Lord Riot Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) Hi all, I have a Vampire T.11 and an FB.5, both of which types were flown by no. 2 Civilian Anti-Aircraft Co-operation Unit from RAF Langham, north Norfolk (sight of the eponymous 'dome') in the late 1950s. I'd like to make at least one Vampire to represent these, does anyone know of any specific Vampires to fly at Langham, and any idea what markings and colours they wore? Thanks! Edited March 25, 2018 by Lord Riot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 WA117, no further information. However T Mk.11 WZ512 of No 3 CAACU was standard scheme with a unit number of 50 on the nose. Source Sturtivant & Hamlin Flying Training and Support Units from Air Britain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 From Alan Lake's Flying Units of the RAF: Vampire FB.5 WA117, FB.9 WL573, T.11 WZ584. No codes given for any of 2 CAACU's aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Hi, on a similar question, would your book show the number-serial tie up for Vampire T11 WZ450, in any of its squadrons please ? Many thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 From Air Britain's RAF Serials WA100 to WZ999: WZ450 served with 202 Advanced Flying School, 233 Operational Conversion Unit and RAF College. Lake makes no mention of WZ450 under any of these units. However he lists for 202 AFS Vampire T.11 WZ558 N-30, WZ426 53-O RAF College Vampire T.11 XD382 38. No codes are given for any 233 OCU aircraft barring a solitary Hunter F.1. Ray Sturtivant, in the book cited by Graham, lists 202 AFS Vampire T.11 WZ563 N-14 233 OCU Vampite T.11 WZ430 (no code recorded) RAF College Vampire T.11 XE936 51 I don't pretend to understand the presentation of 202 AFS codes. I surmise that the letter and number were split by the roundel with the letter forward (or aft) on both sides of the aircraft so that N-30 on one side would be 30-N on the other. But I don't know and would welcome confirmation or correction. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, Seahawk said: From Air Britain's RAF Serials WA100 to WZ999: WZ450 served with 202 Advanced Flying School, 233 Operational Conversion Unit and RAF College. Lake makes no mention of WZ450 under any of these units. However he lists for 202 AFS Vampire T.11 WZ558 N-30, WZ426 53-O RAF College Vampire T.11 XD382 38. No codes are given for any 233 OCU aircraft barring a solitary Hunter F.1. Ray Sturtivant, in the book cited by Graham, lists 202 AFS Vampire T.11 WZ563 N-14 233 OCU Vampite T.11 WZ430 (no code recorded) RAF College Vampire T.11 XE936 51 I don't pretend to understand the presentation of 202 AFS codes. I surmise that the letter and number were split by the roundel with the letter forward (or aft) on both sides of the aircraft so that N-30 on one side would be 30-N on the other. But I don't know and would welcome confirmation or correction. HTH Thanks HTH, I can't offer further details to the 202 and 233 codes, however when we stripped the remains of the fabric of the wooden pod from WZ450 in the 90's, there was the trace remains of a two numeral number... Not enough to ID it though. It would make sense if it was the number from its last unit the RAF college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritJet Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, David A Collins said: Thanks HTH, I can't offer further details to the 202 and 233 codes, however when we stripped the remains of the fabric of the wooden pod from WZ450 in the 90's, there was the trace remains of a two numeral number... Not enough to ID it though. It would make sense if it was the number from its last unit the RAF college. The pod of WZ450 was at an ATC unit near my old school and had 23 painted on it by the squadron. They were going to paint 2371 as this was the squadron number but ran out of space after the 23! As far as I remember this was only on the one side, left I think, could this be the number you found the remains of? Unfortunately I never bothered to take a photo of it and it seems nobody else ever did either. Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, BritJet said: The pod of WZ450 was at an ATC unit near my old school and had 23 painted on it by the squadron. They were going to paint 2371 as this was the squadron number but ran out of space after the 23! As far as I remember this was only on the one side, left I think, could this be the number you found the remains of? Unfortunately I never bothered to take a photo of it and it seems nobody else ever did either. Steve Hi Steve, Thank you. You have just proved again, that it is always worth asking questions on this forum! Now I think of it, the black numbers were only on the port side of the pod and it was painted white. Does this overall colour match your recollection too? So if the number was related to the ATC unit, then it's probably not the last code from the RAF College unless it is coincidentally the same? Edited March 28, 2018 by David A Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritJet Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Until they painted the 23 on the side it didn't have any visible markings and was silver, I remember seeing it from the early 70s like that. I don't remember it being white at any point but the last time I saw it would have been in the mid-80s so it may well have been re-painted. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 12 hours ago, BritJet said: Until they painted the 23 on the side it didn't have any visible markings and was silver, I remember seeing it from the early 70s like that. I don't remember it being white at any point but the last time I saw it would have been in the mid-80s so it may well have been re-painted. Steve Great, thanks Steve. Silver (doped fabric covering) would make sense on the wooden cockpit. Its interesting that it was devoid of markings. When HSA disposed of these re-furbished T.11's in the late 60's to ATC units and museums, all those I have seen retained the markings of their previous units. I wonder if WZ450 received new fabric before being disposed of?? The white paint looked non-aviation, so could well have been roller'ed on late in the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritJet Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I think it still had all the original stencils etc but there weren't any unit markings that I ever saw. I would doubt that HSA would have bothered to re-fabric any of the ATC pods/complete airframes as they were effectively the leftovers after the valuable engine etc had been removed and of no value to HSA. I would love to find a photo of WZ450 in service. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 26/03/2018 at 15:52, Seahawk said: From Alan Lake's Flying Units of the RAF: Vampire FB.5 WA117, FB.9 WL573, T.11 WZ584. No codes given for any of 2 CAACU's aircraft. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampiredave Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) No.2 CAACU was operated by Marshall Flying Services and, for a relatively obscure, second-line unit, operated quite a few Vampires: Vampire FB.5 (April - December 1954) VV463, VV482, VV550, VV687, VV688, VX983, VZ125, VZ268, VZ345, VZ812, VZ816, WA117, WA124, WA235, WA252, WA282, WA286, WA357, WA377, WA391, WA399, WA414, WA415 and WA427. Vampire FB.9 (April - November 1958) WL560, WL573, WP994, WP995, WR133, WR232 and WR237. Vampire T Mk.11 (April - December 1958) WZ464, WZ476, WZ584, WZ588, XD375 and XE869. The aircraft were uncoded but I am curious as to why there is a gap between December 1954 and April 1958? See next post for possible explanation. Vampire T Mk.11, WZ450: flown by No.202 AFS from October 1952 to May 1953 - no code letters traced, which is surprising as the unit was using 'N', 'O' and 'P' prefixes during this period; No.233 OCU May 1953 to February 1955 - the unit's Vampire trainers did not carry code letters; RAF College, Cranwell January to October 1956 - allocated fleet numbers '44'. Edited March 31, 2018 by vampiredave Amendment 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 Thanks Dave, fantastic information! Do you have any info on colours or unit markings for these Vampires? Were they all silver? Any with black & yellow TT stripes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampiredave Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I had forgotten that between October 1952 and November 1958, No.2 CAACU operated ten Mosquito TT 35s: TA633/E, TA647/J, TA699, TA703/F, RV367/J, TH981, TH997, TK605/E, TK606/C, and TK607. These aircraft would have carried out the target-towing duties, leaving the Vampires for the high-speed target tracking role, etc, for the army anti-aircraft gunners. The unit was also unique at one stage in having the only female Mosquito pilot -Veronika Volkersz. I used to have a photograph of the unit's Vampires many, many years ago, which if memory serves me (?) depicted the Vampires in a overall silver finish. At the end of the line-up however there was a camouflaged example. This may (?) have been one of the unit's Vampire FB.9s, which were being delivered from the factory in the day fighter scheme? Unlike the Mosquito aircraft, I can't recall seeing any code letters on the Vampires. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Brilliant, thanks Dave! I need to find a suitable Mossie kit for a TT.35 too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 For the moment there aren't any models of the 2-stage Merlin Mossies, but apparently both Special Hobby and AZ are working on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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