IPMS19 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Somebody knows the code name of the Su-57 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 If it has one it’s not yet public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Would it be a code if it was public anyway! I guess saying T-50, Su-57 or a code name is equally complicated.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMK Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Wouldn’t it be a NATO calling name starting with “F”? Any nominations? Firecracker? Flenser? Fishhook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, GMK said: Wouldn’t it be a NATO calling name starting with “F”? Any nominations? Firecracker? Flenser? Fishhook? Faker? Fragment? Flotsam? Floater? Flagstone? Fritter? Frypan? Fishbait? Foghorn? Fogbow? Fogbank? I've got more, but I think I'll stop here. Edited July 4, 2018 by VMA131Marine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, GMK said: Wouldn’t it be a NATO calling name starting with “F”? Any nominations? Firecracker? Flenser? Fishhook? Maybe they in NATO can not decide what is better Sukhoi Su-57 "Ftalin-A*" or Sukhoi Su-57 "Futin-A*"?! B.R. Serge ____________ *-If suddenly they really call, Sukhoi Su-57 "Ftalin-A" or Sukhoi Su-57 "Futin-A"! , I hope the community Britmodeller will help to defend my copyrights on this code name? Royalties from copyright divide 50 to 50 if that! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) Can I just point out that it isn't 'NATO' and it isn't a 'Code Name' at all....... It is an ASCC or ASIG or ASIC - (they keep changing names) REPORTING NAME - designed to quickly identify a hostile aircraft over the radio/coms system. It can't be NATO - 'cos Australia and New Zealand are represented. Ken Edited July 4, 2018 by Flankerman 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 7/4/2018 at 12:49 AM, GMK said: Wouldn’t it be a NATO calling name starting with “F”? Any nominations? F-35 Eater? 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMK Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 7/4/2018 at 5:19 PM, Flankerman said: Can I just point out that it isn't 'NATO' and it isn't a 'Code Name' at all....... It is an ASCC or ASIG or ASIC - (they keep changing names) REPORTING NAME - designed to quickly identify a hostile aircraft over the radio/coms system. It can't be NATO - 'cos Australia and New Zealand are represented. Ken Roger that on the NATO stuff...though both Australia & NZ use STANAGS and comply with QSTAGS regularly to maximise NATO interoperability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: F-35 Eater? I'll cheerfully eat every F-35 that great white elephant kills. The Indians have already dropped it like a hot potato, which was a huge blow to Russian hopes for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 6:19 AM, Procopius said: The Indians have already dropped it like a hot potato, which was a huge blow to Russian hopes for it. Yeppp...."Indian's Competition"(TM): - Indian MRCA competition - I from 28.VIII.2007 to 31.I.2012: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_MRCA_competition .....and winner is? ....winner is Indian MRCA competition - II from 06.IV.2018 to ....... ???? But how about Rafale who won Indian MRCA competition - I ???? - "Indian competition by air refuelling aircrat- I"....."Indian competition by air refuelling aircrat- II".....now after seven years Indian competition by air refuelling aircrat.. ..next "Indian competition by air refuelling aircrat-III"!!!!! But how about Airbus А330МRTТ who won Indian competition by air refuelling aircrat - I & II ???? Nothing is finished!!! - Indian competition by program MPATGM from 2009 to 2017. Winner is Spike anti-tank missile, but Indian Defense Minister decided not to sign an agreed contract with the Israelis for $ 0.5 billion to purchase anti-tank missiles "Spike" MR for the MPATGM program. Instead, the Indians expect to receive a rocket of their own design from DRDO, as "they already have successful experience in the development of ATGM Nag and Anamiq, and will be able to successfully develop an ATGM of the third generation" (supposedly received encouraging results). The contest has been going on since 2009, and from it the US "Javline" was successfully brought out for refusing to share technology. e.t.c, e.t.c... "Indian's Competition"(TM) such "Indian's Competition"(TM)!!! Maybe the problem is in the Indians and not in the Su-57 ??? B.R. Serge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Aardvark said: Maybe the problem is in the Indians and not in the Su-57 ??? Indian defense procurement is undoubtedly a huge mess, but the Su-57 was to be the next-generation fighter for their air force, one of the cornerstones of its future. Now they've decided to abandon it, in the face of Pakistan working with China on their own 5th Generation aircraft. This is likely because of serious issues with the Su-57, including powerplant reliability problems and a lack of stealthiness. But the big loser here is Russia, who needed India's money; they had to cut the defense budget by 20% because of their continuing recession and western sanctions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Having followed the saga of the Arjun project in India, I suspect their current intransigence will be a relief to the Russians.....They get to design the fighter they want, then to sell it to the Indians, just like they did with T-90. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjun_(tank) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: Having followed the saga of the Arjun project in India, I suspect their current intransigence will be a relief to the Russians.....They get to design the fighter they want, then to sell it to the Indians, just like they did with T-90. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjun_(tank) Perhaps so, and I'd be a fool to rule out a later purchase of the Su-57 by the IAF, given their byzantine defense purchasing processes (right now the F-35 is in the running, but I can't see the US giving India what they'd want in terms of local production and technology sharing), but the fact remains that the Russians were hoping for Indian money to fund the continuing development of the aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 But with Indian money comes Indian bureaucracy. BTW - India didn't get a full-fat T-90, they got a watered down export version, the T-90S.....Same will probably happen with the Su.57 IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 9 hours ago, Procopius said: This is likely because of serious issues with the Su-57, including powerplant reliability problems and a lack of stealthiness. Very interesting sources about "serious issues" based on serious rumor sources. But official Indian sources refute these rumors. http://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/5274547 9 hours ago, Procopius said: they had to cut the defense budget by 20% because of their continuing recession and western sanctions. This is very interesting, you give a link to the resource. But what is this resource? This resource is funded by the US Department of State. Do you seriously want to convince me that this resource will be objective and impartial? In addition, since I spent some time working for some western companies in the field of financial analytics, I perfectly imagine the general level of their financial analysis, The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., Arthur Andersen LLP, Commerzbank AG e.t.c, e.t.c is helping you if that. B.R. Serge P.S. B.w. if all these analysts and economists are so well-versed in the Russian budget, then let them show me the items of expenditure from which the maintenance of my city and its armed forces is financed! ;) :) From the Internet there are many statements that we are funded by Russians, but for some reason none of these specialists has shown specific items of expenditure in the Russian budget for which this funding is being spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 https://thediplomat.com/2018/07/russia-will-not-mass-produce-5th-generation-stealth-fighter-jet/ 🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Have to say the Su.57 is starting to look like a T-72B3M with wings.....Great for show, not really for actual fighting. If only we'd done the same with the F-35, eh? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) It's so good they don't need to build it. Quote Russia announced earlier this month that the Su-57, its proposed entry into the world of fifth-generation stealth-fighter aircraft, would not see mass production. "The plane has proven to be very good, including in Syria, where it confirmed its performance and combat capabilities," Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Russian TV on July 2, as reported by The Diplomat. But despite Russia's nonstop praise for the plane and dubious claims about its abilities, Borisov said, per The Diplomat: "The Su-57 is considered to be one of the best aircrafts produced in the world. Consequently, it does not make sense to speed up work on mass-producing the fifth-generation aircraft." Justin Bronk, a combat-aviation expert at the Royal United Services Institute, told Business Insider that Borisov's comments "could be charitably described as an unreasonably optimistic reason why they stopped production." Basically, Borisov said the plane is so much better than everything out there that Russia doesn't need to build it — a claim Bronk finds unlikely. Instead, Russia will stick to what it's good at, with upgraded fourth-generation aircraft in service instead of the Su-57, which was originally meant to replace the older fighters. The Su-57, a plane designed to function as a killer of US F-35 and F-22 stealth jets with an innovative array of radars, saw a brief period of combat over Syria, but the deployment lasted only days and didn't pit the jet against any threats befitting a world-class fighter. Initially proposed as a joint project with India, the Su-57 hit trouble when neither side could agree on how to split the production and technological development. After 11 years in the program, India withdrew, leaving Russia to go it alone with a weak economy. Now, India has been discussed as a potential buyer of the F-35 in another blow to Russia's dream of developing its own fifth-gen fighter. The Su-57 was never really 5th-generation — and never really stealth. A senior stealth scientist recently told Business Insider that though the jet claimed a stealthy profile, it had glaring and obvious flaws. A 2016 report from IHS Jane's said the jet was fifth-generation "in name only." But the Su-57 carries a massive payload and was expected to one day carry nuclear weapons. Like the Su-35 before it, had super maneuverability beyond that of any US jet. By all means, the Su-57 appeared a next-level dogfighting jet capable of taking out the US's best fighters in close combat, but its failure to integrate stealth made getting in close with an F-35 or F-22 an unlikely bet. Bronk said Russia must have looked at the program and realized that it didn't have the potential — even with upgrades and maturation — to ever work out to be worth the price. At about $40 million a unit, Russia's Su-57 is less than half the price of an F-35, but considerably more expensive than its other jets. "Russia is more or less admitting defeat in building a feasible fifth-generation fighter," Bronk said. For that price, according to Bronk, Russia can just put the fancy radars and missiles on its older planes in greater numbers, as the Su-57's airframe was never really stealth in the first place. Russia is working on new tanks, submarines, and nuclear weapons, all of which tax its already large defense budget. With other projects going forward, it appears the Su-57 has become the first casualty of a budget crunch. As the US's F-35 starts to come online in significant numbers and China's J-20 stealth jet deploys in earnest, it looks as if Russia is getting left behind in the world of top-class militaries. Edited July 13, 2018 by Murph 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) What this basically means is that the Russians get to keep the money they would have wasted on the Su-57, to spend it on more worthwhile projects, whilst the U.S. is continuing to bleed money out of all orifices trying to make the F-35 into at least a minimally reliable and effective combat aircraft. Of course the U.S. is selling it to other countries, such as the UK, but how much of that is of the 'making an offer they can't refuse' is hard to tell. And with the current American administration, such efforts may not now be so successful, as the U.S. becomes a less that reliable ally. Regards, Jason Edited July 13, 2018 by Learstang Additional comments added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 52 minutes ago, Learstang said: What this basically means is that the Russians get to keep the money they would have wasted on the Su-57, to spend it on more worthwhile projects, whilst the U.S. is continuing to bleed money out of all orifices trying to make the F-35 into at least a minimally reliable and effective combat aircraft. Russia's defense budget is about US$70 billion. The US DoD spends well over US$700 billion per year. The US has the resources to counter whatever ever Russia does and I wouldn't write off the F-35 as a failure just yet. There are over 305 F-35's built, distributed among A's, B's, and C's. That's already 50% more than the entire F-22 production run. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 51 minutes ago, Learstang said: What this basically means is that the Russians get to keep the money they would have wasted on the Su-57, to spend it on more worthwhile projects, whilst the U.S. is continuing to bleed money out of all orifices trying to make the F-35 into at least a minimally reliable and effective combat aircraft. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 So does that make you: Because it's kind of sounding that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 So, Su-57 fared hardly any better than Su-47. Pity, Su-57 kit with few Syria mission markings would make an interesting model. It seems that time (and with time I mean price tag) is just not right for pure fighter aircraft. Did early 1930's make their comeback and due to economic necessity air forces are going to purchase modern equivalents of airliner/transport/bomber hybrids like Bombay, Ju 52, S.81 and similar? Or are we back over Western Front, where fighters got all the glory, but single engined two seaters were the most important type of military aircraft by far? I agree with Jason in his assessment that Russian decided level of stealth technology today offers too little and costs too much. They rely for their safety on strategic nuclear deterrence anyway so they are probably going to keep their Su-27/-35 ... and MiG-31s as their main air defence aircraft for another decade or so. I do not think they can afford to drop stealth research altogether, though. However, another costly cold war is out of the question as it would only benefit rising superpowers like India and China. I suspect such reasoning is absent in the USA and in the rest of so called western world. Just my thoughts. Cheers Jure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now