Typhoon elevators and control column

[bobsyouruncle]

Hi Gents.

Can I ask if anybody please knows how far forward the control column goes on a Typhoon please?

I'm asking as on most wartime parked Typhoon shots, the elevators look to be in the 'down' position (column forwards).

On my Airfix 24th scale kit, the column is positioned roughly halfway between the leading edge of the pilots seat bucket and the instrument panel.

If fitted without any alterations, the column is slightly angled back (5 degrees towards the seat) if using the horizontal foot plates as a guide.

I can alter the column rods to the correct angle to show some 'down' elevator, but would really like to know roughly how far forwards this needs to be (either as an angle off 90 degrees to compare against the foot plates or a fraction of the distance between seat and instrument panel) if at all possible, please.

Any help as always, very gratefully received. Cheers Bob.

 

[Chris Thomas]

Bob, I know Britmodeller is a great place for getting answers to tricky questions, but who the the Hell do you think is going to answer this?  Perhaps the Hawker design office, but if any are still with us ... I don't think they'll remember.

CT

[Black Knight]

A control column only needs to move a small amount to deflect the control surfaces. The control column would only need to move no more than about 5 degrees forwards to deflect the elevators to their full movement

There might be a reproduction booklet of 'pilots notes' for the H.Typhoon which may have accurate information

[bobsyouruncle]

9 hours ago, Chris Thomas said:

Bob, I know Britmodeller is a great place for getting answers to tricky questions, but who the the Hell do you think is going to answer this?  Perhaps the Hawker design office, but if any are still with us ... I don't think they'll remember.

CT

Hi Chris, well I've no idea who's out there but there are 22000 members listed as of March so I just thought I'd ask?

I have been and always will be, very grateful for all the information you've personally provided me with, but the last thing I'd want to risk is becoming a sort of nuisance, so I thought I'd throw this one out to one and all? 

 

There are two full size Typhoon restoration projects on the go out there with engineers and a flying Sea Fury at Duxford (not too far off from a Tempest) and I don't know if any of them frequent here at all. Sometimes a snippet of information might get passed on in an anecdote (e.g. if a veteran visits a current project and gets to sit in the office again), or they might know from engineering drawings.

I realise of course that this is a very small and insignificant detail which doesn't matter to anyone.

I only asked because the control column is one of the last bits to go in my cockpit and I started to think about aileron and elevator positions being linked to this (build so far here):-

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235035426-airfix-24th-typhoon-zipp-x/

 

It doesn't matter one jot in the big scheme of things but I like to absorb myself on my days off, in the world of unimportant minutiae (compared to my normal day job on the ambulance which deals with the serious stuff, like arrests and other nasty things), where I can pretend everything's

alright and have a bit of relaxing music on at the same time.

I know I'll have done a lot incorrectly already and that's how it will always be, but it's an absorbing little challenge I set myself to try and have my best go at it and see just how far I can go, within the restrictions on the info I can obtain.

 

Hi Black Knight, thanks for that. I looked ahead to the part in the Airfix instructions where the elevators can be positioned 23 degrees up or 24 down and I didn't know if this was geared down or not, compared to the column.

I did say that I was after a rough position but didn't know if the kit was set to 'neutral' or not?

If it's like the Spit, then I'd guess the column could go nearly halfway forward from it's current position towards the instrument panel? 

In a lot of photos the Typhoons have no aileron deflection, so that's an easy one.

 

Thanks, Bob.

 

 

[noelh]

Have a look at this picture of the partially completed jetage museum restoration. There's a clear forward slope. Presumably resting against the stop. Hope that helps.

Edited March 26, 2018 by noelh
Bid speeling

[bobsyouruncle]

Hi Noel, thanks very much for that.

I can see that forward sloping angle in your photo, but have to add that I've been having to treat any restoration projects with a degree of caution as compared to the originals, (especially when they aren't connected up to te rest of the aircraft) but it's very good and kind of you to send it, thank you (I wasn't aware of the jetage museum, but am now). Where is that please?

I'd be interested to know what references they worked from, Noel (looks like the early seat type they've got there also).

 

I decide to go 'fully articulated' in terms of control column position and have been doing some work on this (see thread):-

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235035426-airfix-24th-typhoon-zipp-x/

 

Having noted that Spitfires in photos do a similar thing with their ailerons when parked, in photos, I asked a friend (who flies them in his spare time) about the extent of movement in their control columns.

I'd wondered if the downward positioned elevators were due to a set procedure, or say, gravity.

 

He replied that the Spit elevators hang 'because of the weight of them' and that in that situation, the column is positioned aproximately 3 inches off the face of the instrument panel.

I know this is not a Spit, but it explains a little how things work.

 

Thanks very much again,

Cheers Bob.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[noelh]

Great work on that cockpit. The Jetage museum is at Gloucester Airport and they specialise in Gloster aircraft!

Can't speak for their references but I would wager that the column is resting against a stop of some sort because of course it's not connected to the elevators. 

I don't have any knowledge of the rigging of the Typhoon but most simpler aeroplane control surfaces have stops to limit their deflection. But there is also a stop for the control column. If you push forward on the stick you'll hit the limit on the elevators but if you continue pushing you'll also hit the mechanical stop for the stick before you snap the cables or foul the instrument panel. 

Again without knowing anything about the the Typhoon. We can only best guess.

I also notice that many photos show neutral elevators. I wonder if there was a control lock in the cockpit?

 

Will be following your build with interest now.

 

 

[bobsyouruncle]

Thanks again Noel, interesting information. 

When I first saw your photo, I thought that there seemed quite a bit of space available in front of the column but have only just now realised that there's no oil tank or instrument panel to the rear of the firewall, so that's why.

Cheers Bob.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I reckon you could safely assume the hand grip will move something like 6 inches forward of neutral elevator to achieve full down. The pilot needs to be able to achieve full movement whilst strapped in, but equally full deflection from very small movements both make for very heavy controls and difficulty in fine control.

 

It's not so much about designing angles, it's ergonomics. In 1/24th scale, if your hand grip was around 1/4" forward of the neutral position, it's not going to look too silly.