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antonio argudo

1/32 Revell P51 Converting the "D" into a "B" model

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Posted (edited)

Hi Gents,

I just bought the new Revell tool Mustang, I had in mind to tranform it into a B model because it is cheaper and safer than trying this with a Tamiya kit,  when I opened the kit box and checked the model, I realised the transparent sprue was missing, it didn't bother me much since I was not going to use it anyway but wanted to see for myself how bad the deformation in the canopy/windshield was in these parts.

I have the Trumpeter model from which I will try to use what it is useful but I guess not much giving the lack of accurateness in the model, will see if any of the transparent  will fit, but I doubt it, probably I will have to do them from scratch and do some vacuforming canopy also...

This is going to be a slow and not easy in progres topic.

I am gathering info about the main differences between D and B, I would be happy and  pleased  for anyone to contribute with your knowledge.

stay tune for more

cheers

Edited by antonio argudo

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Posted (edited)

It sounds like a great project, Antonio - very ambitious! I wonder how far you want to go with making it absolutely correct? Beyond having to reproduce the high back upper section of fuselage, the other major area featuring significant differences between the B and D is in the shape and layout of the wheel wells (including the inner landing gear clam shell doors). The inboard wing leading edges also don't angle out anywhere near as much as they do on the D. The middle-aft lower engine cowlings and wing-to-fuselage fairings/fillets are different between the B and the D as well. Elsewhere on the wings, the rear gun bay doors have a distinct shape on the P-51B/C, and the B/C wing of course has the early position fixed landing light in the wing leading edge and the position and number of wingtip nav lights is different (not to mention of course the different gun ports). The pitot tube was also longer than on the D. There are some key panel line and rivet line differences in the main fuselage section (if I recall correctly, the location of the flare pistol port on the left side of the fuselage is also not exactly the same as on the D) and there is a distinct contour difference just in front of the windscreen, over the firewall, known as the "P-51B hump", that the D-model doesn't have. The D-model era wing fuel tank vent scoops on each side of the radiator intake/doghouse are also completely different and positioned differently. I've seen some D-to-B model conversions in the past which don't address many/most of those details, but still looks good in the end.

I can put together some photos/images to illustrate all of these details (I've got large folders filled with just P-51B/C photos). AirCorps Aviation, which did the "Sierra Sue II" restoration, just recently completed a P-51C restoration known as "Lope's Hope 3rd", which was also done just as accurately and authentically, down to the smallest detail, just like "Sierra Sue II", and by far provides the best resource available today on what a wartime P-51B/C was.

 

I've actually just begun working on a new 3d virtual model of the P-51B/C, based on the original NAA blueprints, so we could proceed with both projects simultaneously (I know on my end, it is probably going to take about a year to complete). ; )

 

 

 

 

Edited by John Terrell

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Just out of curiousity Why not just use the Revell 1/32nd P-51B ?  This is the current boxing and theyre available here in my area ? NlL9H7A.jpg

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Posted (edited)

The Revell 1/32 P-51B is notoriously bad, especially when considering how inaccurate the overall shape of the aircraft is, as well as how inaccurate the surface detail is - raised panel lines (really all of which are not accurately drawn/placed) and huge, raised rivets all over the place. The new Revell 1/32 P-51D-5-NA kit, although not absolutely perfect in itself, is much more refined and much, much more accurate to the real thing in shape, contour and surface detail. Even the new Revell 1/32 P-51D-5-NA has the elevators correctly depicted as fabric-covered, where as the Revell 1/32 P-51B, which definitely should, does not.

Edited by John Terrell

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Posted (edited)

HI John, indeed it is a ambitous proyect, as you say I can see many challanges and obstacles coming in the way!

thanks for pointing the main differences between "D" and "B" models, all will be taken into account, the research starts, I'll be very glad to have your opinion and expertise through the build as it  develops, all the info/pictures are more than welcome, really apreciate it mate!!!

Also I would love to follow your progres on your CAD model, if you are  posting it in any forum please provide a link!

BTW: I also do 3D modeling, but organic in Zbrush mainly, I have done some famous pilots portraits!

cheers

 

Edited by antonio argudo

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Posted (edited)

Well, doing some research these days, the first area I'm focusing now are the wings, the inboard wing leading edges  are the main concern and will need some plastic cirugy work, here some wing diagrams  I found in manuals.

Also the gun bay amo doors are smaller, gun nozzle, landing light etc etc...

 

 

wing4.jpg

wing2.jpg

wing.jpg

wing5.jpg

 

not a "B" model but the wing is the same

 

muuuu.jpg

Edited by antonio argudo

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Posted (edited)

here I marked in green how the wing edgge is very different from the D model with a  wide "V" shape  inclination and how should look in the model

 

boom.jpg

Edited by antonio argudo

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This is going to be very interesting.

 

Is the Revell 51B so bad as not useful as a parts donor? I had seen a couple of builds where outline issues 'seemed' to be relatively easy to address?

 

I shall follow this closely as I fancy a crack at something like this later...

 

Matt

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Brave man Antonio. Not my scale, but I really like the idea of it. Good luck - I'll be watching supportively!

 

Justin

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Posted (edited)

thanks gents for cheering up,

I think the Revell P51B  is a rebox form the old Hasegawa one which I think is from the 70-80's probably and having see some pictures I immediately discard it, other reasonable option is using the Hobbycraft Mustang models, but quite hard to find these days, not a bad kit but I see some minor unaccurate details like the rear canopy window size, so I will try to make my own based on my research and good reference documents, I bought some years ago a DVD with NAA microfilm blueprints before the Tamiya D model came available, I guess it can be useful now, I hope Tamiya don't release a B model while I'm building mine lol, so after a long evening going through lots of blueprints I found interesting ones related to the wings, I also had to overlap pics and clean anotations, this is a view of the wing without the wingtip, flaps, alerons or gun ports, it will help to set the different wing edge angle from the D model

cheers

 

wing_p51.jpg

Edited by antonio argudo

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1 hour ago, antonio argudo said:

I think the Revell P51B  is a rebox form the old Hasegawa one which I think is from the 70-80's probably

AFAIK there are only 2 B model kits in plastic,  the Revell kit from the late 60's, whch was based on a racer and reproduces it different nose,   reboxed many times,   and  the Trumpeter kit.

see

https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?fkSECTION[]=Kits&q=North+American+P-51+Mustang+1%2F32

 

For  questions like this I really suggest asking on Hyperscale Plane Talking,  and tracking down the P-51 SIG.

for example  for this on best  1/32nd P-51B

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1471016616

 

note that there is Rutman resin one and the 21st  Century Toys (see link)  the latter may well be a better starting point,  many of the 21st century toys were mastered by Roy Sutherland. (Barracudacals)

 

I don't about the details of 21st  C Toys, it's a pre-painted part built 'toy'   seems Roy did have hand in it

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1180727880

 

for an example  of what can be done with a 21stC Toys model

https://modelingmadness.com/review/axis/cleaver/tmc32f.htm

 

he is/was a member here,  but @Tourist  is Christian A in the Hyperscale thread above,  is one of the Mustang experts.

also

 

There was a 'discussion' on Hypescale recently about the Revell P-51D nose,  and that noted the B/C nose is slightly different  to D.

 

HTH

 

 

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Wow! That's really a bold and ambitious project, much more than I would ever attempt.

I wish you luck and look forward to developments.

John 

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Posted (edited)

rev04740_0.jpg?v=00000000014773bt.jpg

I have two of these in my stash and mostly build one or just keep them . l surmise Revell the way the sprue trees look we may see a later D with the filet and a B. As for the Hobbycraft ones with the Allison engines Hobbycraft has gone out of the kit business and sticking strictly to distributing. A lot of their models have turned up in the Academy range which leads me to believe either Academy is leasing the molds or they bought them ( note: some of these have turned up in the Italeri line as well hence the conclusion) . With the all these Mustangs coming out l am hoping Academy will start molding those Allison Mustangs to compete solely due to the fact no one else has that version and would sell well.

Back to my kits. While fiddling with the Revell kits l found them short in height in the wings so no after market wheel wells will fit them. The fuselage on the other hand l think an aftermarket cockpit will fit . Lets face it no one kit is perfect and no one kit is unbuildable (Though Roden kits have come close..have the He 111C and E)  if you put some time into it. As an old school modeller l will probably do at least one just for the challenge and just for the feel of victory and accomplishment. I plan to get the new Revell one just for the early D and wonder if a direct fuselage replacement is possible..we will see. 

Personally I think we are getting spoiled with shake and bake kits we are getting these days and lets face it l am too ( Tamiya builder here) but l like going back to my roots and taking up the gauntlet and tackling such projects. Oh yeah and l am not picky ( you noticed :P ? ) 

 

Hacker ....have Flory sanders and Rosie riveter will travel 

Edited by hacker

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Posted (edited)

Hi Antonio,

some years ago I started to convert Dragon's P-51D into B model. This work haven't finished yet, but I made some research and drew scale plans for some parts. Here is 1/32 P-51B cockpit. You need just download full size image and print in real size to get 1/32 paper drawing.

40781189451_c552cd2ee8_b.jpgP51B_cockpitarrangement1 by Alexey Matvienko, on Flickr

Edited by Fencer-1

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There are templates for fuselage part master (for vacu) and armored glass. I made the upper fuselage part from thin clear sheet using vacuum formihg process. Take in account that P-51B has different engine cowling profile. It rises slightly higher towards winshield in comparison with P-51D, so yo'll need some additional work to blend smoothly the new fuselage top and P-51D cowling. 

39886696085_3e72fd8f89_b.jpgBack_lines_templates by Alexey Matvienko, on Flickr

39886696605_2b8ca67978_b.jpgArmored_glass_P51B by Alexey Matvienko, on Flickr

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wow, Thanks Alexey, this is exactly what I was looking for, you've made my day, million thanks!

yes there is a different cowling shape that can be seen clearly in this picture, it needs to be taken into account,

I would like to see your work on your mustang Alexey, thanks again mate

cheers

fuse.jpg

P_51_BPROFILECOWLINGCOLOR_2.jpg

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l wonder if one could use a modified D cockpit? These drawings are great reference. l am hoping Revell will do a B before they do a later D but we will see.

 

hacker

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Posted (edited)

Finally did some cuts on the kit,  looking like a "D" no more;)

sorry for the crappy pics, not at my usual workbench and using a phone camera under bad lighting

cheers

 

revell2.jpg

revell.jpg

revell3.jpg

Edited by antonio argudo

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That's an interesting approach to the inner wing leading edge modification Antonio, are you planning to use the original leading edge too?

 

John

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Hi John,

I have used milliput putty to create the inner wing leading, need some more trim but getting there, the shadow shows the V shape I'm looking for, also I filled panel lines and will be working on the rest modifications of the wing

cheers

innerwing2.jpg

innerwing.jpg

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You're definitely getting there.

I have a 1/32 Hobbycraft P-51A  ( which I might start soon ) with a Vector cockpit set, so if any of the Hobbycraft parts such as the side consoles and radio boxes are of any use I will send them to you.

 

Cheers

 

John

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Impressive stuff!

 

Cheers

 

Terry

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Terry, glad you enjoy it.

13 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

I have a 1/32 Hobbycraft P-51A  ( which I might start soon )

Hi John, I will follow your build undoubtedly, the more Mustangs the better, start soon ;)

13 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

so if any of the Hobbycraft parts such as the side consoles and radio boxes are of any use I will send them to you.

 

thank you so much mate, will see if I may or not need it once this build moves on, you are very kind!

cheers

Edited by antonio argudo

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