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Julien

US Navy to buy an RAF C-130J

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Looks like the USN is buying an RAF C-130J to Support the Blue Angels as Fat Albert is still grounded.

 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19570/blue-angels-getting-c-130j-from-royal-air-force-to-replace-kc-130t-fat-albert-transport

 

Julien

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Sorry to appear cynical but is this another rock-bottom-priced sale by the Misery of Disarmament (think of the 2010/11 Harrier giveaway) or will it really give the hard-pressed British taxpayer enough value for money to reinstate part of one of the cancelled A400Ms, helping to keep that taxpayer-funded programme running for a few minutes longer?

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Yes it would seem a great deal of cynicism is needed here, when you read ;

 

Quote

Procurement of a comparable replacement C-130J from any source other than the UK MOD would create an unacceptable increase in program cost and delay in fielding this critical capability.

It certainly seems a knock down price has been offered by Del Boy who now seems to be running MOD Disposal. 

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They werent being used anyway since SDSR.Only the 14 stretch ones are being used....till 2035 so im told.

Probably not what you want to hear but new aircraft A400 M cost money to run...manpower mods fuel blah blah...its not like it was and I cant see that changing anytime soon.

From the RAF perspective i can see the older chinooks going...60 cabs in service no way....and sentinel is on borrowed time....hope im wrong.

As for the Army and the senior service who knows not much left ....saw rave reviews about the new gash barge with a couple of pop guns....dont know why we bother.:rain:

 

 

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Have heard that the A400 has a cracking problem with its airframe,but that might just be rumour.

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On 27/03/2018 at 4:43 AM, fatalbert said:

Have heard that the A400 has a cracking problem with its airframe,but that might just be rumour.

Probably put about by B*e*n* so they can get us to fund re-opening of the C-17 line in a few years time when they have to stop building the KC-46 Frankentanker.  (Just checked: cynicism still showing😉). 

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When the new Airbus Atlas/Grizzly thing cannot drop British paratroopers then we need every Hercules that we have! We should be buying more,......not selling them off cheap!

 

I think that the newly appointed PC Friendly, `yes man' Chief of the General Staff is bad news too,........ he ruined the Army,..... made it a laughing stock with his rainbow  flags,....PC rubbish including the laughable recruiting adverts and oversaw massive reductions in troop levels from over 100,000 to around 70,000,...... what he will do to the other services I just don`t know,.....but look out! When a soldier cannot put a war face on without looking like a girl,..... there is something wrong,.... he certainly is! The RM candidate was the squaddies choice and also the choice of the Defence Secretary,..... but we got the cabinet`s yes man instead.

 

Cheers

         Tony 

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The irony (?) is that the richest nation in the world is buying a cheap used aircraft to support one of their two basically unproductive display teams (yes I know all the arguments for, but they're not exactly on patrol, are they?), which ties up billions of dollars annually.

 

It's laughable.

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15 minutes ago, Rob G said:

The irony (?) is that the richest nation in the world is buying a cheap used aircraft to support one of their two basically unproductive display teams (yes I know all the arguments for, but they're not exactly on patrol, are they?), which ties up billions of dollars annually.

 

It's laughable.

Isn't it a PR/recruitment tool, not unlike the UK's own display team?  This "ZH" serials list shows four Hercules C.5s (short-body variant) withdrawn so far, with two destined for the Bahrain AF (another well-off nation, I think).  http://www.ukserials.com/results.php?serial=ZH

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8 minutes ago, Irish 251 said:

Isn't it a PR/recruitment tool

 

That's the excuse used by everyone, but I think that it's just the zoomies showing off, because they can. :) When was the last time that you saw a C-17 display team? (no-one cares about transports)

 

I seriously doubt that flying real, current combat aircraft in special liveries is an effective use of advertising dollars, especially given that the military is already pretty highly visible in every nation, and especially so in the US.

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Hmm well C17 s slightly more expensive to operate and perhaps not quite as exciting....although a400m is quite good.

Lucky old 'mercans using super fast jets whilst the UK uses the Hawk to arguably better effect....i saw the thunderbirds and was visably unmoved.

Still the answer to the demise (possibly) of the crimson crabs is of course the Blue Herons :think:

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37 minutes ago, junglierating said:

i saw the thunderbirds and was visibly unmoved.

 

Check out the cojones on Mr Junglie! (I thought very much the same when I saw them, but haven't had the stones to say so.) I actually went for a walk around the static park when they roared in.

 

The Reds are great, Freece Tricolori do a bangup job too.

 

(I was kinda kidding about the 17. It doesn't thrill me. I doubt that an A400 would either. A Herc doing a Khe Sanh approach... THAT'S good to watch.)

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6 hours ago, Rob G said:

 

Check out the cojones on Mr Junglie! (I thought very much the same when I saw them, but haven't had the stones to say so.) I actually went for a walk around the static park when they roared in.

 

The Reds are great, Freece Tricolori do a bangup job too.

 

(I was kinda kidding about the 17. It doesn't thrill me. I doubt that an A400 would either. A Herc doing a Khe Sanh approach... THAT'S good to watch.)

 

I'd agree, Rob. For excitement, creativity and flair the Frecce Tricolori have always been ahead of the game. The RAs are typically British (I suppose they should be) and maintain a pretty reserved understated display year on year. Now I know that there are those out there who have closer ties with the service and the team, and will back them, and that is fine. It is my opinion. 

 

... And back to the room ........ ;)

Edited by RidgeRunner

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The approach to aerobatic flying by US teams has always been very different from the kind of flying we're used to with teams like the Reds or the Frecce, no surprise that most of us will find Thunderbirds and Blue Angels as not particularly exciting and I share this view.

This doesn't mean that the American pilots don't know their stuff, they simply aim at a different goal with their performances and have never considered adding the kind of flair and creativity that European teams generally find as vital in a team display.

The fact that US teams have always used front line aircrafts (with the brief exception of the Thunderbirds T-38 period) is also part of their philosophy.

 

Usefulness of display teams is always detabatkle, in any case the impact of the US teams on the overall military budget is so tiny that why not ? They are eating almost nothing into the budget and are traditionally seen as a vital PR and most importantly recruiting tool for the respective services, so they make perfect sense

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On Monday, April 02, 2018 at 12:25 AM, junglierating said:

Hmm well C17 s slightly more expensive to operate and perhaps not quite as exciting....although a400m is quite good.

Lucky old 'mercans using super fast jets whilst the UK uses the Hawk to arguably better effect....i saw the thunderbirds and was visably unmoved.

Still the answer to the demise (possibly) of the crimson crabs is of course the Blue Herons :think:

Grey and white F35,s with visible national markings great! Bring back the Hunters!

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On 01/04/2018 at 23:40, Rob G said:

 

That's the excuse used by everyone, but I think that it's just the zoomies showing off, because they can. :) When was the last time that you saw a C-17 display team? (no-one cares about transports)

 

There was a C-130 team once;

 

 

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And if you've ever seen the solo displays by the Swedes or the Jordanian C-130s. Then there was 'Boy' Soons in the Dutch F-27. Or the Alenia G-222

 

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On 26/03/2018 at 11:15 PM, junglierating said:

They were not being used anyway since SDSR.Only the 14 stretch ones are being used....till 2035 so im told.

 

Yep - C-130J is/has been withdrawn from UK service anyway (pretty certain?). So a sensible purchase for the USN from the RAF. Although if they feel the need to buy one from us, what does that say about the structural safety of the remaining USMC/USN fleet following that awful mid-air break up that led to the grounding of their whole fleet a few months ago?(which triggered this purchase)

 

On 01/04/2018 at 9:57 PM, tonyot said:

When the new Airbus Atlas/Grizzly thing cannot drop British paratroopers then we need every Hercules that we have! We should be buying more,......not selling them off cheap!

I think that the newly appointed PC Friendly, `yes man' Chief of the General Staff is bad news too,........ he ruined the Army,..... made it a laughing stock with his rainbow  flags,....PC rubbish including the laughable recruiting adverts and oversaw massive reductions in troop levels from over 100,000 to around 70,000,...... what he will do to the other services I just don`t know,.....but look out! When a soldier cannot put a war face on without looking like a girl,..... there is something wrong,.... he certainly is! The RM candidate was the squaddies choice and also the choice of the Defence Secretary,..... but we got the cabinet`s yes man instead.

 

Tony, not that your Avatar hints at any bias you might have to the retention of UK airborne forces(!) but I suspect their days are numbered. Not because of the time long divided argument of "modern tactical relevance", but more to do with the all prevailing Health & Safety cr@p that is the new state religion at the very top of the MOD. I cannot remember what the statistic is for massed airborne (peacetime) drops, but if broken legs/fatalities is measured in 1 per 500 jumps, can you really see any senior Generals "owning" that risk? 

 

And as you astutely pointed out, the Armed Forces choice for the CDS (Gordon M) did not align with the PMs choice for the job. Now that I need to introduce the appropriate transgender awareness training for the ship's cat I have under my command as a priority over other demands (such as Fire Fighting, weapon handling etc), perhaps it is time for me to quit. 

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On ‎05‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 13:41, bentwaters81tfw said:

And if you've ever seen the solo displays by the Swedes or the Jordanian C-130s. Then there was 'Boy' Soons in the Dutch F-27. Or the Alenia G-222

 

The F-27 was always fun, as was the Sweedish Herc

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RAF are still using at least one short Herc as ZH888 accompanied its longer brother ZH867 into Prestwick yesterday.

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Aren’t the RAF J’s the oldest ones around?  If I remember correctly we had the first off the line.

 

Anyway don’t they need rewinging- something to do with stress fractures because the weight of the wing tanks was no longer there as a dampener? Or am I thinking of something else?

 

Trevor

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On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:37 AM, Giorgio N said:

The approach to aerobatic flying by US teams has always been very different from the kind of flying we're used to with teams like the Reds or the Frecce, no surprise that most of us will find Thunderbirds and Blue Angels as not particularly exciting and I share this view.

This doesn't mean that the American pilots don't know their stuff, they simply aim at a different goal with their performances and have never considered adding the kind of flair and creativity that European teams generally find as vital in a team display.

The fact that US teams have always used front line aircrafts (with the brief exception of the Thunderbirds T-38 period) is also part of their philosophy.

 

Usefulness of display teams is always detabatkle, in any case the impact of the US teams on the overall military budget is so tiny that why not ? They are eating almost nothing into the budget and are traditionally seen as a vital PR and most importantly recruiting tool for the respective services, so they make perfect sense

I, too, have always been far more impressed by the European teams than the American ones. However, the love and respect for the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels in this country should not be underestimated. When  I was at the Yuma show last month, the crowd was very disappointed that the Angels were not displaying, and, equally, the crowd at Luke the following day where the Angels WERE performing were extremely enthusiastic. Both teams put on highly professional displays, and while neither is as 'dynamic' as their European counterparts, their close formation manoeuvres should not be pooh-poohed. The bit I cannot stand is the silly 30 minute synchronized square-bashing crap by the pilots and mechanics of both teams prior to take off......

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2 hours ago, Paul Bradley said:

The bit I cannot stand is the silly 30 minute synchronized square-bashing crap by the pilots and mechanics of both teams prior to take off...... 

I once saw an RAF Nimrod crew spoof that, at NAS Pensacola of all places. The USN was celebrating the "75th Anniversary of Naval Aviation" - Eugene Ely's 1911 flight. As a courtesy, they had invited the Fleet Air Arm (two Sea Harriers) and RAF Strike Command's Maritime Group, represented by the said Nimrod.

 

Not long after the Blue Angels display, the Nimrod taxied out, stopped by the reviewing stand, opened an overwing hatch, an NCO in green rompers climbed out, marched along the wing, saluted the assembled brass, turned smartly & marched back in and the Nimrod proceeded into the display. those of us who were Brits present knew exactly what was going on and we all hoped the US brass didn't.

 

Later in the display the FAA Sea Harrier stopped the show. It really did, when the display pilot forgot to put his undercarriage down on finals for a short landing, made it much shorter by landing on the gunpods and blocked the runway.

 

Kevin

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Ah that 'l be Cdr Clive Bayliss ....he would have been a young Lt then....was my SP and CO a few years later....didnt do him any harm

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