MiG-23 lower surface colours

[Gambrinus]

Hi all.

 

I am working on a couple of Trumpeter MiG-23's and have come across a peculiar (to me) thing. In some cases the lower fuselage seems to be painted in two colours. The front 2/3 in one colour and the rear 1/3 in another colour. The front colour appears to be the usual blue-grey, while the rear is more of a pale blue. In fact I have a pot of each from Xtracolor, named as Czech colours.

 

What puzzles me is why this was done, was it done by all variants and by all user countries?

 

I would be very interested to learn more about this, and any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

Christian

[exdraken]

that could have to do with the fact that most Soviet planes were kept in the outside and only the cockpit part was covered from the elements usually. The mid section probably being better protectde by the wing....

 

could be wrong though!

 

any pics?

[Flankerman]

5 minutes ago, exdraken said:

only the cockpit part was covered from the elements usually

....as in this pic wot I took of a Su-27 at the Monino Officers Academy.....

 

 

So the front fuselage colour tends to be brighter (less faded) than the rest of the airframe.

 

Ken

[Gambrinus]

Thanks so far, guys.

 

The demarcation line is just to the rear of the centerline pylon.

I attach a couple of pics.

 

I hope I am not violating any copyrights. If so, please let me know, and I shall remove the pics right away.

 

 

The far one:

 

Valka.cz

 

Valka.cz

 

Cheers

Christian

[exdraken]

good question.....

 

but see here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/6c9dat/czechoslovakian_air_force_mig_23_floggers/

 

 

maybe it was some unpainted / heat resistant paint for the engine area by some users?

 

see this Hungarian plane:

https://www.skytamer.com/MiG/MiG-23MF,Hungarian_Air_Force_Lofting.jpg

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by exdraken

[JPuente54]

From how it looks; the forward part of the aircraft is definitely a different color. Notice that the undersides of the wings are in the same shade of blue-grey as the fuselage forward of the centerline pylon. Any covering would end at the wing. The forward color should show a variation if that were the case. My understanding(which could be wrong) is that the rear fuselage was painted in a different color because of the heat generated by the engine. The paint industries in the WARPACT nations had trouble formulating a Lt. Blue that could keep its color; but, found that a Lt. Grey didn't fade/show damage. At least, that is what a lot of the references available to me in the 80's-early 90's mentioned. Perhaps one of our Russian/Ukrainian/Belarussian members can help shed more light on this. This is still an area where good information is limited. Perhaps the good people at AKAN could help? I have some MiG-23/27 kits that could use that info. I have those Xtracolor paints, too.

Joe

[Aardvark]

40 minutes ago, JPuente54 said:

Perhaps one of our Russian/Ukrainian/Belarussian members can help shed more light on this. This is still an area where good information is limited

Maybe and help........when I read all 43 pages this topic:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_17723_start_640.html

Some MiG-23/27 really have two shadow blue, but I don't remember why.

My need fresh my mind and read topic.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

[Floggerman]

http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com.es/2008/05/una-salida-en-mig-23ml-de-la-nva.html

 

Typical for GDR and Czech planes. Heat resistant colour on ML.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Floggerman

[Aardvark]

I have read all 43 pages a topic about MiG-23 there is nothing on the matter!

But is in this topic:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_49579_start_20.html

write:

"A difference in shades of paint are caused by the fact that according to documentation the lower part of the fuselage was recommended to be painted AK-5178M enamel blue to shp.20, and further EP-140 enamel blue on No. sample... (color compound, unlike factory AK-5178M color). Application of the enamel  various brands when coloring "paunch" of hundred is connected with the fact that EP-140 has more high resistance to influence of operational liquids, than AK-5178M."

Still discussion here:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50763&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50763&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80
and here:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42406&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

and here:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_49579_start_40.html

and here write:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_54530.html

"recommended to be painted AK-5178M and further EP-140 enamel was standard for MiG-23,  MiG-25 & Su-17".

And if read other topic standard for MiG-27 too!

 

B.R.

Serge

 

For the first time probably the difference in coloring has been shown in this drawing:

There below are text charts in Russian where the difference in coloring is specified.

 

 

[Aardvark]

6 hours ago, Floggerman said:

Heat resistant colour on ML.

Heat resistant? But how? As bottom
the fuselage can be a heat and the top can't?

It contradicts such science as thermodynamics!
And here the fact that liquid following aspires down sir Newton confirms the law of gravitation!
Generally, about heat resistant it is city legends.

Why painted only a part the fuselage but not all? As option enamel EP-140 (ЭП-140) cost more money than enamel AK-5178M.
It is simple to paint EP-140 all plane of this enamel it was economically inexpedient.

 

B.w. AK-5178M & EP-140 it's name type enamel as Humbrol or Du Point e.t.c.

 

B.R.

Serge

Edited March 11, 2018 by Aardvark

[Floggerman]

Wow, a scientist. Any explanation for the same on Su-22, MiG-25...?

[harvy5]

On 11. 3. 2018 at 2:06 PM, Aardvark said:

Heat resistant? But how? As bottom
the fuselage can be a heat and the top can't?

It contradicts such science as thermodynamics!
And here the fact that liquid following aspires down sir Newton confirms the law of gravitation!
Generally, about heat resistant it is city legends.

Why painted only a part the fuselage but not all? As option enamel EP-140 (ЭП-140) cost more money than enamel AK-5178M.
It is simple to paint EP-140 all plane of this enamel it was economically inexpedient.

 

B.w. AK-5178M & EP-140 it's name type enamel as Humbrol or Du Point e.t.c.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

On 11. 3. 2018 at 4:04 PM, Floggerman said:

Wow, a scientist. Any explanation for the same on Su-22, MiG-25...?

EP-140 color is resistant to fuel and hydraulic . It is more expensive and therefore used only on the surface where it was needed. It's also seen on Mig-29.Other colors were  alkyd-acrylic AC-1115  and these PL-6 and AMG 10-damaging.

Sukhoi used a different type of color.

[JPuente54]

I am not an expert on military(all services) paints; but, the pigments used for the greens, browns, tans, etc. for the upper surfaces are better(for whatever reason), or, more resistant to the heat generated by the aircraft's engine than the blues made by the Soviet Union, and other WARPACT nations. Most likely as they are darker; they can radiate the heat better than lighter colors. Also, notice that the horizontal stabilizers/elevators are in the blue-grey/Lt. Blue/Med. Blue(choose one) color of the forward fuselage. harvy5 mentions that EP-140 is resistant to fuel and hydraulic fluid(s); and, is more expensive. That is why it used for just a portion of the MiG's fuselage. Someone who knows the chemistry of paint could provide great insight here. This is one of the more interesting threads in this forum. I am probably wrong in some(or all) of what I just posted. Here's where I would be happy to shown why. The links above can be a bit hard(for me) to follow; the English translation(by Google) isn't the best. Again, much of what I learned about the schemes is based on info known/guessed at in the 80's and early 90's. I have the Squadron/Signal "In Action" book on the MiG-23/27s. That is still my primary source(yes, I know it's limitations) on these two aircraft. Again, a very interesting and useful thread, I look forward to more postings on this subject.

Joe

 

[Aardvark]

Examples paint MiG-25 in EP-140

 from official technical manual on MiG-25 I show on this topic:

It has not yet been possible to find official technical documents that regulate the painting  of the Su-17/22 enamel EP-140, but I think sooner or later they will be found.

 

About EP-140.

It was oil & fuel resistance enamel, but it was not resistant to weathering (sunshine) enamel,  therefore, it was used only in places where oil, fuel, and other liquids flowed which would be eaten with ordinary enamel:

"For painting helicopters and other aircraft products that use synthetic oils, paint systems with epoxy-polyamide enamels EP-140 have been developed.  However, given their poor resistance to increased radiation, especially in a marine climate, and rapid loss of gloss with intensive grinding, VE-46 fluoroplastoepoxy enamel was created, which has high weather resistance, heat resistance (up to 200 ° C) and high resistance to synthetic and mineral  oils, aviation fuel and gasoline"

Resource Russian article: "The history of the development of paints and varnishes for the aviation industry"

https://www.corrosio.ru/posts/istoriya-razvitiya-lakokrasochnyih-materialov-dlya-aviatsionnoy-promyishlennosti

from "All-Russian Institute of Aviation Materials - VIAM ( ВИАМ)"

http://viam.ru

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Russian_Institute_Of_Aviation_Materials

The authors article scientists VIAM:

 E.K.  Kondrashov, L.V.  Semenova, V.A.  Kuznetsova, N.E.  Malova, T.A.  Lebedeva.

VIAM it's a researcher and developer of all Soviet / Russian aviation enamels, liquids, oils, etc.

 

Thus, the story that the MiG-23, 25, 27, Su-17/22, etc.  painted underneath by another type of enamel to protect against heat is a myth and urban legend!

😉😁

B.R.

Serge

[Uncle Uncool]

On 3/11/2018 at 11:06 AM, Aardvark said:

Heat resistant? But how? As bottom
the fuselage can be a heat and the top can't?

Not a MiG-23, but I was wondering about the glow seen on the mid upper fuselage of this Tu-22 while taking off in full afterburner.

Check minute 2:37.

 

Ain't it sweet?

Cheers,

 

Unc²

[CT7567]

48 minutes ago, Uncle Uncool said:

Not a MiG-23, but I was wondering about the glow seen on the mid upper fuselage of this Tu-22 while taking off in full afterburner.

Check minute 2:37.

 

Ain't it sweet?

Cheers,

 

Unc²

Nice footage of the Backfire - one of my all-time faves.

 

As to the "glow" you describe, I believe what you're seeing in that night takeoff clip is the result of low-level ambient lighting (such as floodlights from a distance) showing up as higher than normal contrast between the white dielectric panels on the vertical stabilizer/dorsal fillet and the overall matte gray airframe.  The brightness of landing lights and the overall darkness make most of the airframe appear very dark, and the lighter color (and probably less reflective material vs adjacent matte paint) make the white panels stand out more in these peculiar lighting conditions.

[Aardvark]

21 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said:

Not a MiG-23, but I was wondering about the glow seen on the mid upper fuselage of this Tu-22 while taking off in full afterburner.

First off all, I don't interesting bombers thematic, almost. 

Yes, in Tupolev design bureau was project Tu-22M long range interceptor with "Air-to-Air" missile, but it seems the nurses from psycho dispensary

 😁 learned about this in time, so it was never made in metal. ( As and Tu-160 interceptor, T-4 interceptor e.t.c)

But in at the beginning of the 90s, I tried (unsuccessfully 🤗) to build a "Tu-22M" from the ESCI (horror...very strong horror, hell & bdsm.....anything but not a model  real Tu-22M! 😁😁)

according to drawings from the "Aerohobby"magazine (now "Aviation and Time").

I remembered, that the Tu-22M at the base fin, at the very beginning,  is an additional jet engine TA-6

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ТА-6_(двигатель)

, but I do not know whether it works in flight, on takeoff or landing. Maybe You see work TA-6 on video? I don't know!

 

B.w. about history development & testing Tu-22M was good article in Russian magazine for modeller's "M-Hobby".

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S. Not exactly sure, but in my opinion the Tu-22M is painted underneath with a special white anti-atom paint.