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Hey all, got a question for you.

 

Did Soviet tanks in the 80s period use a particular colour as a primer (much like the Germans did with red oxide) and what was the primary green they used? I have the Mig Ammo ZASHCHITNIY ZELENO, which was mentioned as being the colour for the vehicles in that time, but it seems more...browny than green, so I was just wanting to specificy, particularly since Trumpeter often suggests using 303 Green for Soviet tanks or equipment of that period, which is decidedly more green in colour.

 

Being Russian vehicles I imagine they used a mishmash of greens and camouflage, but I'm particularly curious about the most common known colour for them, as well as any known schemes used in the Afghan theatre, particularly on T-62s and Zil-131 trucks. 

 

Cheers.

 

Gaz :)

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3 hours ago, GazB said:

Did Soviet tanks in the 80s period use a particular colour as a primer (much like the Germans did with red oxide) and what was the primary green they used? I have the Mig Ammo ZASHCHITNIY ZELENO, which was mentioned as being the colour for the vehicles in that time, but it seems more...browny than green, so I was just wanting to specificy, particularly since Trumpeter often suggests using 303 Green for Soviet tanks or equipment of that period, which is decidedly more green in colour.

As I can judge by the message of the user Organik, placed in a topic:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?p=918745&highlight=#918745

1380557798_1.jpg

original photo resource:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_918780_1380557798_1.jpg.html


T-80UD tank
"object 478B" "Birch"
made in HBKM the camouflage, from 1985 years old and high, consisting from had to be painted in a 3-color:
- KhS-5146 enamel green-protective TU-6-10-12-75-85;
- KhS-5146 enamel
gray-yellow
- black KhS-5146TO enamel 
TU-6-10-12-75-85.
It is the factory instruction.
What equivalent of these paints at producers of paints for modellers, I don't know.

 

3 hours ago, GazB said:

Being Russian vehicles I imagine they used a mishmash of greens and camouflage, but I'm particularly curious about the most common known colour for them, as well as any known schemes used in the Afghan theatre, particularly on T-62s and Zil-131 trucks. 

The similar topic in Russian was here:
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_70488.html


1501960065_4_Mz_GZp_GEF-_M.jpg

 

original photo resource:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1403852_1501960065_4MzGZpGEF-M.jpg.html


In the same place there was also a photo of this T-62 dated as 1980, Mount Hindu Kush, Afghanistan.

As Scalemodels.ru has aviation accent more, the topic hasn't gained big development. Besides in a topic there is a lot of flood and unchecked information.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S. Some wrong with postimage. 

Edited by Aardvark
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11 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

As I can judge by the message of the user Organik, placed in a topic:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?p=918745&highlight=#918745

 

 

original photo resource:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_918780_1380557798_1.jpg.html


T-80UD tank
"object 478B" "Birch"
made in HBKM the camouflage, from 1985 years old and high, consisting from had to be painted in a 3-color:
- KhS-5146 enamel green-protective TU-6-10-12-75-85;
- KhS-5146 enamel
gray-yellow
- black KhS-5146TO enamel 
TU-6-10-12-75-85.
It is the factory instruction.
What equivalent of these paints at producers of paints for modellers, I don't know.

 

The similar topic in Russian was here:
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_70488.html

 

original photo resource:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1403852_1501960065_4MzGZpGEF-M.jpg.html


In the same place there was also a photo of this T-62 dated as 1980, Mount Hindu Kush, Afghanistan.

As Scalemodels.ru has aviation accent more, the topic hasn't gained big development. Besides in a topic there is a lot of flood and unchecked information.

 

That's very helpful, Aardvark, thank you ^-^

 

KhS-5146 appears to be Mig Ammo Green Khaki, which I also picked up. That pic of the T-62 also looks exactly like the Tamiya T-62 I have in terms of setup. 

 

Cheers :D

 

Gaz

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43 minutes ago, GazB said:

That's very helpful, Aardvark, thank you ^-^

 

KhS-5146 appears to be Mig Ammo Green Khaki, which I also picked up. That pic of the T-62 also looks exactly like the Tamiya T-62 I have in terms of setup. 

 

Cheers :D

 

Gaz

But reading topics on scalemodels.ru, I haven't understood, than painted the equipment during the period from 60th years when there was a refusal of 4BO, to the middle of the 80th when have appeared KhS-5146.
And I don't know, coloring in KhS-5146

 it is fair only for T-80UD or and for other equipment of the USSR?

However I don't understand these questions absolutely, have just seen your topic, and have remembered that I once read something on this subject.

 

B.R.

Serge

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2 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

But reading topics on scalemodels.ru, I haven't understood, than painted the equipment during the period from 60th years when there was a refusal of 4BO, to the middle of the 80th when have appeared KhS-5146.
And I don't know, coloring in KhS-5146

 it is fair only for T-80UD or and for other equipment of the USSR?

However I don't understand these questions absolutely, have just seen your topic, and have remembered that I once read something on this subject.

 

B.R.

Serge

Judging from Mig Ammo's description on their paint sets, the likes of grey yellow and black were used as part of camo schemes. The AK Real Colors Russian set also contains grey yellow, black, and grey green, in addition to a modern green. I think they did utilise a three-tone scheme at this time, but I'm not sure for the Afghan theatre. They mostly seemed to be green, or two-tone with green and sand.

 

Gaz

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3 hours ago, GazB said:

Judging from Mig Ammo's description on their paint sets, the likes of grey yellow and black were used as part of camo schemes. The AK Real Colors Russian set also contains grey yellow, black, and grey green, in addition to a modern green. I think they did utilise a three-tone scheme at this time, but I'm not sure for the Afghan theatre. They mostly seemed to be green, or two-tone with green and sand.

The problem is that as Alexander Akanikhin speaks, the owner AKAN, factory professional the chip Soviet a color possesses standards only he. The others, from his words, copy his paint. The question is that as it is written to a topic in Russian a forum, only 4BO existed the 15th recipe of creation. Therefore within some admission mines move existence of 15 shades is theoretically possible 
4BO. At the same time some recipes
it is impossible to repeat because the industry doesn't release already some pigments because of replacement their pigments of a new compounding.
Besides we don't know, original pigments of production of Russia and the West are how equal among themselves,
in view of a possible difference of technological processes
productions of pigments.
Therefore even having original
compounding but without having original pigments, it is possible
to receive absolutely not that has to be.
Because I think doubts мр.
Akanikhin aren't unreasonable.

 

B.R.

Serge

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On 2/22/2018 at 4:33 AM, Aardvark said:

The problem is that as Alexander Akanikhin speaks, the owner AKAN, factory professional the chip Soviet a color possesses standards only he. The others, from his words, copy his paint. The question is that as it is written to a topic in Russian a forum, only 4BO existed the 15th recipe of creation. Therefore within some admission mines move existence of 15 shades is theoretically possible 
4BO. At the same time some recipes
it is impossible to repeat because the industry doesn't release already some pigments because of replacement their pigments of a new compounding.
Besides we don't know, original pigments of production of Russia and the West are how equal among themselves,
in view of a possible difference of technological processes
productions of pigments.
Therefore even having original
compounding but without having original pigments, it is possible
to receive absolutely not that has to be.
Because I think doubts мр.
Akanikhin aren't unreasonable.

 

B.R.

Serge

Well, thanks for the assist all the same :)

 

Gaz

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I was looking at the post-war Russian tanks at Bovington last weekend, T-72 and T-55 ex NVA, T-62 ex Iraqi.  The T-55 is partly sectioned as an instructional aid.  The T-62 is particularly battered.  The T-72 is the only one that fits your 80's criterion.  There is no visible evidence of a different primer colour around worn edges etc on any of these tanks.

 

If the Russians were still using lead-based paints, then a primer may not have been necessary - just 2 coats.

 

As for the top green colour, there are very many threads on exactly what colour that was.  One of the posts above suggests that there had been at least 15 recipes.  It was a feature of the authorised WW2 4BO colour mix that it darkened with age rather than fading, because of pigment oxidation.  Whether that peculiarity continued into the 80's I do not know.  Camouflage, other than white, was not generally used by the Russians in the 80's.

 

I don't imagine that Russian tank factories all used the same paint supplier, and I equally suspect that slightly off-shade batches of paint would not be QA rejected for that reason alone.  Close enough would have been good enough.

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1 hour ago, Das Abteilung said:

I was looking at the post-war Russian tanks at Bovington last weekend, T-72 and T-55 ex NVA, T-62 ex Iraqi.  The T-55 is partly sectioned as an instructional aid.  The T-62 is particularly battered.  The T-72 is the only one that fits your 80's criterion.  There is no visible evidence of a different primer colour around worn edges etc on any of these tanks.

 

If the Russians were still using lead-based paints, then a primer may not have been necessary - just 2 coats.

 

As for the top green colour, there are very many threads on exactly what colour that was.  One of the posts above suggests that there had been at least 15 recipes.  It was a feature of the authorised WW2 4BO colour mix that it darkened with age rather than fading, because of pigment oxidation.  Whether that peculiarity continued into the 80's I do not know.  Camouflage, other than white, was not generally used by the Russians in the 80's.

 

I don't imagine that Russian tank factories all used the same paint supplier, and I equally suspect that slightly off-shade batches of paint would not be QA rejected for that reason alone.  Close enough would have been good enough.

Interesting. What colour were the worn patches? Was it bare steel, or rusted etc?

 

Thanks for the info, btw, Abteilung :)

 

Gaz

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It varies.  The worn armour plate areas are the usual dark metallic brown armour plate colour.  This doesn't readily rust because of the corrosion-inhibiting elements in the alloy, such as manganese, nickel, chromium, carbon, etc.  This is especially true for face-hardened armour compared to rolled homogeneous because of the very high surface carbon content from the supercarburising heat treatment.  (Far too many "in service" models are rusted like decades-old range wrecks!).  It will have a sheen where it's well-worn but is never a bright metal colour.  However, the weld beads are very bright metal and will stay that way for ever.  The unarmoured parts like trackguards and bins, tool brackets etc would rust, and recent fresh wear on these would be a brighter metal colour.

 

All these vehicles are now indoors, and so not representative of one parked in the open.  The Bovington T-62 is in a pretty battered state and came from one of the Gulf Wars.  If you Google "Bovington T-62" there are some good images of it online.  Not much rust in evidence, even on the damaged trackguards.

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32 minutes ago, Das Abteilung said:

It varies.  The worn armour plate areas are the usual dark metallic brown armour plate colour.  This doesn't readily rust because of the corrosion-inhibiting elements in the alloy, such as manganese, nickel, chromium, carbon, etc.  This is especially true for face-hardened armour compared to rolled homogeneous because of the very high surface carbon content from the supercarburising heat treatment.  (Far too many "in service" models are rusted like decades-old range wrecks!).  It will have a sheen where it's well-worn but is never a bright metal colour.  However, the weld beads are very bright metal and will stay that way for ever.  The unarmoured parts like trackguards and bins, tool brackets etc would rust, and recent fresh wear on these would be a brighter metal colour.

 

All these vehicles are now indoors, and so not representative of one parked in the open.  The Bovington T-62 is in a pretty battered state and came from one of the Gulf Wars.  If you Google "Bovington T-62" there are some good images of it online.  Not much rust in evidence, even on the damaged trackguards.

Thank you, that's a big help ^-^

 

Gaz

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11 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

I don't imagine that Russian tank factories all used the same paint supplier, and I equally suspect that slightly off-shade batches of paint would not be QA rejected for that reason alone.  Close enough would have been good enough.

You are right, there were many plants manufacturing paint in the USSR. But it were the state plants production of which to regulate state standard (ГОСТ- GOST) and the specifications (ТУ- TU). Production control by both factory laboratories of the manufacturer and various department and ministry laboratory. Besides at the plant turning out military products there was a representative of military who controlled the made production on compliance of requirements of military. Therefore, paints could be only standard, and only instructions a compounding. But it was natural to paint more expediently tanks of the Ural plant with the paint produced in the Urals but not to bring it from Kharkiv as well as tanks of the Kharkiv plant were better to be painted with the paint made to Kharkiv, Nikolaev or Dnipropetrovsk but not to carry her from the Urals.

 

B.R.

Serge

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Judging by some images of recent Russian vehicles in three-tone camo, notably the Gaz Tigr, it seems AKs Russian AFV set is spot on with the greyish green, grey yellow and 6P (?) black. Of course, that likely only applies to when they start doing their vehicles in the green/sand/black combo.

 

Gaz

Edited by GazB
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