Avro 504K, 1/32, Scratchbuild

[Vanroon]

Nice work there Bandy. 

A paper keel glued on the centerline is my customary method for left/right halves. The paper will split easily to separate halves and will wash away when permanent adhesion is required. 

[MarkSH]

I've just caught up with this project and am hooked its great to see someone explaining the process of scratch-building from concept to production and all the little tips and tricks along the way.

Great work looking forward to more.

[Bandsaw Steve]

3 hours ago, Vanroon said:

Nice work there Bandy. 

A paper keel glued on the centerline is my customary method for left/right halves. The paper will split easily to separate halves and will wash away when permanent adhesion is required. 

Hmmmm....Good idea! Hadn’t thought of that!

[Bandsaw Steve]

17 hours ago, Ted said:

 So excited to follow and learn!

 

 

Is that little dog called ‘Dogmatix’ by any chance?

[JohnWS]

On 09/05/2018 at 01:38, Vanroon said:

... A paper keel glued on the centerline is my customary method for left/right halves. The paper will split easily to separate halves and will wash away when permanent adhesion is required. 

 

On 09/05/2018 at 05:35, Bandsaw Steve said:

Hmmmm....Good idea! Hadn’t thought of that!

That is a great tip!  

 

I'm looking forward to following your build Steve.

[Bandsaw Steve]

Bandsaw Steve gets all Bandsawey - So look out!

 

Of all the scale modellers who are currently building a 1/32 scale Avro 504K out of Jarrah - I'm probably one of the tougher ones...  probably...  It's this reputation for outright badness that got me my name - that and the fact that I sometimes use a bandsaw.

 

I'm going to go all bandsaw crazy now and cut out the fuselage.

 

Here's where we start. Unsurprisingly, it's exactly where we left off last time, and yes @Learstang it does look like a Blackburn Blackburd! And yes! - I even know what one of those was!

 

Anyway, in this case I've decided I want a nice accurate cut, so after checking that working platform on the saw is set at exactly 90 degrees to the blade I have cut a series of little spalling notches in the piece down to where I want the first main cut to reach.

Now just run along the base of the spalling notches with the bandsaw and watch them drop off one by one - just like your fingers will if you aren't very careful with even this little hobby bandsaw! That's why I left the large surplus blocks of wood on the end of the Jarrah - they help me control the work without getting my stupid fingers any nearer to the blade than they need to be.

 

The spalling notches help because if the cut starts to wander, you can just stop and reposition at any point.

 

First cut complete. Pretty close to the paper cut-out considering it's done entirely with a saw. I'm pretty happy with this.

 

Check that everything is nice and square. If you ever do any of this kind of work it's a good idea to get a little set square like this tiny one, they are great. I use mine heaps.

 

Repeat the process on the other side.

 

Leaving this.  Now you can see just how much surplus wood I have left at either end - this is where the wood glue is and as mentioned before these 'handles' help me keep my fingers clear of nasty bits.

 

Now to this little beauty - a bench disc-sander. This is only a bit of a 'cheapy' brand - it's nothing special, but after buying it in the middle of 2017 I would not be without it now!

 

It also has this handy little belt sander built in - and it gets a good work out too.   (Photo courtesy of 'Beltsander Steve!')

 

So now with the side profile established - roll the job through 90 degrees and start on the top.  Stick on the next bit of paper - making sure all the bits are lined up properly.  Note how the centreline on the plans has been positioned to line up exactly with the centreline from the join in the wood. Easy Peasy!

 

Starting to feel a bit cocky with all of this now so am cutting no spalling notches this time. The two 'notches' in the foreground are the remnants of the notches left from the previous steps.

 

First cut complete - you can see up near the front cockpit where the cut started to go awry and where I chose to stop, go back and re-cut.

 

Both sides cut now...

 

and both sides removed - while leaving the big blocky handle at the rear, completely intact. This is actually an instructive picture. note how I have no qualms at all about letting the very narrow slither of wood at the tail take the whole weight of the fuselage. Jarrah is extremely hard, rigid and strong. The main reason I've chosen it for this project is that in future there will be one or two points in the fuselage, especially under the cockpit floor, that are going to be both very narrow and structurally critical. I'm very confident that Jarrah will be up to the job and am willing to trade some 'workability' for that strength.

 

Having cut the enormous block off the nose, I'm squaring up the front of the fuselage with the disk sander.  Again, keep checking that everything is nice and square.

 

Hmmmm.... Jarrah eh... fairly hard.  The bench sander has left scorch marks in the wood.  Even sanding this stuff can make smoke!

 

Trim that great big block off the back of the fuselage. At this point - ideally the two halves of the fuselage should just drop apart because I tried not to get any glue on the actual mating surfaces. In reality it seems a bit got in there somehow so the two halves are still lightly attached. I don't think that it's a problem because I think they can still be worked apart without too much fuss when I eventually need them separated.

 

Ta Dah! - one fuselage - kinda about the right shape, length and what-have-you. Plenty more work to go on this of course, but so far so good.

In this final photo there's been a bit of work done on the wings and tailplane - but I think that the fuselage is enough for one post so I'll jibber on about the wings and things next time round.

 

So for now, with my thirst for bandsaw action slaked - at least temporarily - it's TTFN.

 

Bandsaw Steve

 

 

[Azgaron]

Nice work!

 

Håkan

 

[Learstang]

As Lou Moran (Richard Attenborough) said to Frank Townes (Jimmy Stewart) in The Flight of the Phoenix*, as the Phoenix took shape, 'You know Frank, it's really starting to look like something.'.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

 

*Best aeroplane movie ever? Possibly.

[Ted]

Love it! and very eager to see your secrets unfold, like how you'll handle the cockpit area.

[Ray S]

6 minutes ago, Ted said:

Love it! and very eager to see your secrets unfold, like how you'll handle the cockpit area.

Me too!

 

Good work so far, Mr Bandsaw!

 

Ray

[Courageous]

Heavy tools at work. Avro coming along nicely.

 

Stuart

[Tomoshenko]

Nice gentle touch with the heavy tools. As noted above it's taking shape.

 

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:30 PM, Learstang said:

As Lou Moran (Richard Attenborough) said to Frank Townes (Jimmy Stewart) in The Flight of the Phoenix*, as the Phoenix took shape, 'You know Frank, it's really starting to look like something.'.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

 

*Best aeroplane movie ever? Possibly.

It is in my opinion. Certainly my favourite aeroplane film. An appropriate point too, because in the film Heinrich Dorfmann (Hardy Krüger) was a model (flying models) aircraft designer, working from model plans and applying the principles to a full scale flying machine; in this instance, a sort of volte-face, Mr Bandsaw is working from full scale aircraft plans and applying them to a model - well I should say scale replica. I love that sort of thing.

[Learstang]

This all brings to mind another quote from the film (quoted from memory), says Frank Townes to Lou Moran, 'He's crazy, Lou. He builds toy aeroplanes.'. But I think Mr. Bandsaw and all his brethren (and sisteren) on this site are a good kind of crazy.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[Bandsaw Steve]

I agree - there’s no doubt that I am a good kind of crazy.🤔

It’s the damned voices in my head that are the bad kind! 🤪

[Learstang]

I know what you mean about the voices in the head. I have ones that are always telling me I need to buy this kit or that kit. However, I find that if I just give in to them and buy the kit, they quieten down.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[Head in the clouds.]

Lovely craftsmanship thus far Steve and very, very interesting, a lot of of old time craftsmanship with some traditional building material. Look forward to the next instalment.

[Bandsaw Steve]

Wings and Things

 

The wings on an Avro 504 are:

• 'Double decked' - which is something I've never dealt with before in a scratchbuilt model and threatens to be a total nightmare.
• Very long and with a high aspect ratio, and hence might be prone to sagging.
• Thin - very thin. I'm not sure why Roy Chadwick made the damned aerofoil so skinny but it looks like he had supersonic speed in mind when he designed it.
• Concave on the underside - making the ridiculous thin-ness of the aerofoil even thinner!
• Set with a three degree dihedral - just to make life more interesting.

So - overall I think that the wings are likely to be the most challenging part of this build and the part of the project most likely to defeat me. 🤕  

However, you wouldn't know it from this post.  In this post the wings and things are dead easy.

 

Use the bandsaw to cut the relevant bits out.

 

Not much to say really - just saw the bits out.

 

Saw out the tailplanes.

 

 

Use the disc sander to trim the wood back as accurately as possible to the edge of the paper template.

 

Use the belt sander to round off any of the corners.  Do this work slowly so that you don't remove too much and have to start again with a new piece.

 

And there you have it - nothing to it really...

 

From here on though - the wings are going to get difficult.  You might be seeing a lot of them over the next month or so because I want to try to get them sorted out while I'm still brimming full of enthusiasm for the project. The last thing that I want to do is leave the difficult bits to last and then have to tackle them in a state of mental exhaustion. Or worse, find that I can't solve the issues and have to abandon the project after completing - say - 80% of it. 

 

If the wings are beyond my ability - I want to know sooner rather than later so I can convert this model to a gyrocopter.  😨  God Forbid! 

 

Bandsaw Steve

 

[Courageous]

All looking dandy so far Steve.

7 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

The last thing that I want to do is leave the difficult bits to last and then have to tackle them in a state of mental exhaustion. Or worse, find that I can't solve the issues and have to abandon the project after completing - say - 80% of it. 

One could ask Stevo, why didn't you tackle the wings earlier so save building 80%...

 

Stuart

[Bandsaw Steve]

That’s what I’m doing!

 

Tricky wings and things early on. If I’m gonna fail I want to fail early in the project so there’s more time for recovery (or just less wastage when it all goes in the bin).

[k5054nz]

21 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

If the wings are beyond my ability - I want to know sooner rather than later so I can convert this model to a gyrocopter.  😨  God Forbid! 

Juan de la Cierva's first few Autogiro designs were essentially wingless 504s with stub wings and rotors....😎

 

I'm still not sold on the solid fuselage, but the way you're working shows me you know enough pull it off. Bravo!

[Bandsaw Steve]

Not sold on a solid fuselage?!?!

What other kinds are there? 😧

 

 

[Bandsaw Steve]

Starting with the cockpit

 

One advantage with scratchbuilding is that you don't invariably have to start with the b****y cockpit. Still - you have to get there eventually - so we had better get on with it.

 

Before we do though there's one more job to do.  Taking advantage of the fact that the two halves of the fuselage have been accidentally glued lightly together I'm going to drill some holes through the two halves of the fuselage. Well almost  through - as you can see from this image I'm going to stop a few mm short of actually passing out the other side.

 

 

Having drilled the holes I can now temporarily fit some dowels . Later on these dowels will be permanently affixed to one half of the fuselage and will serve to ensure that the two halves are correctly aligned whenever they go back together.

 

Now I need to work out where this cockpit will go.  Get the relevant bit of paper and stick it onto the correct spot.

 

Mark up the bits that need to be cut out. Note in this case it's both the cockpit void that needs to be cut out and the wing roots.  In order to preserve some structural integrity the cockpit is going to be a bit shallower than is strictly accurate - if I cut it full depth I'm sure the entire model would just snap in half.

 

Cut some spalling cuts - both for the cockpit and the wing root.

 

And you know the rest... Get stuck in with a bandsaw!

 

Clean up the cuts with a 'b*****d file. I don't know why it's called an 'illegitimate child' file, but it is.  I suspect it's got something to do with the fact it can be used for either metal-work or wood-work and is hence 'disowned' by puritans of either ilk.

 

That leaves this - the thin bit between the floor of the cockpit and the top of the wing root is the reason I've chosen Jarrah.  If this thin bit snaps - it's all over!

I have no doubt that Jarrah will hold.  Balsa? No way...it would just bend and split and.... No... No way!

 

Use a rat's tail file to clean up the wing root cut.  At least it's fairly clear why this tool is given the name it's got. Sorry about the blurry photo.

 

Now comes the big moment. Let's split the two halves of the fuselage!  One tap and it's done - there were only a tiny couple of drops of PVA holding this together.

Can't use a mallet and chisel with a 'Wingnut Wings' kit now can you!

 

Here are the two fuselage halves. Complete with rebates cut for the cockpit and the lower wings.  It still sounds unnatural saying 'lower' wings. I think I'm a monoplane dude at heart!

 

And this is what it looks like all dummied up.  Obviously I still need to hold the upper wings in place with my hands because all of that tackle that holds them up there is a long way from being built yet.

 

Next time - I think I'll have to do something with those wings - if I can get the courage up.

 

Bandsaw...

Bandsaw Steve!

 

[Ted]

26 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

 

Can't use a mallet and chisel with a 'Wingnut Wings' kit now can you!

 

 

Good slogan for endorsing scratchbuilding.

[Azgaron]

Nice work Steve!! Interesting to see a plane take shape like this!

 

Actually you can use a mallet and chisel on a Wingnut kit, but it might be an expensive experience!

 

Håkan

 

[Martian]

When I saw solid fuselage mentioned, I somehow got the idea that cockpits were not going to be involved. Now I can see they are but don't quite follow how the sides will be built. Still, I have had a very long day and after all I'm only a simple alien who seems to have run out of beer. The good news is that I have just heard that the Beer Fairy is wending her way to my rescue as we speak! 

 

Dehydrated and Muddled of Mars 👽