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Das Abteilung

UK Buys Back Into Boxer MRAV to meet MIV requirement

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It seems to have been announced today that the UK will rejoin the Boxer MRAV programme to satisfy the Medium Infantry Vehicle 8x8 APC requirement.  This was always going to be an off the shelf purchase, not a development project.  It is the successor programme to the cancelled FRES Utillity Vehicle project.  There will be several variants, but none armed with anything more than an RWS with HMG or GMG.  I believe there will be an 81mm mortar carrier.

 

This will be a blow for GD who were on the cusp of having Piranha IV Evo (i.e Piranha 5) bought to meet the FRES UV requirement about 10 years ago.  With P5 now being a mature product with customers they might have been hoping to pick up where they left off.

 

Those of us with long memories will recall that we left the MRAV programme because the vehicle had grown too big and heavy to be C130 airportable.  Then under FRES we realised that any 8x8 vehicle able to be sufficiently survivable couldn't possibly be made small or light enough to go in a C130, but by that time we had committed to both C17 and A400M which gave more space and weight.

 

https://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2018_global_defense_security_army_news_industry/united_kingdom_british_army_is_rejoining_the_boxer_8x8_armored_program.html

 

On the plus side for us modellers, a couple of kits of Boxer are already available in 1/35 so a UK variant(s) shouldn't be too much to wish for.

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Again? I was under the impression that particular requirement had been withdrawn and it's role was to be done with Foxhounds and Mastiff/Wolfhound as there were plenty after Afghanistan draw down

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Rheinmetall were promoting the British origins of the Boxer last year, with a Union flag painted vehicle

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5 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

Rheinmetall were promoting the British origins of the Boxer last year, with a Union flag painted vehicle

MJ-8458-main-image.jpg

 

Anyone else play Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0 back in the day? Just me? Well, this looks like something straight out of one of the sourcebooks.

 

 

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Why do I have the urge to build one like that1

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The UOR heavy Protected Mobility vehicles bought into Core after Herrick, such as Mastiff, only had a projected life into the mid 2020's and there were never enough to go round.  MIV will replace those - which we might not have needed to buy if we'd stuck with MRAV in the first place or if FRES UV had delivered something.  Interestingly, Force Protection did attempt to convince DSTL that Cougar (i.e. Mastiff) could meet FRES UV: it was way off. 


I believe that MIV will also replace some, if not all, of the remaining 432s.  The plan to replace 432s in armoured units with conversions of the 250 or so Warriors not being upgraded under LEP fell by the wayside long ago.  Armoured Battlegroup Support Vehicle, it was called.

 

Foxhound has a long term future in the Light Protected Patrol role for which it was bought.  It was a Core project, not a UOR.  MRV-P will replace the ex-UOR Husky and potentially some Panther.

 

CRV(T) will be fully replaced by Ajax and siblings.  Assuming the idiots in Whitehall don't axe the Marines' amphibious capability for the sake of a few ££, as was in the media a while back, they should be getting a replacement for the BV206D under the ATV-P project.

 

Jackal and Coyote will stay in the light recce role, although the days of the SF versions may now be numbered.  The future of SF's only overt military armoured vehicle remains clouded.

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On 02/04/2018 at 4:03 AM, Procopius said:

Anyone else play Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0 back in the day? Just me? Well, this looks like something straight out of one of the sourcebooks.

I still have both that and the first edition (before the 2020 monicker was added).....You are right, it does.  :coolio:

 

PS - The 'Friday Night Fire-Fight' rules from those games are still some of the best for very small scale skirmishes.....Like Phoenix Command, but without all the faffing around with charts & tables.  ;)

 

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Got there in the end, I guess 😂

 

Some stats from the recent Australian Boxer announcement:

211 “drive modules” (hulls). 

223 mission modules (133 with Lance turret). 

First delivery: 2020. 

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Hmmm.  Boxer making inroads into Piranha territory.  Who knew?  GD will be smarting over losing an existing customer with Oz.

 

Piranha is still the Western world's most-produced 8x8, although it perhaps isn't entirely fair for GD to consider PIII and PV in the same breath as PI and PII.  PIV was only built as prototypes.  They are completely different vehicles: a generational jump from II to III and from III to V.

 

In a way Boxer was a bit ahead of its time.  No-one other than the remaining partners wanted it because it was too big and heavy: the reasons UK left the project.  But the lighter-weight platforms that were then preferred have proved less than adequately survivable and incapable of taking upgraded survivability.  Now the heavyweights like Boxer and PV are coming into their own. 

 

Interestingly, Australia was at one time interested in the possibility of joining FRES UV as they foresaw that ASLAV's survivability would become a problem.  And they and UK have both ended up choosing the same vehicle by separate means against separate requirements.  It remains to be seen if NZ will follow the Oz lead, as they did with PII.  Their PIIs are essentially US LAV spec rather than ASLAV.

 

So, potentially 2 more kits for HobbyBoss and/or Revell to produce.  The Lance turret will look good.  I'm guessing that the HobbyBoss offering is better than Revell's??

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Slight correction, the NZLAV is a Piranha 3 hull, very similar to later Canadian vehicles. I remember hosting the Kiwi officer at a mess function who was sent to Darwin to look at ASLAV in detail. He loved the turret but hated the vehicle height - not surprising coming from a Scorpion!

 

 

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Oops.  Senior moment!  Wrong N American country.........  I should have remembered as it came up when I was researching 8x8 sales around the world to see what FRES UV might cost.  I recall that NZ paid a lot and had to wait a long time for delivery behind other customers.  There was a parliamentary enquiry about it in NZ, IIRC.

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11 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

  I recall that NZ paid a lot and had to wait a long time for delivery behind other customers.  There was a parliamentary enquiry about it in NZ, IIRC.

:huh:  Not sure where you got you info from.  The only delay was due to decision to adopt Stryker based chassis and share common ANZAC turret with Australia.  The parliamentary inquiry was actually an Audit Office report which occurs at sometime for almost all major defence projects.   

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Posted (edited)

There are pics out there showing Boxer and AMV35 alongside an M1 and ASLAV which shows just how much bigger Boxer is compared to it’s predecessor (iPad won’t let me copy a direct link)

 

http://www.contactairlandandsea.com/2017/06/21/land-400-scale-things-come/

 

Edited by Dave Fleming

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4 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

There are pics out there showing Boxer and AMV35 alongside an M1 and ASLAV which shows just how much bigger Boxer is compared to it’s predecessor (iPad won’t let me copy a direct link)

 

http://www.contactairlandandsea.com/2017/06/21/land-400-scale-things-come/

 

Holy Jesus! That thing's huge.

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It’s not little. 

 

Here’s a pic I took from the commander’s hole of the Boxer CRV/Direct Fire High Survivability Lift (DFHSL), looking over the top of an ALSAV to the (loosing) AMV35:

 

sGS7OOl.jpg

 

It’s a big truck. 

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On ‎6‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 5:37 PM, Dave Fleming said:

There are pics out there showing Boxer and AMV35 alongside an M1 and ASLAV which shows just how much bigger Boxer is compared to it’s predecessor (iPad won’t let me copy a direct link)

 

http://www.contactairlandandsea.com/2017/06/21/land-400-scale-things-come/

 

That is going to be fun when they have driving exercises in the local streets in whatever town they are eventually billeted too. Keeping clear of a Bushmaster or ASLAV  was fun, but the size of this vehicle is going to make it hog the road.

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6 hours ago, Mick4350 said:

That is going to be fun when they have driving exercises in the local streets in whatever town they are eventually billeted to. Keeping clear of a Bushmaster or ASLAV  was fun, but the size of this vehicle is going to make it hog the road.

 

Not to mention dodging them on the goat track that is the Bruce Highway (especially up north). There will no doubt be numbers of them at both Townsville and Rockhampton barracks, with the resultant convoying to Shoalwater Bay for drinking games exercises. I don't even want to consider what all that will do to the condition of the north's roads.

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On ‎7‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:34 AM, GMK said:

It’s not little. 

 

Here’s a pic I took from the commander’s hole of the Boxer CRV/Direct Fire High Survivability Lift (DFHSL), looking over the top of an ALSAV to the (loosing) AMV35:

 

sGS7OOl.jpg

 

It’s a big truck. 

Looks superior in the fording department.

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On ‎02‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 04:03, Procopius said:

MJ-8458-main-image.jpg

 

Anyone else play Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0 back in the day? Just me? Well, this looks like something straight out of one of the sourcebooks.

 

 

Has anyone seen the otherside of this, I have my Revell kit and I am going to paint it like this :)

 

Julien

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On ‎02‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 4:03 AM, Procopius said:

MJ-8458-main-image.jpg

 

Anyone else play Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0 back in the day? Just me? Well, this looks like something straight out of one of the sourcebooks.

 

 

I wonder if the original inspiration came from:

 

20080312090909-33593-mini-powers.jpg

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Julien said:

Has anyone seen the otherside of this, I have my Revell kit and I am going to paint it like this :)

 

Julien

 

There are a few pics out there.  Google Boxer AFV British

 

And this

 

 

 

Edited by Dave Fleming

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Thx for that Dave.

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On 02/04/2018 at 18:31, Julien said:

Why do I have the urge to build one like that1

Masochist? :shrug: Can I remind you what a bad idea this was when you're cursing the masking job and how the spray creeps under all the sharp edges where the masking hasn't adhered properly? :wicked:

 

I always liked the Boxer, so I'm quite happy about it (less so about the £300m they squandered "looking" after dropping out of the programme, but that's another story for somewhere else), and it might mean we get a newer tooling than the oldish Revell (not bad) one in due course :)

 

20 hours ago, Richard E said:

I wonder if the original inspiration came from:

I think it was this :innocent:

 

1200px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.pn

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2 hours ago, Mike said:

I always liked the Boxer, so I'm quite happy about it (less so about the £300m they squandered "looking" after dropping out of the programme, but that's another story for somewhere else), and it might mean we get a newer tooling than the oldish Revell (not bad) one in due course :)

What about the 2011 vintage HobbyBoss offering?  One would tend to rate HB above Revell in the quality and detail stakes.

 

I don't know about £300M.  I contracted most of the money spent on FRES UV Concept Phase and it was less than 1/3 of that.  There was no Demonstration Phase as UV was dropped.  There was of course a settlement fee to buy our way out of the original MRAV programme.  That took years to settle.  Not much else happened until MIV was resurrected as far as I know, apart from perhaps some spend with Dstl.  You may know better.  I wanted to get back onto that programme once it formed up as I felt I had unfinished business with it after the very-senior-mangement-induced UV fiasco, but no luck.  I got contracts for camp systems and then construction plant + MHE and a dabble in HET and SF light mobility to play with.

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12 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

What about the 2011 vintage HobbyBoss offering?  One would tend to rate HB above Revell in the quality and detail stakes.

 

I was talking UK specific versions once it's in service (so we don't have to convert), but I didn't make that clear :)

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