Air Cadets, 1/72 Sedbergh T21 Vacform

[stringbag]

On 4/2/2018 at 11:17 PM, Terry1954 said:

 I may loose the zig zag structure on the ailerons when I clean them up, so I wanted to position the spars so I can re-state this detail if lost,

 

Terry

Hi Terry

Have a look at the drawing before you try re-scribing the aileron structure.  It looks incorrect to me as supplied in the kit, but that may just be the picture. 

I'd hate for you to go to all that trouble only to find out that it needs amending.

 

Chris.

[Terry1954]

13 minutes ago, stringbag said:

Hi Terry

Have a look at the drawing before you try re-scribing the aileron structure.  It looks incorrect to me as supplied in the kit, but that may just be the picture. 

I'd hate for you to go to all that trouble only to find out that it needs amending.

 

Chris.

Hi Chris,

Will certainly do that!

Cheers

Terry

[Terry1954]

Back to the workbench today after a busy week out and about including some work - non modelling but income generating!

 

I did a little more work in the cockpit, mostly fettling it to fit. Also took a hard look at the plans I have to re-check some dimensions and it appears there are some further minor corrections to be made to the model. The ailerons especially don't look quite right, so I think they will need filling and re-scribing at least. Also had some slight re-shaping to do on the tailplane and rudder.

 

I have started some test dry fitting together, to get a feel for how the cockpit will eventually fit, together with the wings. Everything is taped at the moment, but it kind of starts to look like a Sedbergh at least.

 

This one shows the proposed re-scribing to be done. The main fault is at the inboard end, the tips seem to be in the right place. The upper line in the picture is the pencil line where I reckon the new scribing should be. There are some alterations also needed for the aileron ribbing as pointed out by @stringbag and clearly shown on the plans. I'm also still undecided on whether to separate the ailerons or just leave scribed ........... 

 

 

A shot from overhead, but slightly behind the wing shows some of the cockpit detail. More to be added. The wing is only roughly taped in position.

 

 

And finally an overall shot. Lots of blemishes and vac-form marks to smooth over here, but it gives a good idea of the massive wing size of this old classic.

 

 

Slow progress I know, but who knows, it may be ready for Telford where it can appear with its baby brother the T31!

 

Need to get back to the Avon Sabre now, we are on the home stretch on that one!

 

Terry

[stringbag]

Hi Terry

Those aileron hinge lines definitely need re-positioning now that we can see the wing in plan view. The hinge line should be about half way around the tip radius as can be seen.

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Chris.

[Terry1954]

1 hour ago, stringbag said:

Those aileron hinge lines definitely need re-positioning now that we can see the wing in plan view.

Hi Chris, yes I agree. This shot is helpful. I'll draw some new ones in and post. I'd like to get that right. Also interesting that you can see right through the hinge line.

 

Terry

[perdu]

That one takes me back a long way, I flew in WB926 on 16:09:62

 

Just a couple along the list from 922, Cosford I believe

 

She is looking, very 'right' Terry

Nice

[Hamden]

Looks like a T21 now - brings back memories of days in the Air Cadets

 

  Roger

[Terry1954]

Its been a while since I did anything on this. Other projects (Sabres) have had some priority, and also non modelling stuff. But today a little progress was made.

 

Firstly on the wings I started to fill in the incorrect aileron lines ready for re-scribing. I'm mostly using slaters rod and superglue as that gives me a very hard surface for better re-scribing across.

 

 

Also some work on tailplane and rudder, mostly correctly the inaccuracies in the model.

 

In this one I have done the lower surface of the rudder already, but in the subsequent shot you can see a more rounded top profile. It may need a little more refining.

 

 

Test fitting against one of the fuselage halves:

 

 

I also decided to strengthen the fuselage sides around the cockpit for two reasons. Firstly there was some damage and the plastic is extremely thin in places, and secondly, I am not happy with the kit shape in this area when compared to plans and pictures, so I plan a little reshaping work which will need the extra plastic. The strengthening comes via some 10 thou card laminate just inside each cockpit side. Fist a view of the added plastic from inside:

 

 

Then seen from the outside. In this shot you can see the damaged area on the top half in the picture. I plan to fill and re-shape the whole area around the cockpit sills.

 

 

Thats all for tonight I think.

 

Cheers

 

Terry

[Azgaron]

Very nice work so far!

 

Håkan

 

[Terry1954]

More work today in the form of the cockpit edge re-shape and some measuring to check things out on the rest of the fuselage.

 

Re-shape is progressing thus:

 

 

That received a quick coat of Mr Surfacer 1200, followed by more "green stuff". Actually the darker green stuff you can see below is Citadel's Liquid Green Stuff. It's like a runny form of Squadron Signal original Green Stuff seen above.  

 

 

In between the above steps I joined the two rear tailplanes and bonded them together with superglue. More original Green Stuff to fill the gap.

 

 

I wanted to check out the overall fuselage key measurements from the plans kindly supplied by @stringbag I found some discrepancies that were of a magnitude that will make them worth fixing:

In the picture....

0 represents the first step up in the lower fuselage from the nose backwards. It doesn't extend far enough back.

1 shows where it should extend to.

2 shows the consequent shifting of the centre point of the single under fuselage wheel.

 

 

3 shows the point from which (still moving backwards) the bottom of the fuselage should be flat. Forward of that point, the fuselage has a cross section which ends in a shallow point along the centreline. The picture below shows the profile from the front. So what I have to ensure is that by the time we get to point 3 in the picture above, the fuselage from that point backwards is flat bottomed.

 

 

Below is the full plan I am working from. Hopefully what I have described can be seen in the plan ........................... 🤔

 

 

The good news is that the overall length of the fuselage appears to be spot on, and I will only start the lower fuselage re-profiling when the two halves are together and the fuselage is all closed up. That will give me the chance to check everything again before committing! That part is a way off yet as the cockpit detailing needs to be finished and painted. 

 

Hope all that makes sense.

 

Updates on the Airfix Sabre due next.

 

Terry

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Terry 

Stirling work fella. Crikey there's a lot of work involved in the glider. 

I have been trying out cutting and sanding the vacform Tucano wing for practice although have not completed this as I have quite a few projects on the go. 

Keep up the good work. 

Chris 

 

[Biggles87]

Hi, I've only just seen this but I'll tag along if I may. There was a guy from Kenly on my instructors course, he said it really was like flying from a pocket handkerchief. I did my initial cadet course at Hawarden near Chester and ended up instructing at Burtonwood near Warrington. I went back a few years after leaving the area and they had built a motorway along the main runway, also reducing the airfield to pocket handkerchief size.

I'll now go back to the beginning and read the thread properly

 

John

Edited May 17, 2018 by Biggles87

[perdu]

Glad to see you will be making this plastic into a T21

 

You're right, what they have given you so far falls way short of that glorious form

 

Nice work

[Terry1954]

10 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

Hi, I've only just seen this but I'll tag along if I may.

Welcome John. Please do tag along but it won't be fast! There is an RFI on my MK 3 T31 here somewhere you might like.

Terry

[Terry1954]

49 minutes ago, perdu said:

Glad to see you will be making this plastic into a T21

 

You're right, what they have given you so far falls way short of that glorious form

 

Nice work

Thanks Bill. Yes, there may be struggles ahead!

 

Terry

[Terry1954]

There you go @Biggles87 hope the link works, doing this from a very dodgy phone!

 

www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235034503-air-cadets-172-kirby-cadet-mk-3/&tab=comments#comment-2966026

 

Terry

 

 

[stringbag]

14 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

Hi, I've only just seen this but I'll tag along if I may. There was a guy from Kenly on my instructors course, he said it really was like flying from a pocket handkerchief. I did my initial cadet course at Hawarden near Chester and ended up instructing at Burtonwood near Warrington. I went back a few years after leaving the area and they had built a motorway along the main runway, also reducing the airfield to pocket handkerchief size.

I'll now go back to the beginning and read the thread properly

 

John

I'll bet you remember Bill Grey then?

 

Chris

[Biggles87]

Bill Grey! What a fierce little man, he put the fear of God into us cadets, ' Don't tap that, it's a delicate instrument! '  He came to help us out at a summer camp at Burtonwood not long after I started there, and was spending most of my time driving the winch, and he treated me like a long lost friend when we met.I think he could best be described as firm but fair. 

I also remember well Pat Walton-Smith the CFI at the time , who was the exception to the rule about old pilots and bold pilots.

Sorry to hijack your thread Terry.

 

John

[Terry1954]

14 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

Sorry to hijack your thread Terry.

No problem there John! It seems this thread, and my earlier RFI on the T31 stirred up many memories from many BM's! We had a couple of "fear of god" type instructors at Kenly. It was a very good way of keeping us all alive I think 😁

 

Terry

[stringbag]

16 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

Bill Grey! What a fierce little man, he put the fear of God into us cadets, ' Don't tap that, it's a delicate instrument! '  He came to help us out at a summer camp at Burtonwood not long after I started there, and was spending most of my time driving the winch, and he treated me like a long lost friend when we met.I think he could best be described as firm but fair. 

I also remember well Pat Walton-Smith the CFI at the time , who was the exception to the rule about old pilots and bold pilots.

Sorry to hijack your thread Terry.

 

John

I thought you might remember him.  I flew with both Bill and Pat many times at Sealand when I was there in the early 70s.  Great times.

Rather than clutter up Terry's thread, I will send you a PM in the near future to see who else we both remember from 631GS.

 

Chris.

[Biggles87]

I've finished reading your T31 RFI and now read this one properly. They have both brought back lots of memories and now I'm going to have to find my ATC logbook which is packed away somewhere in the loft along with my gliding logbook.

You are doing a great job with this, unfortunately I don't have the patience for vac-forms or the dexterity for 1/72 any more.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

John

PS When I did my initial course the aircraft had yellow training bands!

[Terry1954]

On 5/19/2018 at 8:41 AM, Biggles87 said:

PS When I did my initial course the aircraft had yellow training bands!

Ah, that pre-dates mine. I did mine during the spring of 1971. You mentioned there was a guy from Kenly on your instructors course? I was taught at Kenly. Surnames of instructors I recall were Crowdy (the boss), Tarrant, Tinkler, Townsend, Kemp, Vince and Moss. Any of those familiar?

 

Terry

[Aeronut]

Following this thread makes me wonder if there are any BMers that did their cadet gliding at 612, and were any of them (un)fortunate to have me as their gliding instructor? 

As a cadet I too flew with Pat Walton-Smith at Sealand and the stories I have could fill a Flight Safety publication. 😱

[Biggles87]

Me too, I was a staff cadet when the GS moved from Hawarden to Sealand. I was lucky enough to travel there in the back of a Mk3 towed by a Chipmunk, I can't remember what year it was ( still,haven't yet found my logbooks )'but probably about 1963. 

Sorry Terry I really can't remember the name of the guy from Kenly, it was a long time ago.

 

John

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Biggles87

[Terry1954]

A little more progress this evening.

 

Firstly the wings and some measuring and marking for new aileron hinge lines. The kit aileron hinge positions were not good according to the plans I have, so the lines have been filled with some slaters rod, sanded smooth and the new positions marked top and bottom.

 

First the top:

 

 

Then bottom:

 

 

I'll re-check the position in the morning and scribe tomorrow ............ check twice scribe once!

Then I did some thinking about the under fuselage profile and also the general strength (lack of it actually) of the fuselage joins.

You will remember my last posting showed this comedy of errors:

 

 

Given also that when taped together, the width of two halves come out just fractionally too narrow side to side, I decided to build in a "keel along the bottom which will form the modified lower fuselage to correct the above, but also took the principal further to enable a stronger join where the two inside fuselage halves met. The lower large "keel piece will be profiled to ensure the lower fuselage has the correct pointed base part way along. All the other parts will be trimmed back down when fuselage halves come together, although I will make a few "sighting cuts" to ensure alignment when I actually join them. Hope that makes sense?

 

So externally we have this:

 

 

and internally, it all looks like this:

 

 

I only needed to do this on one fuselage side.

 

I'll need to put some thought to how the lower fuselage re-profiling will be "plated in", but thats for another day methinks.

 

This one feels more like scratch building than anything else I've done so far!

 

Thanks

 

Terry