Cuban Sea Furies.

[tank152]

Hi all, 

with my replacement starboard half on the way to me from Airfix and the build progressing splendidly I'm fast approaching time to splash some colour on it. Originally I was going for a Iraqi one but I now fancy doing a Cuban one. I'd already purchased the Xtradecal sheet in readiness.

Any one with any ideas of what shade of greens were used on these Cuban Furies? Dark green seems a little vague.

Then I noticed this sheet and that Cuban one just screams out to be done doesn't it?

 

Again any pointers to those camouflage colours, Sky under surfaces?

Let the guess work begin!

Tim.

[Troy Smith]

Hi Tim

 

this has been discussed  before.

The Tigerhead one looks dubious..... but I've not been impressed at their research.

I can't seewhat xtradecal call out for the colour,  but if they don't know they guess (but don'tsay it's a guess..)

 

on a more positive note, right,  yonks ago I posted what  I knew upon ARC...

 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/288672-hobbycraft-148-scale/&do=findComment&comment=2757081

Quote

but there are maybe 3 photos taken at the time of BOP

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/baypigs-airforce.htm

http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=259&Itemid=47

Quote

A FAR "Sea Fury" on display in 1959. Since Batista was unable to obtain combat aircraft from the USA due to the embargo he turned to Britain for that purpouse. The "Sea Furies" arrived too late to be of any real use to the FAEC but provided the FAR with a credible combat capability (as clearly demonstrated at the Bay of Pigs) until the arrival of the MiGs. Note the underwing rockets which are shown to good advantage, drop tanks resting aginst the landing gear can also be seen. A sea Fury serial 542 still exists in Havana. (Albert Grandolini collection)

also

http://www.cubadefensa.cu/?q=node/1989

I'd suggest the roughly mottled camoflaged ones are most representative of BOP era, but what those colours are, who knows.

The top photo of the preserved one is most like the 1959 photo.

If anyone know more I'd love to know too!

PS I just had a look at Cuba on satellite images, it looks pretty green. I'd suggest the mottle Sea Fury to be dark and light green as dispersal camouflage.

 

from

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/288672-hobbycraft-148-scale/&do=findComment&comment=2757081

 

one preserved machines is pretty funky....  though at the bottom there might be a reason for these colours I found randomly...

 

 

 

this looks more believable

 

 

Maybe just use up some late war Luftwaffe greens you don't think are good matches....  given my comments on Cuba from satellite pics...

 

also

On 23/06/2014 at 22:01, Panoz said:

At the time of the Bay of Pigs invasion the FAR Sea Furies were painted in an overall Olive Drab camo as SH suggests.

Subsequently they were camouflaged although the colours used were anyone's guess...

 

Edit: I recently found out that the pilot entering the Sea Fury is teniente Gustavo Bourzac, so this means that the two photos above were taken during the time of the "Bay of Pigs" invasion and not after as it is generally believed. Just food for thought...

 

the last  bit is new too me....

 

OK,while I waspondering on the vegatation of Cuba,  I google image 'Cuba airfield'

 And ran across despondent MiG

looks like leftover MiG paint got used to jazz up the Sea Fury.

pic from here BTW

http://20thcenturyaviationmagazine.com/military-aviation-magazine/former-mig-pilot-orestes-lorenzo-recounts-his-daring-defection-flights/

for comparion

 

OK,  there is a shot of MiG-23 772, the Cugan defector on arrival

 

sorry if a bit rambling but just 'discovered'  this by searches and thought relevant...

 

you could do it in the preserved funky scheme Tim,  now that would turn a few heads!

 

cheers

T

 

 

[tank152]

Hi Troy,

Thanks for your reply. The green call out on the Xtradecal is Dark Green X001 so i'd like a equivalent in Mr Paint, Mr Color or Tamiya.

So the Cuban Fury on the Tigerhead sheet is based on a poorly restored museum one so I can discount those colors? I've checked out their web page and the colours they give look to be Mid Stone/Dark Green. 

From what I can make out all the aircraft had their under surfaces painted the same as the uppers. 

Great sugestion about using RLM colours the Tigerhead one would look good in RLM82/83 and maybe the Xtradecal one in RLM83.

Cheers,

Tim.

[RidgeRunner]

My two penny worth - they certainly had a mottled/two colour upper. I've not seen any colour images of these so don't know the exact colour. In the scenario, though, who can argue? I've seen the Havana machine and it looks like mid US green (a la SEA). I know it was before the SEA scheme same about but it wouldn't be far off,would it? There is another decal set - Blackbird I think. Try them, although they will only be guessing too!

 

Martin

[tank152]

Thanks for your reply. Will have to check that decal sheet out, it'll give me something to search for when I next see Paul Davies at a show.

I thnk i'm going with RLM83 with a mottle of RLM82. Quite funny really as I'm building it for a change from the Luftwaffe stuff I normally do and I'm going to end up spraying it in a similar way and using the same colours!!

Tim.

[RidgeRunner]

Okay mate. Certainly it wasn't the blue and green scheme (like the preserved machine above).

 

M

[tank152]

Hi Martin, I do like your suggestion of using SEA greens, thinking about it I may invest in a couple of bottles from Mr Paint, used along with the RLM colours i'll get some nice tonal variations.

[Diggers11]

On ‎27‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 10:55 PM, tank152 said:

with my replacement starboard half on the way to me from Airfix and the build progressing splendidly I'm fast approaching time to splash some colour on it.

Hi Tim,

Sorry for briefly steering this slightly off topic, but have you actually been informed by Airfix that your replacement fuselage half is on its way? I'm wondering because i contacted them regarding this same issue with my kit. I have yet to receive a reply other than a couple of automated emails and that was a couple of weeks ago.

 

The Cuban Sea Fury's are certainly colourful. (Steered back on topic)

Edited March 1, 2018 by Diggers11

[tank152]

Hi Diggers11, 

Steer away! Yes I received an email on Tuesday off a Nicholas Coles informing me my replacement parts, the starboard fuse half and I presume the canopy, was to be posted on that day. I've not received them yet but with all this bsd weather I can understand that. I heard back from Airfix the following day that I made them aware of the problem so it may be worth firing another email off to them.

 

Tim.

[Troy Smith]

6 hours ago, tank152 said:

I thnk i'm going with RLM83 with a mottle of RLM82. Quite funny really as I'm building it for a change from the Luftwaffe stuff I normally do and I'm going to end up spraying it in a similar way and using the same colours!!

HI Tim

 

A thought,   export Sea Fury's were usually camouflaged and marked by Hawker's before export,   hence all the photos of various foriegn marked planes at Langley (I presume)

I've not seen a Cuban marked plane,  perhaps later events  made them 'an embarrasment'   and the pics were  not published?

But given they were supplied direct by Hawker's,   this seems probable.

If so,  then a standard  British colour  is likely,  and since the general consensus is green or grenny  brown,   RAF  DarkGreen seems to fit the bill.

This  plane in this picture

 

Hmmm,  lets see what out there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hawker_Sea_Fury_operators#_Cuba

Quote

Cuba received 15 ex-FAA Sea Fury FB.11s and two Sea Fury T.20s in 1958. Aircraft were assembled in 1959 and fought against the CIA-sponsored Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961

 

OK,so  they are not in FAA colours,  so have been reconditioned,  and likley painted by Hawkers to a supplied spec.  The above looks to be an example.

 

http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/ArticGiron1-e.html

 

Quote

Cuban Sea Furies 

---

When the first ten Sea Furies (FAEC 500, 505, 510, 530, 541, 542 and 543 among others.) arrived to Cuba in the late 1958, the Fulgencio Batista regime was in the middle of a struggle, trying to put out several insurrection movements, all courtesy of Fidel Castro�s Guerrilla Forces.

Enrique Carreras and his Sea Fury.

When the umarked crates were unloaded at the Havana docks, workers were stripped and searched before and after the operation, mainly due to the fear of sabotage. The operation for bringing operational the ten Sea Furies was taken by surprise by the overthrown of the Batista Government, the first airworthy aircrafts did not took active part in the final stage of the battle against Castro�s Forces before the overthrown, due to the lack of machine guns or any kind of armament. These were going to be delivered together with the final batch of seven Sea Furies that Hawker had programmed to deliver by the early 1959. 

Shortly before the fall of the Batista regime, negotiations aimed to acquire ten more Sea Furies and a large order of 250lb. bombs, ammunition and rockets were initiated. Hawker offered to deliver those by february 1959, but with the events rapidly overtaking the Batista government efforts, the deal was never completed. 

The Fulgencio Batista regime fell on January 1 1959, and Fidel Castro reached Havana on January 8 and gained control over all the military installations throughout Cuba. Soon, purges among the military officers were initiated by the Castro regime. In few days, over 1000 officers, including all the flying personnel, had been arrested. Only 43 pilots were found innocent of the war crimes charges. This lack of capable pilots was the ever present problem for Castro�s Air Arm until the late 60s. 

Right in the middle of an organisational nightmare for the Castro�s government, the final batch of five Sea Furies FB11 and two T MK20 (FAEC 575 and 580) arrived in crates to Havana. Other equipment delivered by Hawker included 297 70in. rockets and 60,000 round of 20mm. ammunition. 

By november 1959, only 12 Sea Furies were airworthy but their batteries were stolen as a result of an internal struggle in the Air Force. The other five were damaged beyond repair. Most of the other types like the F-47Ds, B-26Cs (Glass nose) and T-33As, were grounded due to lack of spares and maintenance staff. 

By the early 1960, a team comformed by six mechanics from Hawker arrived to Cuba. Their mission was to bring operational again the Sea Furies. Their contract was for six months, with the possibility of extending this term to a year. On June 8 1960, an insurrection exploded within the Fuerza Aerea Revolucionaria, and soon, 28 pilots from the Sea Fury and B-26 squadrons were arrested. Once again the Sea Furies were grounded, relying only in the Hawker team to keep them airworthy. By that time, the Fuerza Aerea Revolucionaria had only six "politically reliable" pilots, being supported by six chilean jet pilots.

In february 1961, the Hawker team brought the surviving twelve Sea Furies airworthy. But the supply of combat pilots remained short, there were only 25 of them. Few of the F-47D were flyable at this time, and the combat force was conformed by only four B-26Cs (from a total of 15), eight T-33As and the Sea Furies. 
 

  In the skies over Girón 

---

Hawker Sea Fury 542, reloading ammo during the Bay of Pigs incident

In the early morning of april 15 1961, eight CIA B-26B (Solid Nose), with Fuerza Aerea Revolucionaria markings but piloted by cuban exiled crews, took off from Happy Valley in Nicaragua and headed to Cuba. At 6:00 AM, the planes attacked La Libertad airbase where they destroyed a Sea Fury, among other planes. Seven people were killed. Later that same morning, another Sea Fury was destroyed in a hangar of the MOA bay mining company. Shortly after, the San Antonio de los Banos airbase and the Antonio Maceo airport were attacked by the B-26Bs. By the end of that day, the Fuerza Aerea Revolucionaria was left with less than half of its original air power. There remained only two B-26C, two Sea Furies, and two T-33A at San Antonio de los banos airbase, and only one Sea Fury at the Antonio Maceo airport. On the other hand, two of the attacking B-26 were damaged by ground fire, one of them managed to reach Key West with one engine feathered and low on fuel, and the other landed at Miami International Air Port in almost the same conditions. 

Around 2:00 AM on april 17, the CIA/cuban exiled assault force reached the shore at Playa Giron but soon they were discovered by an army patrol. The soldiers alerted the nearing bases and several skirmishes broke up. The two surviving Sea Furies were deployed from the San Antonio airbase, and within fifteen minutes they were over the area, making several low passes and strafing the invading forces. When the FAR B-26Cs arrived and began to attack the invaders, the Sea Furies headed to the sea in search of the mother ships. Soon, they were located and the Sea Furies began to attack them. The Sea Fury FAR 541, piloted by major Enrique Carrera, damaged with rockets the command and control ship "Marsopa" and later, sunk the main supply ship "Houston". Now the invading forces had no command post and almost all the supplies of ammo, food and communications for the invasion were in the bottom of the sea with the "Houston".

 

I'd go or RAF Dark Green as a base,  but the mottle?  

 

one last little this

 

is described as

Sea Fury with the colours of Batista´s Air Force.

 

which is interesting.....

this

https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/498122-nine-pilots-saved-castro-s-cuba.html

which links the above..

and

has

The book "Hawker aircraft since 1920" by Francis K. Mason states:

Quote

Fifteen MArk 11s and TWO Mark 20s, selected from aircraft re-purchased from the M.O.S. in 1957, reconditionned and delivered without serial numbers by sea to Cuba during 1958 undre contract HAL/58/C./039.

 

so there might be more information buried in the files as to delievery scheme?

 

 

 

[Diggers11]

3 hours ago, tank152 said:

Hi Diggers11, 

Steer away! Yes I received an email on Tuesday off a Nicholas Coles informing me my replacement parts, the starboard fuse half and I presume the canopy, was to be posted on that day. I've not received them yet but with all this bsd weather I can understand that. I heard back from Airfix the following day that I made them aware of the problem so it may be worth firing another email off to them.

 

Tim.

Thank you Tim for clearing that up for me. Ill definitely send another email to Airfix.

 

Mark

[tank152]

Troy, 

Thanks for even more input. It had never crossed my mind they may have received a coat of green before they arrived in Cuba, i'd presumed, dangerous I know, that they had arrived in the standard Dark Sea Grey/Sky and that had been simply over painted. Will have a play with both greens but use RLM 82 for the mottling.

That NMF Fury is available on a Aeromaster sheet.

 

Tim. 

 

[Troy Smith]

13 hours ago, tank152 said:

That NMF Fury is available on a Aeromaster sheet.

and they weren't called 'errormaster' for nothing.....

I'd not be surprised if they preserved ones in Cuba have just been repainted multiple times.... hopefully one day some historian with a modellers mind will get to carefully sand back the paint.....

13 hours ago, tank152 said:

It had never crossed my mind they may have received a coat of green before they arrived in Cuba, i'd presumed, dangerous I know, that they had arrived in the standard Dark Sea Grey/Sky and that had been simply over painted.

Given it was an arms deal with Batista,  and the planes were overhauled,   and their potential use,   I'd expect  them to have  been repainted by Hawker's.

 

By RLM 82 this is now the bright grass green.... (in my youth  82 was dark green, 83 bright....)

 

Anyway,  glad my ramblings have not been  'too rambling' and of some input.

I've been distracted by just how blinkin' complex the shapes of a Hurricane wheel well are and what's worth  including for  72nd rebuild...

 

 

Cheers

T

[tank152]

Troy, 

I always appreciate your, and anyone elses imput.

Yes by RLM82 I mean the bright green. I'm hoping to get something sorted and get some pics up once I start to get some colour on it. I'm just in the middle of fixing all the p/e into the cockpit.

Good luck with your wheel wells!

Tim. 

[amos brierley]

Hello,   colour conundrums aside  (its got to be RAF Dk Green..........made in Britain.....so Brit colours  .............that's what the photo of a plane in Dk Green is showing, it cannot be Olive Drab as its way too dark you`d have to be talking ANA 602?????????? Olive Drab)  any how I have a very pertinent question: arrestor hook! The Cuban Furies had no need for one, but, was this just a case of removing the hook its self, or as I was looking at two weeks ago, making the  AMG `Bagdad` Fury kit ( 48003 ) . This kit has the option to make  a Fury with no arrestor hook, you get an enlarged rudder ( ie longer in length )   and a replacement lower tail skin when you remove the bump from the rudder post structure. So, what to do? I say I was on this route two weeks ago, then research got in the way. The photos of preserved Cuban A/C  show just the arrestor hook being removed ( the Dk Green A/C under a sun shelter being a good example. )  BUT, the period photo`s just don't seem  to show the tail area........... Over to you. Thanx.                                        Oh and another thing the period photo - there`s a distinct sheen to the Dk Green A/C that you`d get from a freshly made Built In Britain A/C .

[larumivi1951]

Cuban Sea Fury

[Panoz]

On 1/3/2018 at 7:58 PM, Troy Smith said:

one last little this

 

is described as

Sea Fury with the colours of Batista´s Air Force.

This comes from the "Sea Fury in action" book.

BTW when the book came out 25 years ago, Dan Hagedorn complained to the publishers that the artwork was bogus and that no Furies had ever been painted in FAEC markings.