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Hamsterman

RAF Mitchell FR209 post-war markings

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One may find another photo of FR209 in the photographs section under Malta 1949.

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Easy answer - it isn't a training B-25 because the RAF didn't have any, apart from using the standard bomber in OTUs.  It's an experimental left-over, being used as an "executive" transport or general hack.  I doubt that it had any modifications - any additional seats in the rear fuselage would have required non-existent windows.  It is possible that there could be a couple of extra seats in place of the navigator's position behind the pilots, but I wouldn't bet on it..

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I hope this isn't going to send the discussion off at a tangent. There's photos of another RAF Mitchell with a US serial 43-27774 and described as a VB-25J on Air Britain ABPic. This looks like it might have curtains on the waist windows. One shot looks like it has a 2 star pennant above the fin flash and the caption says used by the RAF Mediterranean/Middle East Communications Squadron

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Posted (edited)

I have some pics in my collection of FR209 later in its career wearing post war D Type roundels too,...... taken in the early 1950`s,... similar to these;

Image result for mitchell fr209

Image result for mitchell fr209

Image result for mitchell fr209

Note the underwing serials and roundels and the fact that this photo is transposed!!!

 

There were at least a handful of VIP Mitchell`s in RAF service including at least 2 x Mk.III`s (B-25J);

 

 

...And Harry Broadhurst or Tedder used a blunt nosed USAAF B-25G/H in the Middle East,....bearing a RAF rank pennant on the nose.

 I`m not sure which blunt nosed variant it was without double checking.

 

Cheers

         Tony

Edited by Julien
Please DONT use airliners.net pictures

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5 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Easy answer - it isn't a training B-25 because the RAF didn't have any, apart from using the standard bomber in OTUs.  It's an experimental left-over, being used as an "executive" transport or general hack.  I doubt that it had any modifications - any additional seats in the rear fuselage would have required non-existent windows.  It is possible that there could be a couple of extra seats in place of the navigator's position behind the pilots, but I wouldn't bet on it..

Didn't know that.  I recall coming across a photo of a lineup of planes from the Empire Centeal Flying School and there was a B-25.  Guess I assumed the RAF also used B-25s in a training role.  Maybe that photo was during the war.  Post war it would make sense that the RAF didn't use 25s the same way the USAF did.  (My knowledge of the RAF is limited and my knowledge of post war RAF is virtually non-existent....can you tell?). Thanks.

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The RAF didn't have anywhere near enough B-25s after the end of the war, as the US wanted all Lease-Lend aircraft back.  Presumably this was just too non-standard to bother with.  The closest equivalent to the TB-25 would probably be the Wellington T Mk.10.

 

Postwar serials were carried under both wings but facing in opposite directions.

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2 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

The RAF didn't have anywhere near enough B-25s after the end of the war, as the US wanted all Lease-Lend aircraft back.  Presumably this was just too non-standard to bother with.  The closest equivalent to the TB-25 would probably be the Wellington T Mk.10.

 

Postwar serials were carried under both wings but facing in opposite directions.

Thanks!

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16 hours ago, Hamsterman said:

Thanks for all your help and dang, you're all so polite!  Yes indeed, I had intended on using the new Airfix kit which should provide all the necessary pieces.  Million dollar follow up question....what did the RAF do to the interiors of their training B-25s?  Anyone know?  I know the USAF install a number of seats in their advanced flight trainers.  Not so sure about instrument trainers.  

 

Oh, and one small caution about using H/J model waist windows for a late model D.  IIRC, the contour at the top and bottom of the H/J window was slightly different than that on the Fairfax waist windows used in the late D models.  Doubt many people would notice, and not saying you shouldn't do it.  More just an FYI.

 

Cheers!

You are on the money regarding the difference in the waist blisters between the C/D and the H/J Mitchells. We had a lot of discussion and photos on them in another forum topic related to a build Michael Enright was asking about. You can look that one up.

 

Graham- I was not discounting your post, as I thought I knew what you were referring to, so no explanation necessary. You're still aces in my modeling book!

Mike

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On 3/10/2018 at 9:53 AM, Graham Boak said:

Postwar serials were carried under both wings but facing in opposite directions.

Was this for both combat and no combat aircraft within the RAF?  Just want to find a clear example to see if the serial numbers featured a more rounded font or one with hard edges, similar to a block or stencil font.

Thanks!

 

 

 

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All RAF aircraft were required to display under wing serial numbers after the end of the war in order to discourage unauthorised low flying.  The serials were required to read inwards from the wing tips so that at least one could be read from either ahead of or behind the aircraft.  Although standard styles were specified in the relevant AMOs application tended to vary between units, for example some Lancaster units used the “square” style and some the later “rounded” style.  Materials were in short supply and the country was nearly bankrupt after six years of total war so units used what was available wherever possible, e.g. standard stencils, unless they’d received whatever limited supplies of new materials were available.  Usual rule: find a photo, if possible, of your chosen subject or at least an example from the same unit at about the same time.

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Gents please refrain from imbedding Airliners.net images in posts. By all means link to them but dont embed them as they dont like thisd and it is against site rules.

 

Julien

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On 3/8/2018 at 6:40 AM, Paul J said:

I'm inclined to agree the radome belonging to the Lanc. Interesting to note the D type roundels and fin flash, small astrodome behind the cockpit. Doubt it replaced a turret as the airframe is of an earlier B-25 when the turret was much further aft.

Sorry, I can't agree. That radome appears to be much too small to be a Lancaster H2S dome.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Don McIntyre said:

Sorry, I can't agree. That radome appears to be much too small to be a Lancaster H2S dome.

It's definitely fitted to the Lancaster in the background, there are two more images taken at the same time but slightly different angles where it is clear.

Edited by 71chally

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Posted (edited)
On 10/03/2018 at 12:45 PM, tonyot said:

I have some pics in my collection of FR209 later in its career wearing post war D Type roundels too,...... taken in the early 1950`s,... similar to these;

Image result for mitchell fr209

Image result for mitchell fr209

Image result for mitchell fr209

 

 

...And Harry Broadhurst or Tedder used a blunt nosed USAAF B-25G/H in the Middle East,....bearing a RAF rank pennant on the nose.

 I`m not sure which blunt nosed variant it was without double checking.

 

Cheers

         Tony

 

It was originally Tedder, and it was a late G, it had the waist Windows (I beleive it used parts from other aircraft as well). I have a copy of it’s USAAF record card which has it transferred to the RAF, but it never received an RAF serial. I have a photo of it at Sharjah post war

Edited by Dave Fleming

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Can't add an awful lot to this thread except that I just read in Aeroplane Aug '87 that it was in the static park at Farnborough in 1950. It is said to be the last RAF Mitchell and is a B.2 (?). Used by the Empire Flying School, Hullavington for radio aids testing hence the extra antennae.

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