Supermodel/Italeri aircraft

[Bob C.]

To Giorgio N, et al,

Do your comments regarding the Italeri Re 2000 being an updated copy, with inaccuracies, of the Supermodel kit also apply to the Italeri Mc 205?  If so, would it be better to try to find another Hasegawa (1/72) Mc 202 to go with a MisterKit Mc 205 conversion kit I got many years ago?

Also, I don't seem to be able to reply to/add to several WWII threads.  Is something going on, or have I done something naughty, and didn't realize it?

 

Thanks,

Bob C 

 

[JWM]

I remember Supermodel model of MC 205 and it was not so fine in details as Italeri is, though it has rubber tyres for instance. To my best knowledge there are separate moulds. This is what you can find also in Scalemates web page. Italeri kit is much nicer and the detailing is similar to Hasegawa MC 202 IMHO.

Regards

J-W

 

 

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello, Bob C

Jerzy-Wojtek is correct, Italeri Folgore and Veltro kits are not based on the old Supermodel. There is still room for improvement for both kits, particularly in undercarriage area. Still, indulging in a bit of a scratch building or purchasing an AM replacement wheel well are much better options than a conversion of the Hasegawa C.202 kit. Cheers

Jure

[MDriskill]

I am wresting with 1/72 Macchis at the moment, and can confirm that the old Supermodel molds of the C.202 and C.205 are very different from the modern Italeri ones.

 

While having some daring features for their day (rubber tires, dry-transfer markings), the old kits are thickly molded, and manifestly inaccurate. They include some interesting options, though: a pair of rarely-used drop tanks; and a nose-mounted radiator, and underwing cannon gondolas, for a couple of 202 prototypes. It’s worth obtaining a cheap example if those things interest you, but otherwise I find the old kits forgettable.

 

The modern Italeri 202 is vastly better but still odd. It mimics the Hasegawa kit VERY closely in overall outline, but the parts breakdown is different. Fit is problematic compared to the older Japanese effort, and some details are not nearly so good, such as the already-mentioned heavy-handed landing gear doors, very thick ribbing on fabric surfaces, and weak raised panel lines in a couple places. On the other hand, it does have some detail in the the cockpit and wheel wells (the Hasegawa kit is bare), offers some optional parts like early and late-style tailplanes, and is molded in soft plastic that eases addressing some of the issues.

 

The Italeri C.205 is basically the same kit as their C.202, with the differing parts all on a separate section of one sprue. For all practical purposes it is the only current option for this aircraft in 1/72, though if you were ambitious enough (I am not!), no doubt the Italeri 205 bits could be grafted onto a Hasegawa 202.

 

A quick google will show that very nice models indeed can be coaxed from either brand of kit, it just takes more effort than you might think to get there. IMHO the market could stand a better 1/72 effort on these beautiful and historically significant warplanes; thanks to some of the smaller manufacturers, you can get better kits of some much more obscure Italian wartime machines these days.

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by MDriskill

[Giorgio N]

Bob,

as JZ and Jure said the Italeri kit has nothing in common with the old Supermodel one, fortunately I'd say as the Supermodel kit has many accuacy issues. It is however somewhat "inspired" by the Hasegawa kit, so much that aligning the fuselage halves of both kits they fit perfectly...

Unfortunately this means that the Italeri kit shares the shape errors of the Hase fuselage, in particular a lack in length and a wrong shape of the area behind the cockpit.

Comparing the two kits, Italeri offers more detail in the cockpit and something in the wheel wells. As the wheel wells of these aircrafts are very complicated, the Italeri solution is of course very basic but at least they tried while Hasegawa offers nothing here.

Mould quality is however very much in favour of the Japanese kit, with sharp surface detail and excellent fit. The Italeri kit is nothing like it...

Now if you have a Misterkit conversion you have some options available depending on your goal.

1) Find a Hasegawa 202 and use the conversion: finding the Hase kit may not be the easiest thing, they are hard to find in Italy but I don't know what the situation is like in the US. If you find one, you'll have a good starting point as this is a nicely moulded kit. The Misterkit conversion included a fuselage with the correct shape of the "hump" behind the cockpit, much nicer than the Hase kit. The length is the same though, you can either modify or live with it. The Misterkit conversion will give you all the other details needed for the  cockpit, wheel wells and a few other bits (the wheels in particular deserve replacing). You'll still be left with some work to do on the wings but nothing too serious. This is the option I'd take if I wanted the best possible 1/72 Mc.205

2) Build the Italeri kit as it is, the kit is not as nice as Hasegawa's in terms of fit but you'll get a 205 OOB, maybe not too correct but nobody will mistake this for any other aircraft. You may want to add some detail in the cockpit (Eduard has a cheap Zoom set) but since Italeri already gives something and the cocpkit aperture really is small, you may simply get a decent result with some good painting. You may want to add details in the wheel wells if you are so inclined of course. This is the option I'd choose if I wanted a quick build without having to work hard

3) Add the Misterkit conversion to the Italeri kit: this would require some work to combine the Italeri and Misterkit fuselage, I've not checked what but I'm sure it can be done as the Italeri and Hasegawa fuselages are very similar. The final result will give you a more correct fuselage and of course you can then add all the details. This it the option I'd take if I couldn't find a Hasegawa 202 but still wanted a very good Mc.205 model.

Alternatively you could simply use the Misterkit resin and PE details on the Italeri kit, this will leave you with a less accurate fuselage but would still result in a well detailed kit

[Mitch K]

I've built a few Italeri 205's. They look nice and give a good end result. They suffer from the Italeri "over-engineering" syndrome, and the fit in places is not at all good.

[Bob C.]

Thank you all very much.  I think collectively you have answered all the questions I needed answered.  

I think I will begin the hunt for another Has 202 (the one I have to be used, of course, for a 202).  Until I looked last night, I hadn't remembered that the Misterkit conv had an entire fuselage replacement, so I think that is the direction I will take.  I hadn't planned to work on these any time soon, but thought I might as well get in on the Supermodel/Italeri discussion when it was going on.  Then, as I said, I found I couldn't actually add on to the Re 2000 discussion.

Giorgio, could you explain the "nothing too serious" work for the Hasegawa wing?  Something just needed to adapt to the MisterKit conversion, or something on the order of 202 vs. 205?  

Thanks again everyone!

Bob C      

[Giorgio N]

Bob, the conversion work needed on the wing is simply because the 202 and 205 had different armament and therefore different access panels. Actually things are not so clear-cut here as the wing armament of both types developed over time, with the first 202s having no wing guns and later series being given the provision for wing mounted MGs (not always installed for a number of reasons). Early 205s had the same wing mounted MGs but later (with the Series III) these were replaced by 20mm cannons, with the addition of small bulges behind the spent case ejection ports. The Misterkit set includes the cannon barrel and fairings but for some reason these are not shown in the instructions.

The Hasegawa Folgore wings have the panel lines for the MG equipped aircrafts however don't have any ejection port on the bottom. Regardless of the 205 you chose you will have to add these.All the small access panels on the wing top are missing from the kit, you may want to rescibe them... or ignore them. These are not rectangular but have rounded corners. Best way to locate them is to get hold of a copy of the Ali d'Italia drawings.

 

Edit: I'll get back with some info on the Italeri wing in case anyone want to use this kit. I can't remember what the wings are like in this kit

Edited March 12, 2018 by Giorgio N