Redcoat2966 Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Etienne said: Interesting idea with the gun mount on schurzen 😎 E Yeah, I thought so too. I'll camo them in some alternate scheme. maybe one an old winter painted piece. I might see if I can cut them down a bit and mimic a acetylene cutting marks maybe. 6 minutes ago, Das Abteilung said: Steel plates under the mount were probably not necessary. The bed would take the weight. I was intending at one time to do something similar with a 3cm FlaK 38/103 in the back: same mount. I had thought of using timber blocks placed either side of each leg end with another piece of timber across the top to make an upturned U to hold the legs down. It's not so much for weight issues DA, more to stop it moving with constant fire, especially in 0 degree anti-infantry role. You don't get movement issues when in AA role as I would have thought downward recoil would assist in keeping it in one place. As I said to Etienne, I'll cut them maybe in half and bolt them down. Alternately I do have some angle iron in scale I could use; or as you mention a simple wood catchment. But the plate does have the bonus of adding some alternate colour and dimension. Cheers both for taking a look..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_t Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Another great build Simon, and that camo looks really smart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soeren Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 The camo Looks very nice. Great improvement. :D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I second what others have said about the colours and finish. Really nice. Yes, I'd thought about the recoil. I think the 3 timber "U bolts" would have been secure for full-azimuth traverse. Much of the recoil was absorbed by the recoil mechanism and weapon operation: it was recoil-operated, not gas, and so relied on using some of the recoil impulse energy to cycle the action. But you do see some vehicle suspension movement on film clips of SdKfz10 with 2cm FlaK firing. There are other mounting possibilities. Wooden box frames in which the feet sit. Or removing the feet completely and using metal pegs mounted in wooden blocks or baulks. I don't know if the bottom of the foot could be separated from its threaded leg to make a peg. Schurzen would have been quite hard to drill in the field, being face-hardened. The metal-metal of the feet on schurzen or similar plates might have slid about more than metal on wood and certainly needed strong securing. What about some schurzen or similar welded together into a single piece with angle-iron box frames for the mount's feet welded on, and pieces of angle iron bolted over the top? The whole thing bolted around the edges to the bed. For something completely different, there's a photo kicking around on the web of a 3cm MK103 on a simple pintle yoke mounted on a tree stump or telegraph pole braced with more timber as an airfield defence weapon. That could be translated to a vehicle mount and with other weapons. I've also seen a photo of a triple MG81Z (yes, 6 x 7.92mm for about 3,000rpm!) on an improvised trolley mount, also for airfield defence. An ex-Kriegsmarine single or twin 2cm or 3.7cm on a deck pedestal mount in the back of a truck is another interesting idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) I think after long contemplation....and the ideas from DA.....I think I'm going to ditch the complete section of rear and scratch build a flat rear deck with styrene and actual wood. I'll have the outer frame of steel exposed and then roughly have the sheet Schurzen tack welded to the edge and some rough angle iron to form a catchment frame to hold the 38 in place. Or possibly some welded u brackets...............I realised in someway, it is not only just in firing mode it has to be held down. Rough roads etc should be considered, so firmly and permanently is the way I'm going. So my rear built section can be held for a project in the future....... Catch you later Edited June 3, 2018 by Redcoat2966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) Decided to go with a rebuild of the rear deck and got the main lot done. Just need to to add Tarp loops, Number plate frame Rear light Ladders at the rear Side foot loops to climb on from the side. The decking is slightly cut a mil or two longer and will be trimmed during install and after staining and painting. I went for American bass wood as the grain is more to scale than balsa - IMHO anyway.....🤗 Edited June 5, 2018 by Redcoat2966 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I like bass wood for 1/35 timber: as you say, more scale-appropriate grain. And better for end grain, square-edge cutting, sanding, drilling and finishing than balsa. I know you've ditched the wurfrahmen idea now in favour of the FlaK, but I see that MiniArt have announced a Russian version mounted on a Gaz AA (below). Interesting to see how that was done - assuming it to be reasonably correct. Presumably there's an adjustable elevation mechanism (or 3?): stout timber poles, if I know the Russians. IMHO the FlaK idea has many more interesting detail opportunities anyway, apart from the bed mods. Spent cases scattered about, discarded empty magazines, full and empty magazine boxes, spare barrel/box, asbestos mitts close at hand for barrel changing, crew gear shoved in a corner. There was normally a tool box for the FlaK 38 too. I think the old Tristar accessory set had the tool and barrel boxes. Barrel changing was important for the single-gun mount with prolonged firing. It unscrewed, so not entirely quick change, and the bottom wider section had a strip of roughened finish for grip. Story has it that the couple of single 20mm guns defending the Mohne dam jammed because the crews forgot to swap out the barrels or moderate their rate of fire in their excitement, and then couldn't change them as the threads had expanded and jammed. The Flakvierling normally only fired diagonally opposite pairs of barrels, partly to facilitate reloading and permit almost-continuous 2-gun firing, but also for heat management. Firing all 4 was an emergency measure. We now know that automatic weapon barrels wear out faster when really hot, but that's a recent discovery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just spotted a resin casting of the "official" truck bed mount for the FlaK 38 on eBay. Assuming it to be accurate, it has a semicircular "cup" for each foot and a device for attaching the towing end of the carriage. Not sure how much of what you see here is surplus material. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 Hi DA That Russian rocket launcher set up looks awesome.....I'll stick with the 20mm though for the very reasons you have above - plenty of opportunity to clutter the place up..😁 I'll save the rocket set up for maybe an Opel Blitz....🤔 Thanks for the cradle to take a look at. I think your right. The recoil mechanism would take up a huge amount of recoil and the weight of the piece also would mean no more than the wooden cups front and rear to hold it in place. I've seen on some documentary on Youtube a four barrelled unit firing, and it looked like all four. So seems to to have been one of those times of emergency.....massed wave infantry attack maybe. Thanks again. Just off to put final touches to the scratch rear deck. Also, I had a big disaster this morning and badly scratched the roof of the cab. It's giving me no end of issues repairing it. Filling and sanding.....then I have to redo the camo'......life does suck sometimes....😡 Cheers Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris B Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 That interesting. Nice painting and one page after half of the model disappeared. Rebuild looks good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 Cheers Kris.......yeah, change of direction. On the road to getting the scratch done. Managed to prime last night, so should be back on track by the weekend. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I suspect there were lots of "emergency" firings of all 4 barrels on the Vierling!!! Needing to be firing at aircraft targeting you and your mates strikes me as always being an emergency.................... And then there's thousands of Russian infantry looming into view..... But there was a problem with only having 20rd mags in that they only gave about 5 secs firing. And it would take perhaps double that time to reload both guns each side, which is why the practical rate of fire of 4 guns was only about the same as the cyclic rate of a single gun. So you only get a 5 sec burst every 12-15 secs with all 4 guns. With 2 guns firing the loader had a chance of keeping up with the mag changes and you could keep up a fairly constant rate of fire. Who designs an AA cannon and only gives it a 20rd magazine? Yes, I know: more companies than you might imagine. I suppose it was the thinking of the pre-WW2 times. The 3cm adaption was far more formidable, but too late to make any difference. If done in 1943 it might have been a different story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 Morning all I have a whole day free today. So hopefully she'll be a lot different by EOB. Finally got the rear deck and fitted and stained last night. Nest the isolation layer and decals. Unfortunately last night I was looking over the decal sets for 5th SS Wiking and discover the front plates are slightly too large for the Voyager PE set. I've said from the beginning a totally useless PE set. So she might end up bog standard 2nd Panzer Division Normand '44. I'll have to see if I can search through the decal archive today for smaller plates. Anyway, here's where she stands. Roof repairs done and a total respray for the camo'. That took some doing to match to the rest of the vehicle....😬 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 That looks very......wooden. And I mean that in the best possible way. John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 Cheers John. It's American Bass wood with an AK Naval weathering colours deck wash. I'm pleased with it too. Bit worried as it is a hard effect to create in scale. I've used balsa in the past, but for me the was more 1/16 upwards in scale. Waiting for the satin to dry, and the wash and panel line....🙂 Simon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_t Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Brilliant work Simon  1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 Thanks Clive....I really appreciate yours and the teams interest and comments on my modelling efforts..... Regards Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewy Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Thats a great job on the wood colouring, nothing like spening a full day modelling, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Thanks, and yeah Hewy, rare occasion; although I still had to go get the shopping so that cut an hour out -nothing unusual...... Sitting here looking at progress, and trying to justify the time. Still chipped the rear yet......😬 here's a couple of mid Friday model day progress....I'll try and post by end of the evening on finally where I stand. I think I might switch to figure painting for a break...🤔 Edited June 8, 2018 by Redcoat2966 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_t Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Awesome... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soeren Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Beautiful Simon, just beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris B Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Where you get this wood from Simon? Wood effect on the wood is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 41 minutes ago, clive_t said: Awesome... 15 minutes ago, Soeren said: Beautiful Simon, just beautiful. 2 minutes ago, Kris B said: Where you get this wood from Simon? Wood effect on the wood is fantastic. Thanks chaps...🤗.......really had a good day today...... Looks like I can go through to bed time........🤩, I'm all chipped out at the moment though, but will get the rear deck done by tonight. The wood Kris I got from Hobby craft in the model section at the back of the store. They have a really nice selection of balsa and in this case American Bass wood too. Wasn't expensive, couple of pounds if I remember; and is really easy to cut with and against the grain. The staining as I said earlier is two shades of AK Naval Ships Weathering Colours.....AK301 and 302. Easy really - 301 first and then the ends with 302. I pre dampened the wood with odourless thinners first. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris B Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Cheers, I'll look on the shelf when be next time in Hobby Craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoat2966 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Friday Model Fest comes to a close..........might get some more done the weekend, but I'm favouring a figure for a change. Did the chipping and heavy wear on the rear. Glazed the cab.....discovered to specs of crap on the inside once I sealed it....go figure..Exhaust finished and wheels on. All except the drive. I need to keep it off for track fitting. I'm going for the kit supplied and see how they look. Well. she's a well used little workhorse. I'm not looking forward to masking and spraying the wiper mark on a dusty windscreen, but I'll persevere...😬 Catch up over the weekend...... Edited June 8, 2018 by Redcoat2966 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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