Walrus MkI vs MkII

[85sqn]

Hi Folks,

 

I'm after some good gen on Supermarine and Saunders-Roe built walruses. Now as I understand from Wikipedia (yes I know not to take it too seriously):

 

'A total of 740 Walruses were built in three major variants: the Seagull V, Walrus I, and the Walrus II. The Mark IIs were all constructed by Saunders-Roe and the prototype first flew in May 1940. This aircraft had a wooden hull, which was heavier but had the advantage of using less of the precious wartime stockpiles of light metal alloys. Saunders-Roe would go on to build under license 270 metal Mark Is and 191 wooden-hulled Mark IIs'.

 

Does anyone know what the obvious differences are between a I and II visually and what the serials are for the Saunders-Roe built I and II's? I have Sturtivant but I have been told that some of the serials and marques for Saunders-Roe built aircraft are innaccurate. It also shows some Supermarine built aircraft as MkII's, however I thought Supermarine only built I's?

 

Can anyone help?

 

Nick

 

 

[dogsbody]

Some older information here, but it might be useful.

 

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Aircraft-Profiles/Britain/WW2/Supermarine-Walrus

 

 

 

Chris

[85sqn]

On 26/02/2018 at 3:20 PM, dogsbody said:

Some older information here, but it might be useful.

 

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Aircraft-Profiles/Britain/WW2/Supermarine-Walrus

 

 

 

Chris

Chris, thanks for the link. That says that Saro took over production of MkI’s after 15 in the R series serials. Sturtivant has Saro producing them from R6582 which is the 13th in the R series. (may not have been allocated to FAA hence why not in the list).

 

Here’s the Sturtivant list.

 

Supermarine Walrus I:

L series 168 Aircraft -L2336

 

P series 50 Aircraft P5646-P5670 and P5696-P5720

 

R series 13 Aircraft R6543-R6557

 

Saro Walrus I:

R series10 aircraft R6582-R6591

 

Saro Walrus II:

W series 195 aircraft W2670-W2689 and W2700-W2729 and W2731-W2760 and W2766-W2798 and W3005-W3051 and W3062-W3101

 

Supermarine Walrus I with refitted wooden hulls

X series 2 aircraft, X1045-X1046

 

Saro Walrus I 

X series 65 aircraft X9460-X9484 and X9498-X9532 and X9554-X9558

 

Saro Walrus II 

X Series 35 aircraft X9559-X9593

 

Saro Walrus II

Z series 51 aircraft Z1755-Z1784 and Z1804-Z1823

 

Saro Walrus II

HD series 100 aircraft HD804-HD851 and HD899-HD936

 

Total Saro production 456 vs 461 listed on Wiki? I could have missed some out somewhere or they simply weren't allocated to the FAA.

 

There is a nice little cutaway drawing in the Aeroplane collectors Archive: Fleet Air Arm Aircraft of World War 2. It is of a MkII. I can’t  really see the difference of hull between that and a MkI unless it is simply the internal frames/ribs that are wooden with metal skin. Useful to know the MkII has a pneumatic tailwheel rather than an alloy of the MkI.

 

I wish to make W3085, a Walrus MkII that served with the BPF, RAAF and also lived in my town of Midhurst briefly.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

[Seahawk]

Haven't gone through your listing line by line but have noted, from the Putnam on Supermarine Aircraft (p.360) that the last 4 of batch R6543-R6557 (ie R6554-7) were not delivered.  Sturtivant lists R6554 and 5 as allocated but not delivered, believed destroyed in enemy raid at Mkrs, 6/40, but is silent on the other 2.   Depending on how you count things, this makes R6582 (the first of contract B21120/39 with Saro) either the 12th (in terms of aircraft delivered), the 14th (in terms of aircraft actually given their serial number) or the 16th (in terms of serial numbers set aside but not necessarily applied to an airframe) in the Rxxxx series.

 

The Putnam agrees on a total of 461 Saro-built Walruses, 271 Mark I and 190 Mark II.  In terms of differences between the two marks, Putnam (not necessarily approaching it from a modeller's point of view) records only that, as you already know, Saro introduced a rubber-tyred tailwheel, which was much quieter when operating from hard runways.

 

The Nicholl book The Supermarine Walrus (Foulis, 1966), while giving a full list of differences between the Seagull and the Walrus (most irrelevant to the modelbuilder), says nothing about differences between the Walrus marks but does say (p.87) that the Mark II was specifically intended as an aircraft for training.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Seahawk

[85sqn]

Thanks Seahawk, 

 

the chap on this page infers that a MkII wouldn't have the metal skinning effect on the hull that the MkI has: http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/1998/01/stuff_eng_detail_walrus.htm

 

If that's the two main details a II has, shouldn't be too much trouble using the new Airfix kit and some filler to fill any rivet marks and smooth out the underside.

[Aidrian]

EDIT

 

Apologies to all I really should check my facts and the visual evidence before jumping in.

 

The info regarding the Point Cook RAAF Walrus apears to be misleading. While the serial makes it wooden hulled MkII, the machine, as recovered and preserved, has a metal hull making it a MkI. I simply can't explain that  - in theory the serial should go with the hull so if parts of HD874 were combined with the hull of another MkI Walrus then the resulting machine should have retained the identity of the hull donor rather than the serial of the remaining parts    To make amends here isa pictiure of a genuine MkII awainting disposal. Youy can see the revised nose profile and a hard chine along the upper edge of the rear of the hull  - the Mk1 had a rouinded edge here

 

 

 

 

Orignal message follows

 

 

Sorry to be slow answering - haven't dropped in for a while...

 

There is a subtle difference in the shape of the bow forward and around the bow position. The Caruana drawings in Warpaint 39 show this; even when you see them side by side in profile its not a major difference but it it more visible when seen in 3/4 view. Best to compare photos of the preserved RAAF (MkII) and FAA (MkI) examples - the curve of the Upper surface of the hull around the gun ring in the MkII seems to make the bow position a little more prominent  than it is on the MkI where the upper deck is flatter. In quarter inch scale the old CA kit has plastic thick enough to file in the curved surfaces, but I am not sure about how much meat there is in this area on the Airfix version. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Aidrian
Correcting misleading info

[85sqn]

Superb, thankyou I will take a look.