘roughly correct’. I’ll post a photo tonight showing the profile against the template so you can see just how rough. 🙁 In my defence, there’s not a lot of leeway with these particular wings. Compared to making them long enough, thin enough, rigid enough, symmetrical enough and uniform enough, the exact accuracy of the aerofoil section is not keeping me awake at night. 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Nice work! It's great to see a scratch build like this! On 5/11/2018 at 6:10 AM, Bandsaw Steve said: ... Trim that great big block off the back of the fuselage. At this point - ideally the two halves of the fuselage should just drop apart because I tried not to get any glue on the actual mating surfaces. In reality it seems a bit got in there somehow so the two halves are still lightly attached. I don't think that it's a problem because I think they can still be worked apart without too much fuss when I eventually need them separated. Regarding temporary gluing. Ship modelers use Ambroid or Duco (nitrocellulose-based glues) for temporary glue-ups because acetone will dissolve the glue yet won't discolor or swell the wood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 great skills on display yet again. Glad to see it all came out as planned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 Never ignore a pooh-pooh... 😮 I'm sure that @general melchett would agree, that one should never ignore a pooh-pooh! 🤔 Now that you have split the fuselage in half wouldn't it be possible to route a small channel along the inboard side on both halves between the cockpit and wing cutout, then insert a stiff something or other in there for added strength (sorta like the truss rod in a guitar neck) - thereby allowing you to deepen the cockpit area? Invisible when closed up. Now I'm not sure - but I think that this chap might be pooh-poohing me - saying I lack the courage to cut the cockpit to full depth! I'd better not ignore this least the pooh-pooh should spread... 🧐 Let's revisit the depth of that cockpit cutout! Here's where I started, note the thickness of wood left between the top of the wing root and the cockpit floor. Nearly 10mm - strong enough, for sure, but the cockpit has been intentionally left too shallow. After a bit more bandsaw work and some sanding as shown - we are left with... less than 4mm of wood between the top of wing root and the floor of the cockpit. It turns out that even 4mm of jarrah is sufficient to hold just fine. And the cockpit is now going to be full-depth! Ha - one pooh-pooh destroyed! 😀 Now to the next one... I would've liked to have seen a photo of the final wing contour against your template. Hmmmmmm… even more subtle this one. I suspect that this chap is saying that I have intentionally not shown the finished product against the template because the two don't match very well... Hence a pooh-pooh! 😨 Well - actually he would be dead right. I was hoping no-one would notice... Here's the current state of play with the aerofoil versus the template. There's still about a 1.5mm gap between the top of the wing and the template cut-out - so this is not great. There are various ways to fix this including, horror of horrors, adding a thin skin of balsa to the top of the wing and sanding that down to 'fill' the gap. Another option is to ignore the issue and live with thigs as they stand, which is, in effect, ignoring the pooh-pooh. In any case - I'm not going to fine tune this too much until I've sorted out the dihedral, which will probably be what the next post will cover. I suspect that getting the dihedral right is going to be very 'challenging' and think that there's going to be loads of opportunities for pooh-poohing! I for one am looking forward to it! Never ignore a pooh-pooh! - just encourage more of them... Steve 7 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said: It turns out that even 4mm of jarrah is sufficient to hold just fine. And the cockpit is now going to be full-depth! See! I'll bet you feel much better for that now. As I mentioned before... no need to thanks me, it's all part of the service 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Bandwidth, Quote I'm sure that @general melchett would agree, that one should never ignore a pooh-pooh! You know my feelings regarding pooh-pooh! wonderful progress and well done for not ignoring the current rash of alleged pooh-poohs, well, except for the last one which of course you do at your own peril, (just claim the template's wrong). Quote and think that there's going to be loads of opportunities for pooh-poohing! Let the dihedral pooh-poohing begin...(and end), without blood being drawn or the need for hospitalization. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 1 hour ago, general melchett said: Let the dihedral pooh-poohing begin...(and end), without blood being drawn or the need for hospitalization. spoilsport! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Loving the work Steve, the courageous deepening of the cockpit and the fine work on the wings, the work of a master builder. Looking forward to see how the cockpit unfolds....not literally mind ! With regard to the profile gauge, make one that fits the wing, no one will notice 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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