Hawker Hunter F5 - Detail differences to F-6

[Mattlow]

Hello

 

I've resurrected a conversion of the Revell 1/32 Hunter F6 to an F5. I have done the tail pipe,  engine vent changes, changing airbrake to early version and removed the dog tooth - i.e. the big stuff.

 

I'm doing WP130 which has the Sabrinas either not present or removed (were F5s built without them and then retrofitted?).

 

What I am wondering about are the various aerials and the intakes/outlets in the cockpit area. These are my questions:

 

• Would WP130 have had the ranging radar antenna inside the air intakes?
• The two aerials mounted on the centreline of the belly (one behind the other)
• The intake on the belly just behind the nose gear
• The two outlets just in front of where the Sabrinas would be 
• Any other antennae different to F6...

 

Seems to be variation between  F5s but, though not clearest of images, the sole photo of WP130 looks like it has none of these antennae.

 

Thanks

 

matt

[StephenMG]

Hi Matt,

 

There is rarely a definitive answer for things on a Hunter as the various mod states often spanned marks with some mods being retrospecively fitted to older aircraft and newer aircraft sometimes not receiving them at all!

 

Firstly though , the aerials you refer to in the intakes on the Revell F.6 are for a navigation system called DME (Distance Measuring Equipment) rather than gun ranging (that was done purely with the radar in the nose). The F.6 used a DME system called Rebecca 8 which had 4 aerials - the two in the intakes and one each in the starter access and engine access doors in the belly - these will be the 2 aerials you refer to as being one behind the other. However, the F.4 and F.5 used an earlier model of DME called Rebecca 7 which only had the two aerials in the belly, but see the answer to question 2 below.

 

So to answer your first question - no aerials in the intakes.

Second question - yes and no! Rebecca 7 did have the transmit and receive aerials in the belly, but they were 'built in' to the access doors and so not really visible and certainly not the rod aerials that the F.6 had and which are in the Revell kit. So you can ditch them too.

The intake behind the nose gear, no. The F.5 was smoooooth there, just as Sir Sydney intended! Same for the vents in front of the Sabrinas.

 

As for any other antennas different to the F.6, well that depends on the timeframe and mod state. Compared to the Revell kit though (which is a later mod state I suspect), you'll need to chuck them all away. Off the top of my head I can't remember what's in the kit now but if there's a UHF blade aerial just behind the hood, ditch it. If there's a small triangular IFF aerial on a little platform half way along the spine, ditch that too.

 

All you'll need are two VHF whip aerials - side by side straddling the spine just above the centre of the wing. You can just about make them out in the photos of WP126 and WN990 here - https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/model/Hawker Hunter F5. There is also a similar IFF whip aerial on the underside centreline which emerges virtually from the aft panel line of the radio bay doors. These whip aerials are so thin that they are fiendishly difficult to see on photos but you just about make them out in the photo in the first post here - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235012085-hawker-hunter-circular-stencil-below-cockpit/. There's one more whip aerial which is even more difficult to spot on photos. It's on the lower surface of the port wing just outboard of the roundel position. I can't find a picture to link to that shows it unfortunately but if you have trouble with it I can post a drawing. All these whip aerials are angled backwards and usually painted yellow.

 

[Edit: I've just had another look at the photo in the link above and you can, in fact, just about make out the position of the underwing aerial. Look at the underside of the wing, then locate the left-most red ranel in the lower wingtip chequerboard. Immediately below that, visible against the reflections in the silver of the underwing, you can see a tiny black spot - that's the base of the aerial! Very hard to see but it is there!]

 

One further thing, don't forget the early Hunters had a slightly different design of airbrake to that fitted later. The Revell kit will have the later style so you may want to reshape yours - see this post http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235000770-a-hunter-from-fife-finished/&page=4&tab=comments#comment-2375347 for some photos I posted showing the difference. They're still on Photobucket though so heaven knows if they'll show up for you! Let me know if not.

 

Hope that's helpful. Good luck with the model.

 

Mark

Edited March 25, 2018 by StephenMG

[Mattlow]

Mark

 

That's more than just helpful. A most comprehensive answer.

 

Best of all, your advice corresponds to some of the decisions I made earlier

 

I spent some of last night retro-re-building the airbrake to the earlier shape. It isn't perfect but it is visibly different to the late model now. With regard to the 'built in aerials for the nav system (on the belly) would there be any visible sign of them (not those three sided bare metal things you see are they? I've erased all sign of the two aerial locations but can add something with paint or decal if need be.

 

Glad to hear the vents exhausts are absent as well. I do like this Hunter because it has no Sabrinas and looks clean. I may do the F3 next..

 

Thanks

 

Matt

 

PS: hadn't realised the Rebecca aerials were for DME... Live and learn

 

[StephenMG]

Hi Matt,

 

I didn't think there was much visible at all where those DME aerials were. I've just looked through as many photos of F.4 and F.5 undersides as I can find and there's nothing visible that I can see. Just the three-sided square thing you mentioned.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[71chally]

On 25/03/2018 at 6:27 PM, StephenMG said:

Just the three-sided square thing you mentioned.

That's a triangle!

Sorry couldn't resist Mark.  BTW Hunter heaven here at the moment, a T.8 and an F.6 flying and the PR.11 being made ready.

 

 

Excellent info on the F.5 and the sight of one in 32nd scale is worth waiting for!

Edited March 27, 2018 by 71chally

[StephenMG]

41 minutes ago, 71chally said:

That's a triangle!

 

There's always one smart-ar$e isn't there?!!!

 

So glad to hear there's some proper Hunter action going on again. I'll have to pop down, I haven't had a nose around since the Exeter days.

[Mattlow]

Thanks Stephen for the info and 71Chally for the geometry lesson..

 

I will post this up when I've a bit more paint on her. The HSS undersurfaces are decanted Tamiya AS 12 which is pretty unforgiving when it comes to surface finish...

 

Where are the restored Hunters based? 

 

Matt

 

[71chally]

12 hours ago, Mattlow said:

Where are the restored Hunters based? 

 

Matt

St Athan is where the engineering is undertaken Matt, the T.8 and F.6 are both Dutch Hunters that flew over last week for maintenance, and are the first to fly again on the civil register.

Also at SA are some based examples including the gorgous recently repainted PR.11 which due to a mishap with a certain Sea Vixen last year I think we shall see more of on the airshow circuit this year.

 

Just a taster...

 

Hawker Hunter PR.11 WT723 692 LM (G-PRII) by James Thomas, on Flickr

 

Hawker Hunter F.6A XF515 (G-KAXF) 'N-294' Dutch Hawker Hunter Foundation by James Thomas, on Flickr

 

Hawker Hunter T.8C XF357 (G-BWGL) 'N-321' by James Thomas, on Flickr

 

Hawker Hunter T.7 XL573 (G-BVGH) by James Thomas, on Flickr

 

 

I do like the early Hunters, wouldn't it be nice to see an F.2 or 5 flying!

Edited March 27, 2018 by 71chally

[Mattlow]

Thanks for those photos.

 

It would be nice to see an early Hunter fly. Doubt it'll happen though...

 

Cheers

 

Matt