Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) Hello all ... Im going for a second round of questions here. The first round was in the Cold war section. Mainly because the first round was concerning early Av-8b’s and now im looking for more current USMC use. First question is concerning paint. Heres a screenshot of a painting chart from cybermodeler referencing the scheme I have questions about. The colors call out for Gunship grey over Medium Grey blue. Is this the USMC Version of the Air forces “Have Glass Scheme” ? If yes is it truly Gunship Grey or something closer to the Grey used on the F-35 ? Whats the underside color called in the scheme ? Is it Blue grey or is there an official name ? My Thanks to any and all who answer. Dennis Edited February 17, 2018 by Corsairfoxfouruncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Maas Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 It's not a Have Glass scheme, but regular Gunship Grey over Gray Blue (which is the official name for FS35237), the latter is a fairly common colour, used on early US Hornets as well as a top colour on Norm 90 Luftwaffe jets, Canadian Hornets and IIRC also on the Aussie Hornets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 It is not related to Have Glass. From what I saw somewhere else, the 35237 undersides have now been changed to a true gray, something more like 36375, although as to when the change occurred and the actual color it went to I either have no idea right now or can't remember other than it has been a more recent change. Try doing a search for the latest version of MIL-STD-2161. The latest one that I have is the C version so there very well could be a D or later version out now. Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I saw a build on another site that listed the color change as being FS35237 intermediate blue for the undersides and FS36118 gunship grey for the upper surfaces. Link to build below as well as a color and markings guide. Will see if I can find additional data. Hope this will be useful. Mike https://modelingmadness.com/review/mod/us/usn/kolav8.htm https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/harrier/av-8b_profile2.shtml 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 72modeler, my mate; I'm afraid that Wingman Model Kits highly resent your using their brand imagery as your personal avatar piccy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said: 72modeler, my mate; I'm afraid that Wingman Model Kits highly resent your using their brand imagery as your personal avatar piccy. I'm not sure where you are going with the above statement; I took the image that I am using for my avatar from a site called Aviation Stock Photography; it is a photograph of an F5 pilot, not an illustration and is facing the opposite direction from the one that is displayed on the modeling site you mentioned, which I had never seen before or had prior knowledge of the existence of that organization.. I have seen the same avatar as mine used by numerous other enthusiasts and modellers. If I have infringed upon Wingman Models and they own the rights to the image in their website, I will remove my avatar, but it is not the same illustration, as it appears theirs is a line drawing, not a photo and is a mirror image of the photo I used. Probably best if you PM me- I am more than a little confused. Mkike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Dennis, Click here to be able to download the Mil-Std-2161 covering US Navy and Marine Corps aircraft colour schemes etc. Regards, Mark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Harry Lime said: Dennis, Click here to be able to download the Mil-Std-2161 covering US Navy and Marine Corps aircraft colour schemes etc. Regards, Mark. It appears from the link above that the C version is the latest for Mil-Std-2161. Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 10 hours ago, 72modeler said: I'm not sure where you are going with the above statement; I took the image that I am using for my avatar from a site called Aviation Stock Photography; it is a photograph of an F5 pilot, not an illustration and is facing the opposite direction from the one that is displayed on the modeling site you mentioned, which I had never seen before or had prior knowledge of the existence of that organization.. I have seen the same avatar as mine used by numerous other enthusiasts and modellers. If I have infringed upon Wingman Models and they own the rights to the image in their website, I will remove my avatar, but it is not the same illustration, as it appears theirs is a line drawing, not a photo and is a mirror image of the photo I used. Probably best if you PM me- I am more than a little confused. Mkike You and me both. If its a stock photo from the internet then everythings fine. I very much doubt that Wingman own it, and if they do they can get in contact. Until then please continue to use it. @Uncle Uncool unless you have anything from Wingman to bring to the moderators attention please refrain from comments like this even if you intend them to be a joke, the recipient in this case, and we dont find it funny. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 14 hours ago, 72modeler said: I'm not sure where you are going with the above statement; I took the image that I am using for my avatar from a site called Aviation Stock Photography; it is a photograph of an F5 pilot, not an illustration and is facing the opposite direction from the one that is displayed on the modeling site you mentioned, which I had never seen before or had prior knowledge of the existence of that organization.. I have seen the same avatar as mine used by numerous other enthusiasts and modellers. If I have infringed upon Wingman Models and they own the rights to the image in their website, I will remove my avatar, but it is not the same illustration, as it appears theirs is a line drawing, not a photo and is a mirror image of the photo I used. Probably best if you PM me- I am more than a little confused. Mkike Please excuse me, Mkike. It was just me pulling your leg; no offence intended at all, really. Sorry. Just a silly comment on my part. 4 hours ago, Julien said: @Uncle Uncool unless you have anything from Wingman to bring to the moderators attention please refrain from comments like this even if you intend them to be a joke, the recipient in this case, and we dont find it funny. my mistake, Julien. I'm real sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Uncool, Thank you for your clarification; it wasn't clear to me if your post was serious or not, but I do appreciate the explanation. (The illustration of Melchie threw me for a loop, as he and I haven't had a long cyber relationship on BM, and I didn't have the impression of his being anything but a straight-up square fellow, but the last thing I wanted to do would be to offend him, or anybody else in this fraternity.) All is forgiven, and I am sorry I was so surprised and upset, as I have made it a point to be helpful, positive, and non-judgmental when posting and replying on BM since I have been welcomed into this group as a member- especially as this site has been by far the most helpful, non-egotistical, and supportive modeling site I have ever encountered. Thank you again. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 According to Wolfpak decals sheet 72-113, which can be found at: http://www.millcreekconsultants.com/WP72-A113.html by 2014 the colors had changed to 36118 over 36320 to the same pattern as the previous scheme using 36118 over 35237 as shown on their sheet 72-056 for an aircraft from May of 2011. Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 9 hours ago, e8n2 said: by 2014 the colors had changed to 36118 over 36320 to the same pattern as the previous scheme using 36118 over 35237 as shown on their sheet 72-056 for an aircraft from May of 2011. Thanks Dave ... Thats my scheme the photos ive looked at show the bluer color on aircraft from the 2010-2011 period. The photos ive seen dated 2016 look lighter and grayer so that confirms the photo’s. Looks like im going with that as my colors. Dennis 🔺 = THANK YOU TO EVERYONE THAT HAS HELPED WITH ANSWERS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 18/02/2018 at 4:07 PM, 72modeler said: Uncool, Thank you for your clarification; it wasn't clear to me if your post was serious or not, but I do appreciate the explanation. (The illustration of Melchie threw me for a loop, as he and I haven't had a long cyber relationship on BM, and I didn't have the impression of his being anything but a straight-up square fellow, but the last thing I wanted to do would be to offend him, or anybody else in this fraternity.) All is forgiven, and I am sorry I was so surprised and upset, as I have made it a point to be helpful, positive, and non-judgmental when posting and replying on BM since I have been welcomed into this group as a member- especially as this site has been by far the most helpful, non-egotistical, and supportive modeling site I have ever encountered. Thank you again. Hey, Mike! Never mind; you're quite welcome, my mate. What to say with regard to Mr Melchett, "The Sheneral"? Not only he is a top-bloke, but also an incredible modeller with impressive skills - still can recall some of his masterpieces here on BM: the Airfix TSR-2, the Hobby Boss F-111K and the Revell Tonka (all of them in 1/48th scale), which is currently pinned on the WIP section, and from which I've learnt a lot. Oh, also, he's got a great sense of humour. Awful patient as well. So sorry to have disturbed you somehow; it wasn't really my purpose. Will have to be more careful about the jokes from now on. Cheers Mike, Unc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocksAway Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Dennis Here's what I have or know about AV-8B colours - feel free to research more and draw your own conclusions using this material to kick start ... I believe the AV-8B scheme entered service with a RAF-mimic of dark grey / gark green / light aircraft grey using FS36099 / FS34079 / FS36440 respectively- the "AV-8B land camouflage scheme" and which is documented in MIL-STD-2161A. The under-side colour was then removed again as per the RAF and became a "wraparound" with FS36099 ad FS34079. The first HTPS (Harrier Tactical Paint Scheme) "AV-8B tactical" was officially FS36118 Gunship Grey on the "saddle", FS36320 Dark Compass Grey on the upper fuselage and FS36375 Light Compass Ghost Grey on the undersides. This was then modified subsequently to FS36118 / Dark Gull Grey FS36231 and FS36320 and became the prevailing standard for many years. (MIL-STD-2161B). The current HTPS scheme applied to the majority of Harriers now is FS36118 over FS35237 French Blue Grey. (MIL-STS-2161C). There will be official time periods for the introduction of these (not to hand), but re-painting would have followed to coincide with maintenance tasks and other delayers, so you can't necessarily see a photo and date it based on the scheme. As we all know, what's official and what gets done is not always the same thing - and the local paint shop guys didn't always follow the official pattern markings. Best to find photos of the jet you want to model and use that as evidence if you want to avoid the Rivet Police getting on your case and making your life hell. Note there are variations in the colour names - and spelling of course - but the FS numbers should be your guide. Gulf War paint schemes are and Spanish and Italian Harriers make for another discussion! Edited February 22, 2018 by ChocksAway correction 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, ChocksAway said: Dennis Here's what I have or know about AV-8B colours - feel free to research more and draw your own conclusions using this material to kick start ... The scheme you have identified in your first post is based on either a FSD (Full Scale Development) jet or a very early AV-8B Harrier which all at some point had the double row of intake doors. These were replaced with a single row, even during the development period, but some jets entered service with two rows (e.g. 161573) and were then modified to one. As such I think it's either an attempt to document a late scheme seen on 161397 or the one applied on 161399. It is not I believe an "operational" scheme. I believe the AV-8B scheme entered service with a RAF-mimic of dark grey / gark green / light aircraft grey using FS36099 / FS34079 / FS36440 respectively- the "AV-8B land camouflage scheme" and which is documented in MIL-STD-2161A. The under-side colour was then removed again as per the RAF and became a "wraparound" with FS36099 ad FS34079. The first HTPS (Harrier Tactical Paint Scheme) "AV-8B tactical" was officially FS36118 Gunship Grey on the "saddle", FS36320 Dark Compass Grey on the upper fuselage and FS36375 Light Compass Ghost Grey on the undersides. This was then modified subsequently to FS36118 / Dark Gull Grey FS36231 and FS36320 and became the prevailing standard for many years. (MIL-STD-2161B). The current HTPS scheme applied to the majority of Harriers now is FS36118 over FS35237 French Blue Grey. (MIL-STS-2161C). There will be official time periods for the introduction of these (not to hand), but re-painting would have followed to coincide with maintenance tasks and other delayers, so you can't necessarily see a photo and date it based on the scheme. As we all know, what's official and what gets done is not always the same thing - and the local paint shop guys didn't always follow the official pattern markings. Best to find photos of the jet you want to model and use that as evidence if you want to avoid the Rivet Police getting on your case and making your life hell. Note there are variations in the colour names - and spelling of course - but the FS numbers should be your guide. Gulf War paint schemes are and Spanish and Italian Harriers make for another discussion! Remember it's a hobby - do what you want. Uncle Uncool - you certainly live up to your forum name. Clearly something lost in translation. The scheme in the drawing is not an experimental one but comes from Mil.Std.2161C, dated Feb.2014 All revisions of Mil.Std.2161 use the same drawing showing the double row of intakes, even if the production aircrafts had the single row. Drawings in this kind of documents are really only indicative of the shape and features of an aircraft, I can see why nobody bothered modifying the AV-8B with the proper production features. The same happened with the F-14, that even at the end of its service life was always drawn with the original beavertail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocksAway Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Correct - my apologies. Got carried away. POST ABOVE REVISED. Time to hang up my keyboard and retire from BM. Edited February 22, 2018 by ChocksAway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 hours ago, ChocksAway said: Correct - my apologies. Got carried away. POST ABOVE REVISED. Time to hang up my keyboard and retire from BM. Youre ok ChocksAway, Im taking all info and processing and storing it. Either for my current build or a future Harrier build. I appreciate all the help I’ve recieved from everyone and I always try to acknowledge that. Even if that is simply using the “Thank you” button. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 On 22/02/2018 at 4:19 AM, ChocksAway said: Uncle Uncool - you certainly live up to your forum name. Clearly something lost in translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGHTS ON Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Both new & old schemes still in use on USS Maklin Island from Jan 2017: phots from USMC amphib ship visit Julien has now taken some effort and posted in the walk around section here on BM. No copy right issues, so use as you like. The legacy scheme was FSxx118 gunship grey over the paler grey, the newer darker version is not quite gunship grey (I have an FS number for it and will edit this post later when I find it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 Hello @FIGHTS ON ... Thanks for the link and information. I finished my Harrier a few weeks ago but will file the info. for future builds. Heres a link in case you haven't seen the model. Dennis http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235035328-a-“tomcats”-harrier/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGHTS ON Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Now seen - awesome build by the way - what grey did you use in the end? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 Gunship over Dk.ghost grey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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