Fighter Scheme RAF November 1940 to April 1941

[FatFlyHalf]

Hello fellow modellers,

Recently I've been building a few Hurricanes and Spitfires, along with some Bf 109's, to show the progressive changes in fighter camouflage.

I've got to November 1940 and the change of scheme in Fighetr Command.

There are precious few photos showing the late 1940 scheme with the black under wing.

But there seems to be even less in the way of 1/72 decal sets for RAF fighter aircraft of this period.

At least, I cannot find anything.

I'm prepared to cobble someting togeteher, if I can find a reasonable photo reference.

I'm aiming to use a Spitfire 1a (Airfix) that's being - slowly - assembled now.

So I'm seeking help in finding the right aircraft and decals.

Can anyone out there point me in the right direction?

 

FatFlyHalf

[CedB]

Hi FatFlyHalf

I built a black and white trio here and used the Xtradecal BoB sheet X72117 from Hannants here for the Spitfire.

I've also nearly finished a KP Spitfire 1b here that uses the Sky / Black underwing scheme for X4272 in December 1940 and I masked the idents so I have the transfers except the serials - if you want them PM me!

HTH

Ced

[Troy Smith]

6 minutes ago, FatFlyHalf said:

There are precious few photos showing the late 1940 scheme with the black under wing.

a darn site more than for the BoB!

there are a load of hurricane shots for the Poish and Czech squadrons for starters, and if any aircraft is of a certain age, in photo taken in late spring/sumer 1941, then it would have had the black port wing before it was removed.

6 minutes ago, FatFlyHalf said:

But there seems to be even less in the way of 1/72 decal sets for RAF fighter aircraft of this period.

 

Hurricane cliche would Stand Tucks DT-A,  

 

on page 11 of this there is LZ_Z, P7490

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/01-Supermarine-Spitfire

 

pics on pages 9/10 would have had the black port wing 

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Aircraft-Profiles/Britain/WW2/Supermarine-Spitfire-I-II

 

IIRC the Airfix Spitfire starter ste has QJ-B with a black wing a well..

 

in a rush, other will know more

 

 

 

[Beard]

37 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

IIRC the Airfix Spitfire starter ste has QJ-B with a black wing a well..

Your memory serves you well Troy, it has sky/ black  (night) undesides.

[Smithy]

As Troy said above there are lots of photos of Spits with the black port wing underside post BoB camouflage scheme.

 

If you're after some more I can give some specifically with serials and coding (mostly 92 and 616 so both QJ coding).

 

And if you're after specific technical information concerning the scheme such as the actual AMOs, chapter 9 in Paul Lucas' "The Battle for Britain - RAF May to December 1940" is excellent.

[Dave Fleming]

Some Tomahawks and Mohawks(along with lots of others) on the IWM site.

 

 

[Graham Boak]

One other thing to note is that aircraft delivered to the squadrons at the start of this period would have Sky Blue trim, fuselage band and spinner,  This can be seen in the photo of the Mohawk above, more arguably on the Tomahawk too.  The reason was that the MU issuing the paint for these was not correctly informed of the Stores Reference for Sky until after November 1940, whereas the companies were.  The US aircraft had a UK company responsible for them.  Blackburn was responsible for FAA aircraft, I'm afraid I don't know which company was "partnered" with Curtiss.  I suspect that the Lysanders in the background of the Mohawk picture are probably red herrings.

 

This is of course ignoring any suggestion of the US origin of the paint on the P-40 underside, but Dupont Sky Type S Grey is also darker than Sky Blue,  so it doesn't matter.

 

Incidentally, has anyone else noticed that the P-40 only has guns in one wing?  Do you think that the MU hadn't been informed of the visit of the official photographer?

[Smithy]

2 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

One other thing to note is that aircraft delivered to the squadrons at the start of this period would have Sky Blue trim, fuselage band and spinner

 

Very true Graham. Paul Lucas has also made mention of this.

 

BTW Fatflyhalf, Neil Robinson did a very similar project back in the March 2006 issue of "Model Aircraft Monthly" where he chronicled 9 builds of 616 machines from Dunkirk right up until a Spit VII from D-Day. the builds covered the full gamut and evolution of camouflage schemes.

 

Looking forward to pics of your Spit once you have the ball rolling.

 

Tim

[Graham Boak]

3 minutes ago, Smithy said:

 

Very true Graham. Paul Lucas has also made mention of this.

 

That's where I got the explanation from, but the evidence of a different colour, lighter and bluer, had been discussed for many years before that.  The identification of the colour as Sky Blue is not 100% confirmed, but it matches the colour photos, and what else could it be?

[Smithy]

That's exactly what I think too Graham.

[FatFlyHalf]

Thanks everyone.

I'm amazed that my google skills are so poor, as I just could not find any photo references.

I'm indebted to you all.

I will buckle down to do some more research before doing any more than a basic build.

 

FFH

 

[Dave Fleming]

The Mohawk is at Boscombe

[mhaselden]

22 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

 

That's where I got the explanation from, but the evidence of a different colour, lighter and bluer, had been discussed for many years before that.  The identification of the colour as Sky Blue is not 100% confirmed, but it matches the colour photos, and what else could it be?

 

There are a couple of other possible explanations.  It could be the result of different paint batches appearing slightly different or, in the case of the P-36s, the difference between MAP Sky and the US-equivalent paints applied at the factory.  However, it's equally plausible that the fuselage band was Sky Blue.  I lean towards the Sky Blue option simply because we see the tonal difference so frequently, and even on Hurricanes that always wore MAP colours.

[Graham Boak]

In the case of the Mohawk, yes, but this "different paint batches" just doesn't hold up to study.  We never see light blue undersides in this period, we never see trim that is darker than the underside, and we never see any difference on new aircraft after mid-1941.  All of this is inconsistent with batches of Sky being that variable.

[Dave Fleming]

Interesting to note on the Tomahawk photo the aircraft in the backgreund doesn't have the black wing