RN Hawker Sea Hawk from 810 Sqdn on HMS Albion, December 1956

[CJP]

24 minutes ago, Basilisk said:

Thanks Chris. I thought it will be an easy and quick build as all reviews raved about this kit. But I have the bad habit of comparing models to pictures and this has the potential to open a can of worms

 

But I do enjoy correcting inaccuracies. I realize that not everyone likes to do this and is happy in building a kit out of the box and the Sea Hawk does make a nice model when done like that, just not an accurate one

 

You can see (saw) my riveters I use for 1/48 scale models in my Me 262 build. To me rivets enhance a model nicely, but I also accept that many see them as unnecessary or even wrong. Of course to represent rivets as little holes isn't correct as such (but then, neither are many panel lines), but it gives an illusion of rivets and in my eye they should only be visible if looking close as with a real aircraft. And I do like the process of adding rivets - I guess I am nuts

 

In regards to the Sea Hawk nose, making it right is very difficult as the fuselage curvature has several issue. But I hope it will look better when done.

 

Cheers, Peter

Thanks Peter - just read your comments on tools on your Me262 build - I have never been motivated to add rivets before but am watching your builds with interest - who knows I might be inspired to try - up until now I've been happy if the model looks ok in my display case from a couple of feet away - I also used 4Plus Sea Hawk plans and some very old Aviation News ones enlarged but found plans are often not quite right or differ so referring to photos like you do is best - I'm afraid I can't build a model straight out of the box so they end up taking some time with the danger of periods on the shelf of doom

Chris

CJP

[Basilisk]

On 5/29/2018 at 11:38 PM, CJP said:

I'm afraid I can't build a model straight out of the box so they end up taking some time with the danger of periods on the shelf of doom

Chris

CJP

Sounds very familiar - most of my models re on the shelf of doom - or I like to call it "work in progress"

 

Not much progress this week, but I managed to sort out the nose job which ended up more complicated than I was hoping for.  Reduced the plastic on the nose which removed most of the plastic.

 

So I decided to shorten the nose another mm and then add a plasticard disc to make it all a bit more solid. Bu this created a rather large hole which needed to be filled first. After that was done I carved in the air duct channel prior adding the disk.

 

I did add the opening into the disk prior fitting it to the nose.

I think it will look fine when it is painted. I can now smooth out everything, add the lost panel lines and then rivet the front fuselage...

 

Next was the jet exhaust opening. Looks I opened another can of worm there as well. Took things a bit too far when thinning down the edge of the opening, resulting in a rather poor fit of the insert.

But nothing my potion of CA with Talcum powder can't fix.

 

Cheers, Peter

[Chewbacca]

Clearly my attention to detail over the shape of the nose failed - I thought the kit version look about right until I saw the difference in yours.  Great job.

 

I note you haven't pre-fitted the jet exhausts.  I couldn't work out a way of fitting them after the fuselage halves came together owing to their curvature.  Did I miss something?  It's a real pain having spent ages spraying them with Alclad only to have to overspray them and start again because masking was nigh on impossible.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Chewbacca

[Basilisk]

15 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Clearly my attention to detail over the shape of the nose failed - I thought the kit version look about right until I saw the difference in yours.  Great job.

 

I note you haven't pre-fitted the jet exhausts.  I couldn't work out a way of fitting them after the fuselage halves came together owing to their curvature.  Did I miss something?  It's a real pain having spent ages spraying them with Alclad only to have to overspray them and start again because masking was nigh on impossible.

 

The nose issue is a bit complicated. Visually it looks that the front wheel undercarriage bay is too far back, but I feel that the fuselage is too long. In any case, it is easier to shorten the nose than to move the front wheel undercarriage bay forward.

 

In regards to the jet exhausts, no you didn't miss anything, but it is a good question (and whenever someone is saying "it is a good question", they don't know the answer...). As I thinned down the opening, it is now larger and I still can enter the jet exhausts parts. And with the tail section not yet attached, I can see how things line up.

 

Ideally I like to add them on the finished model due to the painting issues you experienced, but with the tail section in place, it will be much more difficult. Have to work something out when reworking this part of the kit.

 

Cheers, Peter

[Chewbacca]

Thanks Peter, I'm looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.  It'll certainly put mine to shame.

[trickyrich]

gee it did need quite a bit removed! That exhaust area looks like it'll be fun to sort out, I'd be inclined to scratch build that inner section.

[Basilisk]

On 6/5/2018 at 5:23 AM, Chewbacca said:

Thanks Peter, I'm looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.  It'll certainly put mine to shame.

I wouldn't say that. But yourswill be finished within the time frame of this GB and mine won't

 

On 6/6/2018 at 3:07 PM, trickyrich said:

gee it did need quite a bit removed! That exhaust area looks like it'll be fun to sort out, I'd be inclined to scratch build that inner section.

Scratch building would have been an option, but my CA mixture will do the job too.

 

And yes, I am still working on the Sea Hawk and even made some progress, but at a snail's pace...

 

I filled the gaps and opened up the opening so that I can insert the jet exhaust pipes from the rear.

I can now insert the jet exhaust pipes from the rear, but the stop on the pipe can easily be moved over the stop (red circle), so I had to come up with something to stop the pipe disappear inside the fuselage.

 

I made two shrouds which fit around the jet exhaust pipes.

It was a bit of a pain in the but to fit them behind the stop and some colourful language was unavoidable But it work.

 

Next was reworking the exhaust fairing which looks a bit odd on the kit. But the problem is to find a picture of this section. Yes there are many on the web But...

It all depends if the picture was taken with a tele or wide angle lens I would think that the top picture is more a scale representation.

 

In any case, some re-shaping on the kit was in order.

And a good junk had to go.

 

Left is before and right is after the reshaping.

 

And the same from the side.

Doesn't look much different I know.

 

But seeing it from this angle does.

Fortunately I filled the part inside the fairing with my CA mixture as reshaping the fairing removed all the plastic.

 

It isn't perfect in shape, but it was the best I could do without any major rework.

Cheers, Peter

[Biggles87]

Some  good  '  fettling '  there Peter,  and a good idea with the shrouds.

 

John

[CJP]

Hi Peter - good to see another update on this Sea Hawk build - you've done some fabulous neat engineering fitting those exhaust pipes to the fuselage and reshaping the jet exhaust fairings - the nose intake is also very nicely done - I'm still pondering the nose profile over a beer

- you are very good at capturing the shape of the aircraft in your models so will wait and see - great work

Also interesting to read your comments about photographs and accuracy of shapes with different lens/cameras.

CJP

Edited June 18, 2018 by CJP

[trickyrich]

gee some nice work there Peter!

[Basilisk]

On 6/18/2018 at 3:05 PM, Biggles87 said:

Some  good  '  fettling '  there Peter,  and a good idea with the shrouds.

 

John

Thanks John, but if I ever build another Sea Hawk, I will add the shrouds before gluing the fuselage together.

 

On 6/18/2018 at 7:09 PM, CJP said:

Hi Peter - good to see another update on this Sea Hawk build - you've done some fabulous neat engineering fitting those exhaust pipes to the fuselage and reshaping the jet exhaust fairings - the nose intake is also very nicely done - I'm still pondering the nose profile over a beer

- you are very good at capturing the shape of the aircraft in your models so will wait and see - great work

Also interesting to read your comments about photographs and accuracy of shapes with different lens/cameras.

CJP

Unfortunately the shapes on this kit are more wrong than right. to me the whole rear fuselage including the fin is too wide which has an effect on many other shapes including the exhaust fairing.

 

22 hours ago, trickyrich said:

gee some nice work there Peter!

Thanks Rich, but would love more progress.

 

Talking about progress, I will be away until late July which wasn't planed, so there won't be any further progress in the time frame of this GB , but plan to continue when I get back.

 

Cheers, Peter

[CJP]

2 hours ago, Basilisk said:

Thanks John, but if I ever build another Sea Hawk, I will add the shrouds before gluing the fuselage together.

 

Unfortunately the shapes on this kit are more wrong than right. to me the whole rear fuselage including the fin is too wide which has an effect on many other shapes including the exhaust fairing.

 

Thanks Rich, but would love more progress.

 

Talking about progress, I will be away until late July which wasn't planed, so there won't be any further progress in the time frame of this GB , but plan to continue when I get back.

 

Cheers, Peter

HI Peter

I guess a lot of kits are a bit of a compromise but I'm sure from seeing your work so far that yours will build into an impressive replica - it amazing that the manufacturers especially Trumpeter can't get it right with the modern computerised tools at their disposal (is it called LIDAR?) - Airfix seems to be getting theirs  right though looking at the Sea Vixen and Sea Fury compared to others - looking forward to you resuming the build in July.

cheers Chris

CJP

Edited June 19, 2018 by CJP
text

[Basilisk]

On 6/19/2018 at 10:20 PM, CJP said:

HI Peter

I guess a lot of kits are a bit of a compromise but I'm sure from seeing your work so far that yours will build into an impressive replica - it amazing that the manufacturers especially Trumpeter can't get it right with the modern computerised tools at their disposal (is it called LIDAR?) - Airfix seems to be getting theirs  right though looking at the Sea Vixen and Sea Fury compared to others - looking forward to you resuming the build in July.

cheers Chris

CJP

Yes most kits are compromises, but Trumpeter does take compromising a bit too far The good news is that I am bock on the build and should have further updates from time to time.

 

Spent some time reworking the tail plane bullet as it just doesn't look right what Trumpeter done with it.

Left Trumpeter and right reworked bullet. I lengthened it by 2mm and reshaped it.

 

And here a comparison to the original.

I think it looks much better now, even though the bullet is a rather complex shape and looks different on every picture.

 

Next is to finally glue the fuselage together, rescribe panel lines and finish the riveting on the fuselage...

Cheers, Peter

 

 

[Troy Smith]

27 minutes ago, Basilisk said:

Yes most kits are compromises, but Trumpeter does take compromising a bit too far

the Trumpeter Sea Hawk has overall been prised for being accurate,  not meaning to denigrate your careful work,  apparently the Sea Hawk and Wyvern originate from a collaboration with Monochrome in Japan.

This is the first time I've seen the kit queried for accuracy in any major way, thanks for taking the time do this and show possible fixes.

 

On 19/6/2018 at 13:20, CJP said:

it amazing that the manufacturers especially Trumpeter can't get it right with the modern computerised tools at their disposal

  Trumpeter don't giving a flying popsicle for research,  they just google up some plans and plough on,  as long as it "looks" like the subject.....

If anything they are getting worse, they are now doing new tool kits which already exist,  Defiant, Sea Vixen, Firefly,  which all have better kits available, often cheaper in the UK! All 3 have been reviewed here, all are a waste of time. 

 

The sad thing is, they used to have an employee, @song, who was a Trumpeter employee, who did ask for help

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/55621-spiteful-seafang-master

 

lots of information, corrections, advice given, none used, the kits were exactly as the initial CAD images, which is a real shame, as if they had continued on this path they would have not done the following....

 

  after that they stuffed up the Vampire (too fat) DH Hornet (many problems) Sea Fury, Whirlwind...... 

they even manage to make a mess of items they could go and look at,  they have done a MiG-21F-13,  which while the right basic shape, is full of detail errors, and China MiG's are based on the 1st generation MiG-21.... (and for some reason Eduard are not going to do the 1st generation MiG-21)

oddly enough, one kits they did a do a really good job on(or more precisely, whoever did the research for them id), their 1/24th Hurricane, has not been hit with the shrink ray....

when the research is good, so are the kits, and they have done some good ones, many of the 32nd I have not read much negative about, and especially over on Hyperscale and ARC there is much trumpy bashing to be had.

Peter, apologies for the digression,  just adding some background.

 

cheers

T

 

 

[CJP]

Hi Peter - glad to see your Sea Hawk underway again - that tailplane bullet on yours looks really good and just shows how wrong Trumpeter got it! - I made an almost identical correction on mine using a vertical template and Tamiya putty but as you said it was a hard shape to capture - I can now see what you mean about rivets adding interest - mine looks a bit naked by comparison.

Found a couple more photos of my Sea Hawk under construction - focus not too good but you can see my similar corrections.

For now my Trumpeter Sea Hawk Mark 100 will stay in my stash -  It would be nice if Airfix did a Sea Hawk as a follow on from their Sea Fury and save us a lot of work.

Chris

[CJP]

15 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

the Trumpeter Sea Hawk has overall been prised for being accurate,  not meaning to denigrate your careful work,  apparently the Sea Hawk and Wyvern originate from a collaboration with Monochrome in Japan.

This is the first time I've seen the kit queried for accuracy in any major way, thanks for taking the time do this and show possible fixes.

 

 

Thanks Troy this is interesting information re origins of the Trumpeter Sea Hawk & Wyvern kits -

CJP

Edited July 25, 2018 by CJP
text

[Azgaron]

Excellent work building and correcting the kit! Looks very good so far!

 

Håkan

 

[Basilisk]

On 7/25/2018 at 12:07 AM, Troy Smith said:

the Trumpeter Sea Hawk has overall been prised for being accurate,  not meaning to denigrate your careful work,  apparently the Sea Hawk and Wyvern originate from a collaboration with Monochrome in Japan.

This is the first time I've seen the kit queried for accuracy in any major way, thanks for taking the time do this and show possible fixes.@song

Your post made interesting reading. I am aware of Trumpeter's "business model" and my stash is close to Trumpeter free. I too thought that the Trumpeter Sea Hawk is one of their better kits, but when comparing details with photographs, it becomes obvious that the kit is full of inaccuracies of which I only corrected the most noticeable one.

 

But even with all the inaccuracies on this kit, it still does look like a Sea Hawk and maybe not many modellers compare their kits with pictures.

 

On 7/25/2018 at 9:11 AM, CJP said:

Hi Peter - glad to see your Sea Hawk underway again - that tailplane bullet on yours looks really good and just shows how wrong Trumpeter got it! - I made an almost identical correction on mine using a vertical template and Tamiya putty but as you said it was a hard shape to capture - I can now see what you mean about rivets adding interest - mine looks a bit naked by comparison.

Found a couple more photos of my Sea Hawk under construction - focus not too good but you can see my similar corrections.

For now my Trumpeter Sea Hawk Mark 100 will stay in my stash -  It would be nice if Airfix did a Sea Hawk as a follow on from their Sea Fury and save us a lot of work.

Chris

Thanks for sharing your approach to correct the shape. I actually reduced the width as well and extended the bullet towards the rudder and all in all, it was a fiddly job.

 

On 7/26/2018 at 12:52 AM, Azgaron said:

Excellent work building and correcting the kit! Looks very good so far!

 

Håkan

 

Thanks Håkan. I thought this will be a mostly OOB build, but didn't turn out that way.

Cheers, Peter

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Peter 

I am catching up with this thread. Absolutely awesome work fella.  I have added to my  favourites as it is so informative and I have got a Seahawk started and seeing your thread made me realise evaluate and I will now try and correct it too.  Thanks for sharing this informative and inspirational build. 

All the best 

Chris 

Edited July 28, 2018 by bigbadbadge
Now caught up. Awesome thread

[CJP]

13 hours ago, Basilisk said:

Thanks for sharing your approach to correct the shape. I actually reduced the width as well and extended the bullet towards the rudder and all in all, it was a fiddly job. 

 

You sure have an eye for detail Peter - I completely missed how the bullet extends backwards but it is quite obvious now you have pointed it out

CJP

[Basilisk]

23 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

Hi Peter 

I am catching up with this thread. Absolutely awesome work fella.  I have added to my  favourites as it is so informative and I have got a Seahawk started and seeing your thread made me realise evaluate and I will now try and correct it too.  Thanks for sharing this informative and inspirational build. 

All the best 

Chris 

I am glad that the information in my build is of any use to you. But keep in mind that this becomes easily a Pandora's box

 

10 hours ago, CJP said:

You sure have an eye for detail Peter - I completely missed how the bullet extends backwards but it is quite obvious now you have pointed it out

CJP

Sometimes I wish I don't have the eye for details But I cheated a little and only extended the bullet above the horizontal stabilizer and not below as this part of the model isn't to visual.

 

Not much progress in the build. I did glue the rear section to the main fuselage.

As can be seen, the panel lines don't line up and need to be re-scribed. The reworked jet exhaust needs some more work as well, but does look much better as what Trumpeter had.

 

I also had a look at the wing fold details. I temporarly fitted the Pavla wing fold detail set.

It doesn't look too bad. It will go further into the wing, but I like to refine some of the detail first.

 

Here a picture of the actual wing fold as a comparison.

 

That is all for now.

Cheers, Peter

[CJP]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 10:26 PM, Basilisk said:

 

I also had a look at the wing fold details. I temporarly fitted the Pavla wing fold detail set.

It doesn't look too bad. It will go further into the wing, but I like to refine some of the detail first.

 

Here a picture of the actual wing fold as a comparison.

 

That is all for now.

Cheers, Peter

I had not seen the Pavla wing folds before but they look better in my opinion than the inner Wolfpack ones - a pity they don't make them with the correct whole wing fold cross section as an end plug - this  could then be fitted after cutting off a few millimetres off the kit part. These should look good after you do your stuff

Chris

Edited August 3, 2018 by CJP
text

[Basilisk]

On 7/29/2018 at 11:47 PM, CJP said:

I had not seen the Pavla wing folds before but they look better in my opinion than the inner Wolfpack ones - a pity they don't make them with the correct whole wing fold cross section as an end plug - this  could then be fitted after cutting off a few millimetres off the kit part. These should look good after you do your stuff

Chris

I wasn't keen about the Wolfpack wing folds upgrade as I didn't like the idea of a solid resin wing which would be heavier than the kit wing.

 

I actually have second thoughts using the Pavla wing folds as they are looking a bit too clunky and lack fines. I therefore decided to make my own scratch build wing folds. Unfortunately this will take some time as I have currently very little time to work on my models

 

I started by adding a shim into the wing to increase the width of the wing.

The main wings are too thin compared to the original. The vertical and horizontal stabilizers on the other hand are too thick! Not much which Trumpeter got right

 

Also filled the miss aligned panel lines with a CA - talcum powder mix so that I can re-scribe them.

 

As I said, not much progress this week.

Cheers, Peter

[CJP]

I think you are right about the wing folds because by the time you thin down the edges at the break and build up the insert to fit it will probably be easier to scratch build the wing aerofoil shape - will also give you the opportunity to maybe design in a metal hydraulic push rod and the red brace or similar for strength to hold those long outer wing panels securely - anyway I'm sure you will produce a neatly engineered wing fold matching the rest of this build- I have also tried your CA/Talcum mix and am sold on it having used it a few time now

CJP

Edited August 5, 2018 by CJP
text

[CJP]

Hello Peter - I  have been hanging out for an update on your Sea Hawk - is your life letting you  get any closer to your projects on the modelling desk?

Chris