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I may be wrong but I find this very strange.

Russian official sources last year declared that the first aircrafts would have entered limited service in 2018, and we know that whenever an aircraft enters service the first units are tasked with developing tactics and training personnel. This means that a new type would not be really operational for another couple of years after the first aircrafts are accepted by the user.

The last prototype of the Su-57 flew less than one year ago, with what is considered to be the one in the final configuration also flying in late 2017. Based on this I'd say that a proper entry into service is more likely to be in late 2018.

Now some are claiming that 2 aircrafts of a type that is not operatonal yet have been deployed in a war theatre ? To do what ? Again I may be wrong but I feel that this is either a hoax or the Russians are trying to impress someone by claiming the Su-57 is operational even if this is not true. If they really brought two aircrafts to Syria, it's likely to be more a propaganda move than else. Of course it would also be a risky move, imagine if one is destroyed in a mortar attack or similar...

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4 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

I may be wrong but I find this very strange.

Russian official sources last year declared that the first aircrafts would have entered limited service in 2018, and we know that whenever an aircraft enters service the first units are tasked with developing tactics and training personnel. This means that a new type would not be really operational for another couple of years after the first aircrafts are accepted by the user.

The last prototype of the Su-57 flew less than one year ago, with what is considered to be the one in the final configuration also flying in late 2017. Based on this I'd say that a proper entry into service is more likely to be in late 2018.

Now some are claiming that 2 aircrafts of a type that is not operatonal yet have been deployed in a war theatre ? To do what ? Again I may be wrong but I feel that this is either a hoax or the Russians are trying to impress someone by claiming the Su-57 is operational even if this is not true. If they really brought two aircrafts to Syria, it's likely to be more a propaganda move than else. Of course it would also be a risky move, imagine if one is destroyed in a mortar attack or similar...

 

I agree, does seem like this is some propaganda,  highly doubt they are in anyway operational. 

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This is not something new, two Ka-50 were operationally tested in Chechnya in 1999 (?) 

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2 hours ago, Jabba said:

Were the development Su-25s used in Afghanistan in the 80s?

Exactly!

Besides tests of Su-25 to Afghanistan tested also Yak-38 prototypes in the eighties!
So it is really normal practice.


Besides it will be used as advertizing in advance of Su-57 in the market of the Middle East, Asia, and perhaps South America.

 

B.R.

Serge

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Hello

Fully loaded, Yak-38 literally did not make it off the ground in Afghanistan. Pre-series single-seat Kamovs (which I personally prefer to Ka-52s) did fly combat missions during the second Chechnya war, which could be regarded as suitable combat evaluation environment for such an aircraft. In a way, this could be also said for Syria and Su-57. Most of the regional air forces would be tempted to compete, shall we say, with the new fighter and I am certain that two of them could not resist such a challenge. Still, in my opinion this deployment is a publicity stunt and new fighters are either going to sit on the ground, closely guarded by ground forces and AA defences, or leave for home soon. Cheers

Jure

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The Yak-38s tested in Afganistan were not prototypes, they were production machines and the type had been in service for at least 4 years before being deployed to that theatre.

The Su-25s were indeed prototypes, so maybe nothing unusual... however Afghanistan in 1980 was different from Syria today. Any mission over Syria would have to carefully avoid a lot of potential threats, navigation has to be perfect to avoid straggling into someone else's air defence system and in any case any mission would be right under the eye of USAF radar and ELINT aircrafts. Not really the ideal situation in which do some kind of evaluation.

If we add that very few weapons seem to have been approved for use on the Su-57 at the moment, it all looks more like a propaganda mission to me.

 

Edited by Giorgio N

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On 2/22/2018 at 7:19 PM, Giorgio N said:

 To do what ?

 

Generate content for Russia Today. See also the Kuznetsov "deployment".

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Maybe also a move to counter or at least make US attacks like on the supposed Russian mercenaries 2 weeks ago more risky? At least to react to it in a way... muscle flexing...

Edited by exdraken

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I agree its strange to think they're more than showing off. However It was a common practice at one time in the USAF to send prototypes to combat zones to see how the prototype worked under real life conditions. Its entirely possible the Russians are attempting to test these two aircraft. Maybe to see if they can handle a combat environment and see how the West Reacts ? Or is it possible they're just countering the use of F-22’s in theatre ? My honest opinion and personally i think its a test to see how the type handles operating from a forward base in a combat zone ? 

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle

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On 23.02.2018 at 11:26 AM, Giorgio N said:

The Yak-38s tested in Afganistan were not prototypes, they were production machines and the type had been in service for at least 4 years before being deployed to that theatre.

I have incorrectly translated the term "trial operation"- "опытная эксплуатация".


Yes, on the website airwar

http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/yak38-2/yak38-2.html

it is written:
"Very few people know that such purely deck plane as Yak-38 before revenues to arms has managed to do some fighting in Afghanistan."


What can be treated as prototypes if I wanted to be engaged manipulation.


But, first I rather not bad know the author of the text on the reference personally therefore what is written to them I treat with big scepticism.
Especially as on the Russian website to expose the data stated in this article about detail crush Yak-38 in Afganistan as a lie:
http://forums.airforce.ru/holodnaya-voina/3600-chitayu-pro-dh-k-38-v-afgane-i-v-somneniyah/
Secondly, according to registers of Yak-38

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Список_штурмовиков_Як-38#

to Afghanistan were
plane of the ninth production party.
That is serial.
 

On 23.02.2018 at 11:26 AM, Giorgio N said:

Any mission over Syria would have to carefully avoid a lot of potential threats, navigation has to be perfect to avoid straggling into someone else's air defence system and in any case any mission would be right under the eye of USAF radar and ELINT aircrafts. Not really the ideal situation in which do some kind of evaluation.

1. Eye of USAF, Israel OTAN e.t.c radar and ELINT aircrafts, it's best for test Su-57 and other military equipment!

;)

2. As say Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson  in a future war against a near peer rival, they should be prepared to fight without technologies that most consider essential, like GPS navigation and satellite phone lines.

http://spacenews.com/wilson-airmen-must-get-creative-if-they-want-to-beat-china-and-russia/

 

It means that in the future can happen so that the systems of radio-electronic fight will reach such perfection that the pilot should believe only on the eyes, the gun and maneuverability of the fighter.

 

B.w., and you remember as until recently analysts went on a "Dog fight is dead!"???

:):)

 

 

Meanwhile, claim that to Syria have arrived 2 more SU-57.

https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4013415.html#comments

348951.jpg


If it is the truth, then total number of Su-57 group in Syria 4 planes.

 

B.R.

Serge

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6 hours ago, Aardvark said:

 

 

Meanwhile, claim that to Syria have arrived 2 more SU-57.

https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4013415.html#comments

 


If it is the truth, then total number of Su-57 group in Syria 4 planes.

 

B.R.

Serge

!!! out of how many in total? 8?

 

one without radar (51?) one with 2 different engines (...117..)...

 

wonder what is left in Russia then!

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14 minutes ago, exdraken said:

out of how many in total? 8?

 

one without radar (51?) one with 2 different engines (...117..)...

 

wonder what is left in Russia then!

Do you consider that Russia was left absolutely without air defense?

:)

6 hours ago, Aardvark said:

It means that in the future can happen so that the systems of radio-electronic fight will reach such perfection that the pilot should believe only on the eyes, the gun and maneuverability of the fighter.

:)

I here that has thought. :)


When the systems of radio-electronic warfire become so perfect what to block firing from the plane gun, Su-57 will have an indisputable advantage against F-35, F-22 and e.t.c.!

 

His pilot will be able to remove a canopy back and to bring down F-22 or F-35 from personal gun Makarov/Stechkin or mini-Kalashnikov AK-74U as it was in World War I war!!!!

:):)

And the pilot of F-22 or F-35 won't be able to open a canopy in flight!!! :):)

Then only Harrier and first navy jet

with his open back canopy from museums and private collection  save World  from Su-57!!!!

:):)
..... there still a elevator and rudder cables control has to be provided in Su-57, on a case if the systems of radio-electronic warfire are able to disconnect to fly-by-wire system!
:):)

 

B.R.

Serge

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19 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

Do you consider that Russia was left absolutely without air defense?

:)

:)

 

NO!

 

Just Su-57 wise for testing I meant! 

I assume they sent the 4 best and most capable planes out of around 8 in total....

 

will be interesting to see what comes from this deployement! (analoge to Su-33 and MiG-29K carrier deployments recently.....)

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15 hours ago, exdraken said:

I assume they sent the 4 best and most capable planes out of around 8 in total....

You have old information!

"earlier within developmental work on the project PAK-FA 12 planes have been made, 10 of which now actively participate in flight tests."

From an interview 20 feb.2018 the Deputy Minister of Defence Yury Borisov during the visit on aircraft factory of Yu.A. Gagarin in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.
Resource:

http://vg-news.ru/n/132974

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

Edited by Aardvark

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Hello

The first two pre-series aircraft are to enter regular military service in 2019, if I understood the article correctly. Sounds quite ambitious. Two different camouflages are also evident. I like the pixelized one from the upper photo.

Just curious, are there any at least half-decent kits of Su-57 in 1/72 around? Cheers

Jure

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Yeah.8, or 10  

I just remember only 51 to 59... one burnt (55?) and way used to build another one. One is a static test airframe if I remember correctly!

 

17 minutes ago, Jure Miljevic said:

 

Just curious, are there any at least half-decent kits of Su-57 in 1/72 around? Cheers

Jure

There is a very decent multi media kit in ~ 1/48 by hph... 

 

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30 minutes ago, Jure Miljevic said:

Just curious, are there any at least half-decent kits of Su-57 in 1/72 around?

Only resin kit, second edition, from "Resin Magazine"- NeOmega, but she sold big money as for little model in 72nd (about 100$) and don't make long time.

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_58277.html

2-st edition built:

http://scalemodels.ru/articles/4868-Rezin-Magazin-1-72-pak-fa-sukhojj-t-50-2.html

1-st edition built:

http://scalemodels.ru/articles/5676-Resin-magazin-1-72-pak-fa-t-50.html

Zvezda & HobbyBoss it's bad model on geometry characteristics.

15 minutes ago, exdraken said:

I just remember only 51 to 59...

Correctly: 

"only 051 to 059..."

+ 510 & 511.

Talk in Syria 059 & 511.

B.R.

Serge

  

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Hello

Exdraken, Su-57 in 1/48 is a bit too large for my glass cabinet. Serge, that resin kit looks impressive. Certainly worth its price, although at the moment slightly out of my reach. Thanks to both of you. Cheers

Jure

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1 hour ago, Jure Miljevic said:

Hello

Exdraken, Su-57 in 1/48 is a bit too large for my glass cabinet. Serge, that resin kit looks impressive. Certainly worth its price, although at the moment slightly out of my reach. Thanks to both of you. Cheers

Jure

 

sorry, here is one in plastic!

Zvezda T-50!

 

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/121582-zvezda-7275-sukhoi-su-50-t-50

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook/Zvezda/Suchoi_Su-50/Zvezda_Su-50.html

 

 

Edited by exdraken

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Hello, Exdraken

Serge mentioned inaccuracies of both Zvezda and HobbyBoss kits. I know I said earlier I would settle for a half-decent kit but that resin Su-57 kit photos whetted my appetite ... Cheers

Jure

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1 hour ago, Jure Miljevic said:

inaccuracies of both Zvezda and HobbyBoss

36 pages talking about Zvezda:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_25401.html

Attempt of the person who has created the best drawings (before MiG-29 Zvezda era) on MiG-29 9-13:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_10319_start_0.html

to make the correct T-50 from Zvezda:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_32097.html

The attempt is unfinished.

B.R.

Serge

Edited by Aardvark

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