Bullbasket Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 A method that I've seen tried before, and the results were good, was to use an old horse hair paint brush with most of the bristles removed. The stiffness of the bristles allows you to drag across the surface and leave "scratches". John. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 What are you doing about ammo feed for the hungry minigun? I see you have the Live flexi feed chute, and you have plenty of standard 7.62 and 12.7mm cans in the vehicle. But the feed chutes needed to be attached to something at the bottom, generally a special fitting on the ammo container. Miniguns also need powered feeds, incorporated into the box attachment, as they don't have the power to lift/pull the long length of belt generally used with of the high rate of fire. A standard 250rd 7.62mm can would only last for 3-9 seconds firing, and reloading through the flexi chutes and the de-linker is a lot more fiddly and time-consuming than - for example - reloading a "normal" belt-feed MG. So you'd want to minimise reloading. I imagine the Minigun was scavenged from army aviation, maybe a downed helicopter (that looks like a Huey door mount), as it wasn't a general ground issue weapon in Vietnam. So I'm wondering if your vehicle might also have had a helicopter ammo box (1500/3000rds?) and powered feeder fitted. But that's a big box and fitting it internally so that it rotated with the cupola could be difficult and might limit traverse. Fitting it in the hull in a fixed location would likewise limit traverse because of the flexible feed chute. It doesn't look like there's an ammo box mounted externally on the cupola on the real vehicle, although a 1500rd box probably could be mounted there: it's only 6 standard cans' worth. It needs power too. I believe Live also make a large (3000rd?) ammo box and feeder, but it might be too large and too modern. At a push, it might be possible to feed from a 250rd can next to the gun directly into the de-linker without using the feed chute - noting the very limited firing time. In the side-on photo of the real vehicle you can just see the ribbed ejection tube, which Live also do. There was a vast amount of brass and links to clear and a fat ribbed tube was usual. BTW, the ammo cans on the floor in one of the photos are probably there for additional mine blast protection and are probably filled with sand or soil. Sandbags were used too but weren't very durable with guys clambering in and out. Putting live ammo on the floor would have considerably increased the frag hazard in the event of an explosive penetration. The other picture with cans stacked on the benches will be live ammo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etienne Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Das Abteilung said: What are you doing about ammo feed for the hungry minigun? Hi, on the first period photo of this thread, we can see what appears to be big ammo cans on the top of the hull next to the minigun ... probably the best place to have the ammo on hand, isn't it ? Cheers, E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Nearly all the Vietnam minigun fitted M113's have seen had what looks like a 40mm ammo can or two on the roof to the right side of the cupola. This is the look I will be going for. I have also seen one picture of the minigun mounted on the back right ACAV position where I have mounted the .50 cal. Minigun on the back 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 I made up some thinned enamel last night from a 20+ year old pot of Humbrol and gave it a test. It by far the best results so far but I'm still not 100% happy. If I can't crack this I think I'll just leave off the scratches and move on with the weathering. Hopefully I'll get time to post pictures of my results later for you all to see and give your feedback on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) Right. Here we go guys. My attempt at making scratches to simulate the vehicle driving through dense jungle. One of the weathering layers you see on most Vietnam M113's are scratches down the sides. This has proved a real challenge to replicate. The randomness, dense concentration and small size have been a pain that I have failed to overcome. Firstly sponge chipping technique dragged over the surface. This failed as the paint would not drag far enough or would put too much paint down in a small area looking more like a smudge. IMAG5195 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Next up trying the sponge technique replacing the sponge foam with a piece of scotch brite. This worked better but still not 100%. IMAG5244 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Third time unlucky I tried the placing a piece of Tamiya tape down and hand painting as thin a line as possible against the tape. With this I could not get the lines thin enough and the straightness was also unappealing. This would work well for maybe one or two heavy scratches down each side. Finally the most promising technique I found. Knocking up a thinned enamel mix from a two decade old pot of Humbrol and using it in the same was as AK / Ammo streaking product. I started the colour light (Humbrol 117) but found after thinning and pulling even further via the streaking it was too light. So about four colours later I ended up with a green (Humbrol 116 or 163) that is a very close match to the base acrylic olive drab. I also like the look of Humbrol 155 which is olive drab but has a slightly brown shade to it. Overall this is by far my favourite way but I feel still not what I'm trying to achieve. Early test with Humbrol 117. I quite like the effect here though as it hasn't been worked / streaked too much. IMAG5233 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5238 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Here are three colours I tested in different areas all blended together. I forgot to get a picture of them all separate. These have been over worked and are too populated where there is a lack of definition and separation. IMAG5239 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Right now I'm in two minds. 1: Forget about scratches, move on with the weathering including the mud down the side which will be scratched in areas. 2: Try the enamel streaking method in certain areas like the front and back corners while trying to keep it more defined lines. Not sure what to do. Alternatively there is the pencil option like Dads203 suggested. I'm just doubting my competency level to do this. It would also require the time to find and purchase a decent pencil or three in various shades of green / brown. Edited May 24, 2018 by snapper_city 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) I'm hoping I've caught you in time with regards to the scratches on the side panels....... If this was my model I'd forget about trying to replicate scratches using paint effects and do the most logical thing... and that is to actually scratch it! I'd use some old ruined brushes - you know, the ones where you forget to clean them and the bristles are stuck together and rock hard - crack and split the bristles apart randomly, with some areas separated more than others. I'd press the brush flat, (side on) and quite hard against the vehicle and twist it whilst dragging it along the paint surface . The scratches will be sublte in places and more obvious in others. Personally I wouldn't colour the scratches with washes or dry brushing or such like. These are predominantly surface scratches and so I'd just let ambient light do the work of bringing the scratches out. They will naturally look lighter than the original colour. Of course, some dirt/dust may cover some of the scrathces, and more scratching may occur over the top of the latest dirt/dust. In other words, try a few SUBTLE layers of dirt/dust vs scratches. Hope that helps, Rearguards, Badder Edited May 24, 2018 by Badder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Have you tried using a soft brass wire brush ? Make sure its a softer one not stiff. A stiff one will damage the paint more than your looking for. Dragging it lightly should give you some decent scratches ? Dennis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Just now, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Have you tried using a soft brass wire brush ? Make sure its a softer one not stiff. A stiff one will damage the paint more than your looking for. Dragging it lightly should give you some decent scratches ? Dennis Hi Dennis, hope you are well? I've just had a telling off from my diabetes nurse. 😕 Ho hum! I've tried using wire brushes etc, but have found that the effects are too regimented, what with the bristles being all identical in stiffness and thickness and being distributed evenly. A ruined brush with clumps of bristles stuck together randomly will er.... ramdomize.... all those factors and make for more realistic scratches IMHO. Twisting the brush now and then will in effect create an entirely 'new' tool, imparting completely different scratches, just like rubbing up against different bits of jungle will create different scratches. Rearguards, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 36 minutes ago, Badder said: hope you are well? I've just had a telling off from my diabetes nurse. 😕 Ho hum! Im sorry to hear about that. Nothing to serious im hoping. Anything i can help with ? As for me Im doing ok not great but ok with my diabetes. My #’s have been doing a plateau thing lately. I guess that is better than the rolling hills i was getting after easter ? As for the wire brush idea. Your ideas are truly what i was trying to express but didn't get it across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolay Polyakov Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Amazing build here, @snapper_city! Very inspirational Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 16 hours ago, Badder said: I'm hoping I've caught you in time with regards to the scratches on the side panels....... If this was my model I'd forget about trying to replicate scratches using paint effects and do the most logical thing... and that is to actually scratch it! I'd use some old ruined brushes - you know, the ones where you forget to clean them and the bristles are stuck together and rock hard - crack and split the bristles apart randomly, with some areas separated more than others. I'd press the brush flat, (side on) and quite hard against the vehicle and twist it whilst dragging it along the paint surface . The scratches will be sublte in places and more obvious in others. Personally I wouldn't colour the scratches with washes or dry brushing or such like. These are predominantly surface scratches and so I'd just let ambient light do the work of bringing the scratches out. They will naturally look lighter than the original colour. Of course, some dirt/dust may cover some of the scrathces, and more scratching may occur over the top of the latest dirt/dust. In other words, try a few SUBTLE layers of dirt/dust vs scratches. Hope that helps, Rearguards, Badder That sounds like an interesting way to do it. I'll have to give it a go in testing. Unfortunately though I have already clear coated the sides with aqua gloss so think I have ruined my chance to try that on this build. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Right, pencils. Tonight I gave the sides a flat coat and then got to work with a grey Faber - Castell pencil. I am happy with the result but not happy with myself for rushing the second side. Side one. IMAG5247 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Side two. This side I felt was too much so I rubbed it back a bit with a cotton bud. This has left a sort of smudged effect which I'm not massively happy about. After looking at the pics I have gone back in with the pencil to make a few more stark again. IMAG5246 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Next will probably be a clear coat before decals. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 Road wheels black rims painted today and the whole model given a coat of aqua gloss. I'll give it 24 hours before starting on the decals. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soeren Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I guess you put on a nice green ochre filter and it looks like it should 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 33 minutes ago, Soeren said: I guess you put on a nice green ochre filter and it looks like it should 🤔 No filter yet. I was probably going to go straight in with oils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Hi Mark, I would think that the 'ruined brush' idea would still work over the varnish... maybe even better, because a filter/wash would run into the scratches in the gloss layer? Whatever, I think the pencils have done a good job and will look great after the washes. Rearguards, Badder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 Decals are on. They went down ok and were ok to work but they have settled like they have air bubbles trapped underneath. Possible silvering issue but there is no air underneath. It's possibly a patchy top coat. I'll see how they look tomorrow before deciding if they need more work. I have laid a spare decal on a paint mule for testing if required. Pictures tomorrow if I get time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 Quick update guys. Decal time. The AFV Club decals went onto the model and moved well but they are thick like Tamiya decals. They also had a mottled gloss / matt finish across each decal. This left a look like silvering in places. This is defiantly not silvering though as I rubbed down the gloss coat in preparation and it was silky smooth. I laid a couple of unused decals onto a scrap model to test things. Firstly I tried glossing over but that just sealed in a silvered looking decal. I also ran a rivet tool over the dry decal and then applied more decal solution but this made no difference. Lastly and my final solution was to lightly scrape the surface of the decal with a craft knife blade to remove the gloss areas leaving a uniform surface. This is delicate work and I chipped a couple of the decals in the process. IMAG5250 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Here they are after a layer of aqua gloss. You can see how thick they are. IMAG5269 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5270 by Mark Inman, on Flickr I then gave the decals about 5-6 layers of aqua gloss to raise the surrounding surface and sanded them down to try level things out. They are not perfect but are an acceptable level. IMAG5271 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5272 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Next I turned my attention back to the weapons. I was not happy with the gun metal paint finish I had before. They looked too light and unrealistic in my eyes. They have been lightly sprayed matt black and dusted with gun metal pigments. I feel this is a much better look for them. Before IMAG4932 by Mark Inman, on Flickr After IMAG5273 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5275 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5276 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5278 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5279 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5280 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5281 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5282 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Next up the dark arts of weathering. I have also taken a short break from the M113. I have been working solely on this kit since the beginning of the year and felt like I needed a mojo reload. I have built an Eduard 1:48 Bell X-1 over the last week and it is already mid painting stage. A nice easy build that I will have finished in the next week. I will then be diving straight back into the M113 as I am already feeling rejuvenated and have a good idea what I want to achieve with the weathering. Until then...... 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Shumsky Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Somehow missed this build but just caught up and lovely work ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Those weapons look really good. Great job with the weathering. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted June 29, 2018 Author Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) Hey guys I managed to snag a couple of days off work this week so used it to full effect. The Bell X-1 is finished and in the cabinet so back on with the M113. On with weathering and its pigments time. Here the roof which I feel needs some more attention. IMAG5541_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5542_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5543_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5544_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Kudo's to AFV Club. They have got the tracks right for the M113. 64 links on the right and 63 on the left. Even so we are still using Fruil's. IMAG5546_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5547_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5548_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr Fruil's burnished. I followed the process of wash them in soapy water with a toothbrush and allow to fully dry. Then a bath in IPA for 90 seconds and again allowed to fully dry. Next was a bath in white vinegar for 10 minutes. Finally a bath in Mig / AK (I can't remember which one) Burnishing fluid. IMAG5549_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr On with more pigments. Here I used a strip of plasticard to cover the areas on the tracks where the road wheels make contact. This will save me clean up time later. IMAG5555_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr IMAG5558_1 by Mark Inman, on Flickr That's all for now. Edited June 29, 2018 by snapper_city 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Slowly getting there and looking well used Beefy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etienne Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 20 hours ago, snapper_city said: Hey guys I managed to snag a couple of days off work this week so used it to full effect. The Bell X-1 is finished and in the cabinet so back on with the M113. On with weathering and its pigments time. Hi Snapper_city, how did you apply the pigments on the hull and roadwheels ? Cheers, E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Etienne said: Hi Snapper_city, how did you apply the pigments on the hull and roadwheels ? Cheers, E The underside and around the tracks on the lower hull I made a mix of pigments and added enamel thinners to make it into a liquid. This was hand painted on then allowed to dry. They were then blended downwards using cotton buds, make up sponges and foam on a stick. No idea what to call these but they came from the Tamiya weathering palette. The front hull face had small streaks and small areas applied then streaked downwards with a wide flat brush moistened in enamel thinners. The roof, tracks and wheels had a sprinkling of pigments dropped on to a dry surface. Then with an enamel soaked paint brush I dabbed over the pigments letting capillary action spread the thinners over the whole surface. Once dry I then blur them as required using cotton buds, make up sponges, dry paint brushes and the Tamiya foam stick again. The pigments will still come off and leave finger prints if touched so have since given these areas a coat of Testors Dullcote to seal them in . This has muted the pigments which I wasn't expecting but I quite like the result. I'll post pictures in the next update. Also the tracks are now attached as of this morning. Edited July 1, 2018 by snapper_city 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now