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ianpolinar

RAF Dk.Green camouflage color

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Hi folks. Just bought, from Brengun Kits, the "Hawker Typhoon Mk.1b car-door early" 1/72 kit

 

and i wonder which brand for paints has the most realistic tone of Dark green used as camouflage color on upper surfaces.

 

I thought the enamel by Xtracolor "BS241 RAF Dark Green" code X-1 had a good match with the real color, but I read on the web that is better for post-war british planes.

 

Thus, what is the most suitable to my kit? I am interested in enamels or acrylics paints to spray with my H&S airbru (Humbrol, Xtracolors, Tamiya, Gunze, Revell...etc...etc)

 

Thanks in advance

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Another recommendation for ACRN09 - WW2 Dark Green from Colourcoats.

 

John.

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The postwar colour was the same as the wartime one, so don't worry.  I've used the Xtracolour and been completely happy with it.  I'm sure that the Colourcoats will do the job - the only reason I haven't got it is because I had the Xtracolour one first.

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My good friend, Mike Chaplin told me the same as Graham above. The standard for "Temperate Terrestrial Green" aka "Dark Green" was the same for WW2 and to the present day. Other than the usual allowances for different makers, lots, etc.; any model paint that is doing accurate matching(Xtracolour, Colourcoats, etc.) should be fine. Any post-war changes were most likely ones to reduce fading, better adhesion, etc..

Joe

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Xtracrylic?  I don't use acrylics, but that seems obvious enough.  There are a number of new acrylics on the market but although obviously I haven't tried them, Mr.Colour has a good reputation.

 

I haven't met the term "Temperate Terrestrial Green".  I suspect it was a backwards translation error from the "Temperate Land Scheme" which did include Dark Green.  However, I'd cast a little doubt on "the present day" part of the story.  During my time at Warton I noticed that production Jaguars and early production Tornados used very different greens, the Jaguar one being darker.  My impression at the time was that the Tornados had switched to Nato Green, but I certainly can't confirm that, just that they were different from and lighter than the Jaguars.  Incidentally Tornado prototype P03 had the earlier colour (and a light underside?) whereas P06 had the production colour and wrap-round.

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I don't trust Xtrapaints - when I used enamels I bought their RAF Dark Earth, it was like chocolate or treacle toffee, far too dark :puke:

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Most if not all paint manufacturers get some things wrong, either consistently or just a single batch.  Now a chocolate Dark Earth would do nicely for some Middle Eastern or Far Eastern examples, so there's always the hope of serendipity.  I don't think that my tin of Xtracolour DE is way off, but it is a while since I used it, and I never did like some of the very sandy colours passed off as Dark Earth.  Some of the colour photos do suggest this, but could just be fading - it certainly did fade quite severely, as many ME photos show.  However, my first choice would be Colourcoats, when I next come to buy one.

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For acrylic options, I tried Xtracrylics for a few years, but they were hard to get through an airbrush. Even when thinned properly, they would clog up the needle/nozzle and require breaks to clean up every minute or so.

 

Switched to Tamiya acrylics, thinner with their own thinners, are airbrushing is much more fun now. I use their set of XF-81 Dark Green 2 (RAF), XF-81 Ocean Gray 2 (RAF) and XF-83 Medium Sea Gray (RAF) which came out at the same time as their 1/32 Spitfire Mk. IX.

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Winsor and Newton Flow Improver helps no end with Xtracyrlix. I used to have similar problems with airbrush blocking. I always use Acrylics now as less odour is domestically more acceptable and clean up is easier. They require a different approach but I am happy with them. 

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@Greenshirt has done a nice RAF Dark green comparison on his site. He states that Vallejo Model Color 893 and Humbrol acrylic 116 both matched his color chips. Based on his write up, I've used Vallejo 893 often (it's unfortunately labeled "FS 34079 US Dark Green" which it does not match), but have now switched to Colourcoats. I can say that I cannot tell Vallejo 893 and Colurcoats RAF Dark green apart - which makes sense as they both match the official color chip.

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37 minutes ago, Cookenbacher said:

@Greenshirt has done a nice RAF Dark green comparison on his site. He states that Vallejo Model Color 893 and Humbrol acrylic 116 both matched his color chips. Based on his write up, I've used Vallejo 893 often (it's unfortunately labeled "FS 34079 US Dark Green" which it does not match), but have now switched to Colourcoats. I can say that I cannot tell Vallejo 893 and Colurcoats RAF Dark green apart - which makes sense as they both match the official color chip.

 now that is interesting to hear, I brought 893 to be a generec dark green and found it lighter and greener than what expected from what I call raf dark green which is xtraclrylics take on it

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2 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

@Greenshirt has done a nice RAF Dark green comparison on his site. He states that Vallejo Model Color 893 and Humbrol acrylic 116 both matched his color chips. Based on his write up, I've used Vallejo 893 often (it's unfortunately labeled "FS 34079 US Dark Green" which it does not match), but have now switched to Colourcoats. I can say that I cannot tell Vallejo 893 and Colurcoats RAF Dark green apart - which makes sense as they both match the official color chip.

 

see

 

I also have matched Vallejo 70.893 "US Dark Green"  to the RAF Musuem paint chip chart.   

It's a good full size match, so maybe would look a bit dark on a model.

 

Vallejo 70.921 English Uniform is a very good match for the RAF  Musuem Dark Earth BTW

 

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Hi , Ianpolinar , re RAF dark green . In `55 I was at RAF Dyce , 612 Squadron . After loosing one of their Vampires in a

fatal crash a replacement was tranfered from an OTU which was overall silver with yellow training bands , so had to be

repainted . Walking past a hangar , some days later , I saw the squadron painters putting the finishing touches to its

new camouflage paint job . The old kite looked new ! , but it was about two shades darker than all the other Vamps .

Admiring their handywork I asked about the difference in colour . He said it was correct spec. paint new from stores and

the rest of the squadron had been painted about two years and were a little faded . Even out at about a mile in bright

sunlight that repaint could be picked out of a section of four !. Don`t be too dogmatic about paint shades, you would

be on a"hiding for nothing".Hope this helps a little with your conundrum.

                                                                                                      Don.

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2 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

 now that is interesting to hear, I brought 893 to be a generec dark green and found it lighter and greener than what expected from what I call raf dark green which is xtraclrylics take on it

 

Xtracolor is generally good, Xtracrylics gave me a few "eyeopeners". That's why I stopped using and was happy to bundle mine off to your good self a couple of years back.

 

The Mossie is in Xtracrylics Dark Green. It doesn't match either BS241 or the RAF Museum chip. The Xtracrylics Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey I used on my Catalina were bang on though.

 

resized_e0930699-8c2c-4ad8-a35c-75aab427

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On impulse I recently bought a Tamiya rattlecan of Tamiya “AS-9 Dark Green (RAF)”. I’ve not used it yet as the lid is definitely a different green to the Xtracrylics “XA1001 RAF Dark Green BS241” and Humbrol 163. Of the three H163 is my current favourite.

 

So what’s AS-9 good for?

 

Trevor

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17 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

Of the three H163 is my current favourite.

 

That's my favourite too Trevor. I've been using it since I got back into the hobby in 2001 and I'm always pleased with how it looks especially after a couple of coats of Klear and a couple of coats of matt varnish.

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28 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Xtracolor is generally good, Xtracrylics gave me a few "eyeopeners". That's why I stopped using and was happy to bundle mine off to your good self a couple of years back.

 

The Mossie is in Xtracrylics Dark Green. It doesn't match either BS241 or the RAF Museum chip. The Xtracrylics Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey I used on my Catalina were bang on though.

 

resized_e0930699-8c2c-4ad8-a35c-75aab427

quite a difference, though that mossie does look a tad greener than the models on the shelf, looks my beloved XA isn't as accurate as I though

 

though on thate note have heard the hataka raf colours are exellent, I may well be sampling some of the the blue line in the near future, though they need to offer them as individual bottles if there going to get me to switch.

 

Also heard someone claim Val893 is 'perfect match', I must have a dodgy pot as my comes out lighter than the XA pictured and lacking the brown tint the sitfire has 

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14 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said:

though they need to offer them as individual bottles if there going to get me to switch.

They do on the Hataka site. I'm not aware of any UK suppliers of individual pots, though. I have the RAF set, early days but it looks like it's going to be my acrylic of choice.

 

John.

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43 minutes ago, Don149 said:

Hi , Ianpolinar , re RAF dark green . In `55 I was at RAF Dyce , 612 Squadron . After loosing one of their Vampires in a

fatal crash a replacement was tranfered from an OTU which was overall silver with yellow training bands , so had to be

repainted . Walking past a hangar , some days later , I saw the squadron painters putting the finishing touches to its

new camouflage paint job . The old kite looked new ! , but it was about two shades darker than all the other Vamps .

Admiring their handywork I asked about the difference in colour . He said it was correct spec. paint new from stores and

the rest of the squadron had been painted about two years and were a little faded . Even out at about a mile in bright

sunlight that repaint could be picked out of a section of four !. Don`t be too dogmatic about paint shades, you would

be on a"hiding for nothing".Hope this helps a little with your conundrum.

                                                                                                      Don.

Hi Don

a good point,  but it helps to know what is should be to start with,   H30 faded is still a blue tinted green,  

 

here's a factory fresh  Spiteful

3070983226_1a95f75654_o.jpgSupermarine Spiteful by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

here's a 1947  Auxilary Airforce Spitfire 21

 

7099674243_2633888d24_o.jpgSpitfire F 21. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

which shows well how the colours weather,  and how  they do on various bits of the airframe,    though as this is the WW2 section,  many aircraft did not last long enough to get weathered and faded.

 

I will nab some  more of @Etiennedup   pics later

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Quite right Troy. It's true that it's unlikely that paint colour will ever ve exactly right on a model, but it is entirely possible to get it spectacularly wrong.

 

I am unaware of any photochemical mechanisms by which a dark olive paint can shift to blue-green. That would simply be wrong.

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18 minutes ago, johnd said:

They do on the Hataka site. I'm not aware of any UK suppliers of individual pots, though. I have the RAF set, early days but it looks like it's going to be my acrylic of choice.

 

John.

They are available here:

 

https://www.emodels.co.uk/paints/hataka-acrylic-paints

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Those are the standard red line, I meant they need to do the blue ones single, I don’t have the resources to just splash 15 quid every time I run low on one.....

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