71chally Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) During the 1950s Blackburn Aircraft wanted to venture into the world of light gas turbines to replace their line of small piston engines. They struck a licencing deal with Turbomeca of France to Produce and develop the Palas light turbojet. Three versions of the basic Palas followed, one which could bleed off the excess air to be used for hot gas tip propulsion or air start, the Palouste one with an extra turbine stage, reduction gearbox and generator, as an onboard Auxilary Power Unit, the Artouste and one with a rear gearbox and drive, the Turmo, a coupled version of this was also produced. Blackburn engines were later subsumed by Bristol-Siddeley, which in turn was taken over by Rolls Royce. Blackburn produced an air start pod using the Palouste engine, this used air bleed from the turbine assembly which could then be fed through a hose to start aircraft gas turbine engines. The Royal Navy was an obvious candidate for the pod as it could be carried on the hardpoint of an aircraft, allowing the starter pod to be deployed with an aircraft or squadron if they hand to land away from base or the parent carrier. The compact shape of the pod also made it ideal for carrier deck use. Palouste pods evolved and changed slightly during their production life, the earlier ones look more bulbous and had twin nose wheels, and what looks to be a fully retractable undercarriage. The later pods seem to vary a little as well, some have a proper inlet door (see the Gannet pic) some have the pylon shoe integral with the pod (like the one below), while some don't. Some also gained a top hamper, i'm guessing for easier hose stowage (see the Sea Vixen pic) The nose wheel unfastens using pip pins, and I think the mainwheels must unfasten and then they are put in the rear hose stowage compartment. I would say that the wheels/track is no wider than the body, so say 2ft. From front to back you have the fuel tank, controls/instrument panel and battery bay, engine inlets and starter section (including back-up hand crank handle!), the Palouste engine, exhaust, and then the hose stowage bay. The pod is often pictured with the whole aft section removed for running. I'm not sure why the tail section is shaped like it is, but I wonder if the hose to aircraft coupling fits in there or something Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod dims by James Thomas, on Flickr A: Overall length 12' 9 1/4" (153 1/4") 389.25mm B: Maximum width 24" 60.96mm C: Nose to leading edge of pylon shoe 35" 88.9mm D: Length of pylon shoe at pod body top 64 1/2" 163.83mm E: Nose to undercarriage mid point 72" 182.88mm F: Pod aft edge to end of tail part 3 1/4" 8.25mm G: Aft edge to jet pipe door aft edge 13 1/4" 33.65mm H: Aft edge to jet pipe door fwd edge 60" 152.4mm C1: Widest circumference 80" 203.2mm C2: Aft edge of pod circumference 46" 116.84mm C3: Tail part to pod constant circumference 37" 93.98mm Wheel track 24" approx 60.96mm Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Exhaust and hose stowage door open Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Controls/instrument panel and engine inlet doors open Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by JamesThomas,on Flickr Controls/instrument panel Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Connection for the starter air hose to the starting aircraft Blackburn Palouste Air Starter Airborne Pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Fuel cap Many thanks to John at Horizon for allowing me access to this pod. Edited March 30, 2018 by 71chally 8 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Thank You for the pics. Dunno why the RAF didn't use the podded version. I was on exercise at Honington once (about 81) and had to go across the airfield to a Robin hanger to retrieve some GSE. Among the stored Houchins (old, petrol 25 Kva's [ we used the diesel variety normally] were racks of Paloustes, complete with hampers. Maybe there was a plan for the FAA to return one day? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Ossington said: Thank You for the pics. Dunno why the RAF didn't use the podded version. I was on exercise at Honington once (about 81) and had to go across the airfield to a Robin hanger to retrieve some GSE. Among the stored Houchins (old, petrol 25 Kva's [ we used the diesel variety normally] were racks of Paloustes, complete with hampers. Maybe there was a plan for the FAA to return one day? There was also a towed air starter (by landrover) box shaped version used by the RAF that I have used. This was around 1979. it was green with a yellow band/RAF markings and had a fold out exhaust panel. http://www.gasturbineworld.co.uk/lpstartermk12.html Selwyn Edited March 12, 2018 by Selwyn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koala Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I seem to recall these paloustes were only ever used by the Navy , this was certainly the case at Honington namely 809 Sqn and the RN contingent of 237 OCU, the tail fairing was not fitted and a tubular towbar fitted to the front wheel. It is fair to say the ones in storage were probably war reserve, I never saw one fitted to an RAF Buccaneer. The name Palouste became a generic term for gas turbine air starters. Koala 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 James have you asked Julian if we can have this in the official walkaround section, in here there is a risk/ certainty of losing them in the passage of time It would be nice to get further stuff on the other, earlier ones too I feel projects a brewing... Lovely pictures 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Thanks for the info...Hadn't known any of that. What a great system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJP Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Congratulations 71Chally on creating this reference post on the Palouste starter pods - it is going to be a very useful reference and I look forward to seeing models of these pop up alongside FAA models CJP 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 WOW WOW WOW!!!! This is what I calla reference!!! You did really great James!!! Absolutely superb stuff!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 18 hours ago, Ossington said: Dunno why the RAF didn't use the podded version. I was on exercise at Honington once (about 81) and had to go across the airfield to a Robin hanger to retrieve some GSE. Among the stored Houchins (old, petrol 25 Kva's [ we used the diesel variety normally] were racks of Paloustes, complete with hampers. Maybe there was a plan for the FAA to return one day? When the FAA Buccaneers were based at Honington they would have the Palouste Pods on the flightline, I wonder if they were looked at with envy by the RAF line with their Palouste trolleys. I'm guessing you saw the pods in storage. Thanks for the feedback everyone, if you feel you can add to it then please do, in particular I'm struggling to find pictures of the fast jets with a Palouste hung off a pylon. And I would like to cover the earlier pods. One thing I have just remembered is that CMK included the Palouste pod in at least one of their excellent resin Scimitar kits. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebra Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Fascinating, thanks for sharing. We had a Palouste in a lab at uni, it was instrumented so students could take measurements of temperature and pressure at various points. Didn’t know about the podded version before though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koala Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 In reply to your question 71chally the pod was not looked upon with envy by the RAF lineys ,when it wet started there was a jet of flame coming out of the jet pipe at kneecap height, so positioning it where it would not set light to things would be important.The only advantage it had was that you could manhandle the thing easier.The RAF Paloustes exhausts pointed upwards just dont park them under the wings, also most of HAS's had soot marks on the ceiling directly above where they were sited. Another reason they were phased out, the S2B Buccaneer only had one internal emergency battery instead of two in the navy version, meaning that an external power supply was needed for engine starting. As to using one mounted on an aircraft .When the engines had been fired up stowing the hose in the rear compartment right by the jet pipe whether it was running or just shut down would have been a very unpleasant task. To bring things up to date the Air Start Trolley currently being used ,is a four wheeled box weighing seven and a half tons powered by a massive American diesel engine that takes two people to lift the towbar. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 As an aside, another thing of interest on these images are that the paluste is fitted with the Standard British central single point suspension "Lollipop" style bomb lug used on British military aircraft of the 1950's-60's such as Sea Vixen, Javelin, Hunter, and Buccaneer (which i believe was the last in service aircraft to use this system) The Ejector release unit was inside the pylon and closed around the ball of the "Lollipop" when loading. The store was wound up tight against the bottom of the pylon and swaybracing was done by the curved pylon baseplate (no seperate swaybraces). If you look at the images there can be seen two spigots on the store fore and aft that engaged with holes in the pylon baseplate when loaded to stop the store "spinning around" in flight on the pylon. The British then moved to Bail type lugs on military aircraft after 1964 when they adopted the NATO standard twin suspension system. Selwyn 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 What an amazing thread. I'd never really paid attention to such a key piece of kit untill seeing this stuff on the other threads in recent days. Might have to make one myself one day when my Gannet's materialise along with other FAA types. Thanks for this! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) I seem to recall a Palouste being used to start the Gnat, although I could well be very wrong about that. My only experience with a Palouste was over 30 years ago during the final airfields phase of trade training at Cosford, the wizened old Chief brought one out to demonstrate to us neophyte techies, he started it up and it proceeded to grumble, rattle and then spit its guts out across the grass with a loud bang (fortunately nobody got hit by the debris). I was left with the feeling that starting an aircraft with something that produced ballistic debris couldn't end happily. Great thread and reference James, thanks for sharing! Edited March 14, 2018 by Wez 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) Wez, the Gnat display team use a Palouste pod, so wouldn't doubt what you are saying http://gnatdisplayteam.org/wp-content/gallery/gdt-aircraft/IMG_5547.jpg The US Navy also used a similar starting pod, as seen starting this RA-3B Skywarrior RA-3B Skywarrior starter pod by James Thomas, on Flickr Some great info on it in Tommys' Tailhook Topics blog http://thanlont.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/portable-air-start-cart.html F4Models make a kit of the US Navy type, maybe they will cover the Palouste one day! http://f4models.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/us-navy-air-transportable-aircraft.html Edited March 14, 2018 by 71chally 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 here's an early one in the photo and more can be seen in the video (unashamedly posted to show that we did once have a decent Fleet Air Arm) http://militaryaviationreview.com/video-fleet-air-arm-display-1964 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Fair does Scim, we can't even boast we have a decent Air Force either yet Damn those swine that voted in the Bliar Age But 'nuff of damned politics, it has wrecked far too much of our futures, I need to get into my spare missile/tanks and armaments assorted box looking for Paloustable bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Seeing as this is the topic of the hour, John 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 That picture of the Gnat starting with a podded Palouste is the first time I've seen the pod kind connected to an RAF aircraft. During my time at Valley, the Gnats used only the trailer type, as did the Arrows AFAIK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Brilliant info again John! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick4350 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Does anyone make a model of it ! Like one in 1/72. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) The only ones available that I know of is in one of the CMR Supermarine Scimitar (CMR-224) boxings and the Alleycat Gannet AEW.3. I'm hoping an aftermarket manufacturer will get inspired to do one! Edited March 20, 2018 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Excellent survey James. Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I can't match the anecdotes of you groundcrew who actually used a Palouste - but the Russians went one better and trialled a pod to transport GROUNDCREW on deployment... It was designed to fit under the wing of a Su-25 - note the hinged door and the small window to keep the occupant amused. I don't have any idea what the Soviet groundcrew thought of the idea - but it was never deployed. Ken 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I could tell you what my response would have been but this site has rules about swearing and profanity 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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