keefr22 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dave Batt said: You're not taking into account that the "course" could be only the day before, it's a massive amount of information to take in and only a fractional amount will be absorbed because of the stress/excitement/adrenalin/anticipation, etc. Or it could have been at the start of the person's Red's posting. But whenever it was, I would bet that the pilot would give his back seater a further briefing before they flew. But, it's all just speculation until the investigators make their report.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I'm not sure we need to be encouraging litigation at this stage based on pure conjecture. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Let's not get carried away with our own surmises. We just don't know, unless some of you were there? Keep it to the facts, condolences and let's leave all the speculation to others. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris57 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 The saddest part of this, at least to myself is that the post office released a set of stamps today commemorating the 100th anniversary of the RAF. In addition to the six stamps in the presentation pack there are four further stamps also featuring the Red Arrows. Fate can be so unkind. Perhaps the post office will make a contribution to the RAF Benevolent fund if their not already doing so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) Sad news but wasn't surprised judging by the tone of the early reports. As for the briefing aspect, yes the back seater would have been trained and the pilot would have briefed pre flight. A friend of mine was a Harrier pilot. Once he was taking a female officer on a flight. He previously had to eject. He briefed her that he would shout eject, eject, eject but whatever happened if she saw his heels passing in front of her, she was on her own. Sometime later on a flight with another pilot, she had to eject. She later met my friend again and told him that's exactly what happened. She barely made it. The problem is that it can be a difference of tens of a second between a safe result and a bad one. Plus you don't know how people react to an emergency. On a skydive flight I had an engine problem. I turned to the guys in the back and told them to bale out now in no uncertain terms. One got the message and jumped. The others just sat there. One even closed the door! They got out eventually but they had plenty of time. On the point of a command ejection. Years ago the Nav in a Tornado command ejected both crew when he misunderstood an expletive from the pilot and overreacted. I think SOPs were changed after that. But whatever the reason it's a sobering reminder of the dangers of military flying. All flying is potentially dangerous. I've lost several friends to accidents. Edited March 21, 2018 by noelh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 The mech in the back knows full well how a bang seat works, how to use it, he has to, he works near it ,sits in it while working in the cockpit, checks the pins every time he gets in, safe for servicing etc. and even removes it if he's Weapons trade. We knew about these things in training and pretty sure he will have had proper briefing before the flight from the Pilot. There isn't anytime to explain when somethings gone wrong. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Corporal Jonathan Bayliss RIP 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Im a bit annoyed with certain people on this thread....lets call them lower deck lawyers or armchair admirals who i strongly suspect (and apologises if im wrong) have never been in the armed force and feel that suddenly they are experts on the legalities of non aircrew flying.Pretty sure the regulations have got that covered...and we dont know if it was a jolly or actual work ....check test flights etc etc if it was work then people in flight test are well trained. Id be interested to know where all the knowledge came from ....the DASOR isnt even released yet 9 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixII Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, bzn20 said: Corporal Jonathan Bayliss RIP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, junglierating said: Im a bit annoyed with certain people on this thread....lets call them lower deck lawyers or armchair admirals who i strongly suspect (and apologises if im wrong) have never been in the armed force and feel that suddenly they are experts on the legalities of non aircrew flying.Pretty sure the regulations have got that covered...and we dont know if it was a jolly or actual work ....check test flights etc etc if it was work then people in flight test are well trained. Id be interested to know where all the knowledge came from ....the DASOR isnt even released yet Well said and should be heeded. RIP Cpl Bayliss Julien 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Gents, I have been asked by a colleague of the deceased who is on here that you reign your comments in and keep them to the topic in hand. I have now deleted previous comments. We will not be asking again. Please respect that someone had died here. Julien 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phone Phixer Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Even more sadness now. I knew Jon Bayliss on 16R Sqn, Jag OCU. A top bloke, real gent. RIP Jon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I can respect that. I've lost three friends in air accidents. Hard to take when it's literally headline news in the morning paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I highly doubt the RAF makes it a one-day crash course. In the RCAF we trained seat safety in every course we take. We are required to know the ejection system inside and out. We have to know seat safety, how to arm and rearm our seats, as well as the sequences. Seat safety is the first step of every technical procedure. In the CF-18, unless the rear seat is safetied, the command sequence is back seat first before the front seat goes. Otherwise the back seater would be burned by the front seaters rockets. I never worked Hawks, although I expect the sequence is the same. I don’t trust eyewitness accounts, both may have ejected with one chute not opening or being seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 On 2018-03-21 at 3:55 AM, Dave Batt said: You're not taking into account that the "course" could be only the day before, it's a massive amount of information to take in and only a fractional amount will be absorbed because of the stress/excitement/adrenalin/anticipation, etc. I was quoting this comment, some reason the quote disappeared from my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEMPESTMK5 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Patrice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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