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CedB

Red Arrows, Now and Then - Airfix Gnat and Hawk 1/72

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Stunning work there Ced old chap. 

One word of warning about using klear to attach the decals/transfers/what ever you want to call them, I've heard it helps them stick well BUT I've also heard that it grabs said transfer/decals instantly with no hope of sliding into position. 

A bit of searching on the forum might be in order, to check my dubious advice. 

 

Matt

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A bit of a stinger about that decal dear boy. A bit late for advice and all that “but” in tricky situations like that stripe I tend to use just water, then slide it to where I want it and let it dry a bit. Then when happy add the micro sol. I know you’re meant to add the micro set to glue them in place but I don’t like too much risk.:fool: Excelent work on tother and fixing the bosted one too.

 

bravo sir.

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10 hours ago, S5 modeller said:

One word of warning about using klear to attach the decals/transfers/what ever you want to call them, I've heard it helps them stick well BUT I've also heard that it grabs said transfer/decals instantly with no hope of sliding into position. 

 

It's not strictly true Matt, it really depends on how much Klear you use. I tend to use a small 'puddle' that sits proud of the surface (difficult to put into words how much really) which does allow the decal to move - if you just brush a thin coat on then it will tend to 'grab' the decal. However, even if it does all is not lost, as you can carefully lift the edge of the decal with a wet brush & let some water under it in order to reposition it, then when happy it's in place you can put some more Klear under it and roll a Klear dampened cotton bud over it to bed it down. Klear doesn't actually dry instantly & I've managed to move decals 3 or 4 minutes after doing the roll over with a cotton bud treatment. But much longer than that and they're on stronger than a limpet!

 

Keith

 

edit - should have said 'wet brush 'if you need to lift the decal.

 

K

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Hello Ced, Sorry to hear about that mishap, but you will fix it in a way, which will be enjoyable for you. I would like to give you some tips (advice?) , but I can't as I haven't done these things for more than quite a while. But for god sake, there are so many other very kind people here on bm, who (will/can) support you with these difficulties. My respect.  Cheers

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On ‎07‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 4:29 PM, CedB said:

Er, no? I trust Airfix :D

Thanks Keith for the great photos and Stuart and Ron for the comments :)

I might use a grey primer then and see how it goes...

 

Rear view mirrors? OOB!

Black gloss finish? OOB!

Thanks Bill for the backup! :D

 

Thanks massimo :)

 

Feeling a little fragile after a great lunch yesterday. Canopy masking? I don't think so  :hungover:

I did paint the seal on the inner glazing for the Hawk:

 

38862369170_f07275f770_z.jpg

 

... and the anti-glare:

 

39963264134_f348e231bb_z.jpg

 

The sticky-out bits are also on after some fights with the carpet monster.

 

Then I thought I'd have a go at this:

 

39778138155_844899f879_z.jpg

 

Cut the end off and drilled a small hole in the mount:

 

40631376512_fac2d3408b_z.jpg

 

Glued that into the mount:

 

25802456347_67735969a0_z.jpg

 

Then I slid a shorter piece of larger tube over the top and CA'd it:

 

39963653334_e6c019f22c_z.jpg

 

Quite pleased with that, and with myself for persevering in my current state, self-inflicted though it may be...

What must I repeat after you Dear Ced ???

OOB, did'nt know that there was metal parts included in Airfix kits !!:emo::emo:

I was quite sure that you will have added Something sooner or later !:evil_laugh:

Cheeeeeeers !! :cheers:

Sincerely.

CC 

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I'm feeling guilty now Ced, I had the exactly same problem with mine and I ought to have remembered and warned you  :(

 

I ended up butchering the arrow shape and repainting the red pylon doohickeys white after I have wriggled the damned white pieces into a close copy of the  required position

 

Sharp scalpel blade time

 

Damned thing escaped my memory even though it was hear enough to the surface to remind me I hate the model

 

My curvey stripe down off the fin broke too, like yours did

 

Sorry mate

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On 13/03/2018 at 16:50, giemme said:

You're still in time ... provided that your masks don't overlap the decals you've already placed :whistle:

 

Ciao

Thanks Giorgio - and that time will be well used! I've decided to mask and paint the lines on the bottom... well, most of them :)

23 hours ago, Courageous said:

I would have primed in white, masked off the white areas and then put on the red...just saying:coat:.

22 hours ago, amblypygid said:

Those white areas? Over irregularly curved fuselage and the pylons? Mask and paint, Ced, mask and paint...

Thanks Stuart and Chris - I did think about doing that, especially now I have the vinyl cutter, but the OOBness got the better of me. I'm better now! :)

 

22 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

Oh, the fun of decals...

I am sure that you will find a way around this problem Ced.

Masking and spray, or use the kit decals, it`s a hard choice.

 

Looking  good though, both builds Ced.

 

Simon.

Thanks Simon. I'm going to do a bit of both I think :)

22 hours ago, corsaircorp said:

Aaaaarrghhh !

I no longer can, how can you do that !!

sincerely.

CC

Thanks CC - it's an illness! :D

21 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

I did mine wheels down and flaps deployed, and the wing L shape came as one piece each side.

So count your blessings!

You may find the instructions say apply before fitting the flap pylons.

Notches may be required in the piece along the flaps trailing edges.

And then touch in the appropriate pylon parts in white.

You may need to chop the diagonal line to fit either side of the mid pylon too.

If I can illustrate....

 

[snip picture]

 

Probably said decal before pylons!😃

No, me neither.....

Wouldn't work out 

Thanks Rob :) Nice Hawks! Just checked the instructions and the 1/72 kit doesn't say decals before pylons... I guess that would mean painting everything first?

20 hours ago, S5 modeller said:

Stunning work there Ced old chap. 

One word of warning about using klear to attach the decals/transfers/what ever you want to call them, I've heard it helps them stick well BUT I've also heard that it grabs said transfer/decals instantly with no hope of sliding into position. 

A bit of searching on the forum might be in order, to check my dubious advice. 

 

Matt

18 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

It's not strictly true Matt, it really depends on how much Klear you use. I tend to use a small 'puddle' that sits proud of the surface (difficult to put into words how much really) which does allow the decal to move - if you just brush a thin coat on then it will tend to 'grab' the decal. However, even if it does all is not lost, as you can carefully lift the edge of the decal with a wet brush & let some water under it in order to reposition it, then when happy it's in place you can put some more Klear under it and roll a Klear dampened cotton bud over it to bed it down. Klear doesn't actually dry instantly & I've managed to move decals 3 or 4 minutes after doing the roll over with a cotton bud treatment. But much longer than that and they're on stronger than a limpet!

 

Keith

 

edit - should have said 'wet brush 'if you need to lift the decal.

 

K

Thanks Matt and Keith :) Sounds like one of those proper modeller techniques to me!

20 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

A bit of a stinger about that decal dear boy. A bit late for advice and all that “but” in tricky situations like that stripe I tend to use just water, then slide it to where I want it and let it dry a bit. Then when happy add the micro sol. I know you’re meant to add the micro set to glue them in place but I don’t like too much risk.:fool: Excelent work on tother and fixing the bosted one too.

 

bravo sir.

Thanks Johnny :) I've done the 'just water' tip on the stripes below - worked fine for me.

17 hours ago, bbudde said:

Hello Ced, Sorry to hear about that mishap, but you will fix it in a way, which will be enjoyable for you. I would like to give you some tips (advice?) , but I can't as I haven't done these things for more than quite a while. But for god sake, there are so many other very kind people here on bm, who (will/can) support you with these difficulties. My respect.  Cheers

Thanks Benedikt :)

 

17 hours ago, perdu said:

I'm feeling guilty now Ced, I had the exactly same problem with mine and I ought to have remembered and warned you  :(

 

I ended up butchering the arrow shape and repainting the red pylon doohickeys white after I have wriggled the damned white pieces into a close copy of the  required position

 

Sharp scalpel blade time

 

Damned thing escaped my memory even though it was hear enough to the surface to remind me I hate the model

 

My curvey stripe down off the fin broke too, like yours did

 

Sorry mate

Thanks Bill - no need to feel guilty mate and nice to know better modellers than I had the same problem! :)

 

 

One of our daughters is staying for a couple of nights so a bit of an update only.

I've decided to try a mix on the bottom (fnaar!) by using the transfers for the tricky-to-mask bit down the back but to paint the main 'triangle' and pylons things. If that's to work I need some paint that matches well:

 

39913627065_638ff4e675_z.jpg

 

Can you see where I've painted ON the decal? No? Good!

 

10849919_915341385150266_803908431794924

 

Tricky stripes and roundels applied and Daco strong blobbed on:

 

40099344984_c62f2c8742_z.jpg

 

More tomorrow.

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You will get there no worries

 

Oh yes, came home from the wake to find the parcel thanks

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3 hours ago, CedB said:

Sounds like one of those proper modeller techniques to me!

 

Ha,ha,ha - 'proper modeller techniques' - no Ced, no - I use it all the time!! 'Proper modeller techniques'....ha,ha,ha....!! :)

 

Keith

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Ced, that looks very convincing.  A bit dirty, but I like it  ( Passt schon so!!).  It`'s owed to that,  you haven't primed it with some sort of white before. Only grey. Tell me, how do I know.:whistle:  Anyway looks great :goodjob:. Cheers

Edited by bbudde

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Thanks Bill :) Not my parcel though... hopefully I'll get to the Post Office today (sorry!)

Keith you're too modest - we all know who the proper modellers are! :)

Thanks Benedikt :) Yes, a bit dirty - I like it too!

 

 

I was pleasantly surprised how that white matched the transfers... would it hide the holes in the roundels and the cracks in the side stripe?

 

39009764110_78c9a0e3b4_z.jpg

 

39009767140_959bf26360_z.jpg

 

39009770740_cffa52ab1b_z.jpg

 

That's a yes then!

(Two photos of the side stripe in case you think I 'managed' the camera angle)

 

All I need to do now is mask this:

 

40111041304_866f90a46a_z.jpg

 

Er... over the pylons? Straight across the back of the intakes? Oh ha ha ha...

I think I can manage to brush paint the flaps and backs of the pylon things without straying too much, but I'm pretty sure it'll be almost impossible really hard to mask. Brush paint then, saves Humbrol acrylic problems in the airbrush.

 

I've made a start:

 

39009965630_ae0e9a9ddf_z.jpg

 

No, the thin tape isn't burnished down.

No, I don't know how I'm going to make it look straight over the intake.

No, I can't move it back a bit or the other side of the 'point' will be on the lumpy bit on the bottom.

Maybe I could use the decals for the pointy fronts?

Nightmare... I shall ponder.

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Now that you know that your white paint is a good match, would not the cut transfer method be the best bet? If it didn't work then you could revert to the masking plan, nothing lost.

 

John.

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Thanks John - great minds think alike... :)

 

Carefully cut down the 'inner edge' of the transfers:

 

25949100647_6d89072308_z.jpg

 

... so it looks as though that'll work. On with the transfers and Deco strong:

 

39010415000_8bfa3bb8c6_z.jpg

 

Easy to line up the back against the doors and the front on the seam line (what's THAT doing there? Ho hum)

It's also shown up the fact that the tape is in the wrong place - I'll line that up later.

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On 3/13/2018 at 10:40 PM, keefr22 said:

 

It's not strictly true Matt, it really depends on how much Klear you use. I tend to use a small 'puddle' that sits proud of the surface (difficult to put into words how much really) which does allow the decal to move - if you just brush a thin coat on then it will tend to 'grab' the decal. However, even if it does all is not lost, as you can carefully lift the edge of the decal with a wet brush & let some water under it in order to reposition it, then when happy it's in place you can put some more Klear under it and roll a Klear dampened cotton bud over it to bed it down. Klear doesn't actually dry instantly & I've managed to move decals 3 or 4 minutes after doing the roll over with a cotton bud treatment. But much longer than that and they're on stronger than a limpet!

 

Keith

 

edit - should have said 'wet brush 'if you need to lift the decal.

 

K

Pretty much everything Keith said - I've used Klear for longer than I care to remember, and have successfully applied decals over lumps, bumps and curves, into recesses and around corners, with only the occasional mishap....

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Fine work mate. I'm not sure what colour you used for the primer but always found Pink to be the best colour for undercoating red paint.

red is a terrible colour for coverage in my experience. If you use grey the red looks dull. If you use white it looks patchy and pale. But pink seems to bring it together. 

Also Brown under red seems to deepen it if your looking for a crimson colour on something. 

 

Cant wait to see these finished got a few hawks and gnats on the stash that need doing soon. 

 

Cheers Rob :) 

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Thanks Andy - great tip :)

 

Rob! I'm sorry I'd missed your return to BM but I've caught up with your great builds now... welcome back mate, you were missed!

I'd used grey primer for these... yes, it does make it look dull and slightly dirty, but I quite like it. Pink next time :)

 

Masking tape on (and off and then on again in the right place), burnished down and first coat brushed on:

 

40795778952_7f8d9034c6_z.jpg

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2 minutes ago, CedB said:

Pink next time :)

 

 

I already said Ced - do as Ferrari do! :winkgrin:

 

Keith

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5 hours ago, CedB said:

Thanks Andy - great tip :)

 

Rob! I'm sorry I'd missed your return to BM but I've caught up with your great builds now... welcome back mate, you were missed!

I'd used grey primer for these... yes, it does make it look dull and slightly dirty, but I quite like it. Pink next time :)

 

Masking tape on (and off and then on again in the right place), burnished down and first coat brushed on:

 

40795778952_7f8d9034c6_z.jpg

 

Thanks mate nice to know im

missed haha. An I thought I bet they would be glad to be shut of me and tin triangles.

 

No criticism they look great it's just I was reading back and you said you was having trouble with coverage and I wondered what colour primer you used. 

 

If your looking for depth of colour then you got it just harder to work for. 

 

Im not sure what colour to do my hawk. I'll probably go for the camo option. 

But they do look wonderful in red.

 

cheers Rob :)

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5 hours ago, CedB said:

first coat brushed on:

Ced, brush painting white is as tough as airbrushing it in terms of coverage, if not even more. You'd better brush on an off-white (mix your white with a few drops of light grey) undercoat first, or you risk to go on forever and have a very thick and uneven white layer

 

HTH

 

Ciao

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I always find that Humbrol 166 light aircraft great. It covers really well and makes it easy to add white over the top. 

 

Rob

Edited by robvulcan

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Thanks Keith - go brmmm brmmm? :D

Thanks Rob - I'd used Stynylrez grey primer (great stuff if you haven't tried it yet). It's not that much darker than light aircraft grey (maybe):

 

40686703951_eb92978a0c_z.jpg

 

 

Thanks Giorgio :) I think you're right, I'll be here all night... coat 2:

 

40801195222_db3d7b22db_z.jpg

 

So I took your tip and swapped to Vallejo Model (i.e. NOT Air) Off White and that covered much better:

 

40134627164_ed3266cd34_z.jpg

 

Probably needs another coat of H22 for the colour match but then I'm hoping that'll be it.

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Now we're talking! :clap:

 

Ciao

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Thanks Giorgio :)

 

...and now we're finished:

 

39950472455_bc49792bc2_z.jpg

 

I'll let that dry overnight (out this evening) and then I can finish the transfers in the morning.

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