Leichte Zugkraftwagen 3t -Sd.Kfz.11-2nd Panzer '44

[Redcoat2966]

Hi Soeren, yes. I thought that I was intending to put a sheet of steel over the drop down side, bolted on with as I said plates to loop bolt down the frame. I'll do a rough mock up and let the team decide once it's all together.....or as you say, be on the lookout for a cheap Dragon Flak 38....

 

S

[Soeren]

Would you in real life fire a rocket from a wooden support covered by a thin sheet of steel?

[Redcoat2966]

I'm thinking more like footplate, like diamond plate. As I said, seen these on the back of Bussing Nag's....also don't forget, it's take off time is fleeting due to the weight ration. I suppose I could do a full drop on the side rather than perpendicular to the vehicle....that may fix the issue.

 

S

[Redcoat2966]

Evening all.

 

As my SIG 33 is winding down, I decided to start another from the "window sill" line up that sit's there staring at me......😬.

 

Got some time yesterday and today to get a primer on it. I went for a black Ultimate with no white highlights, before the base coats of oxide primer and Dunkelgelb.....I still have to do a final highlight on the front cab and touch up the oxide beneath that blends into the chassis. Then a detail highlight. Maybe get to do the interior of the cab tomorrow in between my chores....😫

 

Later chaps....

 

Here's where she stands.

 

 

 

 

 

[FrancisGL]

A nice base to work on it, The addition of the rockets will give a very exclusive touch. I have never built an AFV kit, but I have heard that they are quite over-enginereed, when something can be done with one or two pieces, they use 4 or 6, besides being somewhat expensive in my opinion ...

Cheers Simon 👍

[Redcoat2966]

28 minutes ago, FrancisGL said:

A nice base to work on it, The addition of the rockets will give a very exclusive touch. I have never built an AFV kit, but I have heard that they are quite over-enginereed, when something can be done with one or two pieces, they use 4 or 6, besides being somewhat expensive in my opinion ...

Cheers Simon 👍

Hi Francis, yes I agree. I don't think they'll be on my "to buy" list again, luckily I got this cheap off Ebay...... The PE set specifically for this kit by Voyager was near useless and very basic, mostly interior cab detail....for a kit without the ability to leave the doors open - go figure......... I ended up using some Aber and Eduard to make up some of the detail. AFV instruction sheets also have very tough to understand direction and the omit location holes etc, so you end up guessing.

 

As regards the rockets. I may have changed my mind and may go for the Dragon FLAK 33/38 that's on it's way. Have it set up for ground combat against infantry....(I shudder at the thought..🤢)....it depends on whether it fits in the back........😬

 

Well, just going to have a cuppa and do some final chores, and then maybe get back to the undercoats and highlights.

 

Cheers

 

Simon.

[Soeren]

Good choice to go for the Flak unit. There was a movie with Bruce Willis testing a high caliber machine gun versus a human body 80

[Kingsman]

I don't think having the launcher on the wooden bed is in itself problematic from a structural perspective.  Rockets are essentially recoilless. But it would be badly scorched if not damaged by the rocket exhaust on firing, so steel plating is probably a sound idea.

 

But the rear of the launcher frames need to be right against the open edge of the bed. At the moment, the rocket blast would catch the edge of the bed and shred it at that short distance.

 

And the drop side needs to be dropped all the way down.  A sheet of steel - of any pattern - on it would not stop it being blasted into the boondocks by the rockets' blast.  The wooden one as shown flat would be shredded to burnt matchwood. I think the other side should be dropped too, as that would probably be shredded by the blast as the rockets pass over it.  Metal plating probably worthwhile here too.

 

Have a look at the YouTube video here to see what the blast and fiery exhaust really looked and felt like. There's a reason they were most normally fired from armoured vehicles or on the ground, as here.

 

[Redcoat2966]

On 5/29/2018 at 2:16 PM, Soeren said:

Good choice to go for the Flak unit. There was a movie with Bruce Willis testing a high caliber machine gun versus a human body 80

Hi Soeren, yes. I think that was the "Jackal", remake of the "Day Of The Jackal" ....I think it was a Czechoslovakian 20mm......😬

 

On 5/29/2018 at 5:26 PM, Das Abteilung said:

I don't think having the launcher on the wooden bed is in itself problematic from a structural perspective.  Rockets are essentially recoilless. But it would be badly scorched if not damaged by the rocket exhaust on firing, so steel plating is probably a sound idea.

 

But the rear of the launcher frames need to be right against the open edge of the bed. At the moment, the rocket blast would catch the edge of the bed and shred it at that short distance.

 

And the drop side needs to be dropped all the way down.  A sheet of steel - of any pattern - on it would not stop it being blasted into the boondocks by the rockets' blast.  The wooden one as shown flat would be shredded to burnt matchwood. I think the other side should be dropped too, as that would probably be shredded by the blast as the rockets pass over it.  Metal plating probably worthwhile here too.

 

Have a look at the YouTube video here to see what the blast and fiery exhaust really looked and felt like. There's a reason they were most normally fired from armoured vehicles or on the ground, as here.

 

Hi Das 

My thoughts exactly. I've been looking for diamond foot plate for nearly a month....no one seems to sell 1/35th scale. ...finally found some from a model rail supplier in HO scale......As regards the side gate. I originally was going to go for a 20mm Flak on the back, so I only dropped the side gate half way intending the gun crew to be able to stand to the side when firing, increasing their area. Once I got the rocket set last month, I dropped it as you can see here.

 

 

If I do finally go for rocket equipped.......🤔....., I'll have them held down with loop bolts right to the edge of the rear.............In the end, needs must. I can't imagine this wasn't done as the need to move location once fired was critical.......ad hoc all the way.

 

Well here's some more shots. I have to say, AFV isn't on my fave list of manufacturers. I managed to get to the rear wheel set, and when painting the rubber.......on some of the wheels the moulding was not the best and the wheel rim wasn't there on a couple of the wheels. This sort of lack of quality in detail is an issue.....for me anyway. Hence my love of Tamiya.

 

 

One of the inner wheels is missing at present, as I have decided to have one still in red primer as though it's a new one and they didn't get to paint it yet. That should be on tomorrow.

 

 

 

Nite all......

Edited June 1, 2018 by Redcoat2966

[Kingsman]

Not wishing to hijack this thread, but the weapon in The Jackal was a Russian 14.5mm KPV.  The second most powerful machine gun ever made, by muzzle energy.  A machine gun made post-war to use the ammunition from the wartime 14.5mm PTRD and PTRS anti-tank rifles.

 

Bested only by the short-lived unreliable 15mm BESA.  Anything above 15mm calibre is technically an automatic cannon.  UK attempted to make an aircraft machine gun firing the 0.55" Boys AT rifle ammunition, the Rolls-Royce Machine Gun.  Dropped when adequate quantities of 0.50" Brownings became available.  Fortunately, 'cos they couldn't make it work reliably.

[Redcoat2966]

What's 5.5 mil between friends.........😁

[FrancisGL]

20 hours ago, Redcoat2966 said:

As regards the rockets. I may have changed my mind and may go for the Dragon FLAK 33/38 that's on it's way. Have it set up for ground combat against infantry....(I shudder at the thought..🤢)....it depends on whether it fits in the back........😬

I do not know if you saw the movie "Saving Soldier Ryan" (I guess so), and you will remember the final scene "Tiger Assault", where you can see a group of G.I. Joes, trying to put mines in the hull and turret of the tank, and then other Jerrys, loaded with the cannon, I think a 20mm Flak38, and he is shot directly at the Tiger, obviously at the American soldiers, seeing what he is capable of. make a human ...

 

On the other hand, the kit is taking a different look, but very beautiful.

 

Cheers Simon 

[Redcoat2966]

Thanks Francis, and yes; great movie. That scene tends to stay with you.......In my reading, I understand this use of 20mm in anti infantry role was not nearly as common as in the East. I read a memoir once, and the officer said in many way's the pure phycological value of it's use against mass infantry attacks was as debilitating as to how many they could hit.....anyone seeing the result of impact had their forward mementum somwhat slowed....

 

Had a good quiet morning due to the rain and finished off the main colour areas and final wheel work and cab interior (for what you see). Next step a satin varnish prior to the camoflage. Still looking for a good reference of a pattern that will look good.

 

 

 

[Soeren]

21 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

Not wishing to hijack this thread, but the weapon in The Jackal was a Russian 14.5mm KPV.  The second most powerful machine gun ever made, by muzzle energy.  A machine gun made post-war to use the ammunition from the wartime 14.5mm PTRD and PTRS anti-tank rifles.

 

Bested only by the short-lived unreliable 15mm BESA.  Anything above 15mm calibre is technically an automatic cannon.  UK attempted to make an aircraft machine gun firing the 0.55" Boys AT rifle ammunition, the Rolls-Royce Machine Gun.  Dropped when adequate quantities of 0.50" Brownings became available.  Fortunately, 'cos they couldn't make it work reliably.

From a Movie site: "The weapon is identified in the film as a "Polish ZSU-33 14.5mm", which is in reality a Browning M2HB mocked up as a KPV heavy machine gun in 14.5mm."

[Redcoat2966]

All I know Soeren is that I wouldn't want anyone of them to "pop a cap in  my backside"..................😁 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Redcoat2966

[Kingsman]

OK.  I meant that it was supposed to be a KPV.  We're all used to seeing Brownings posing as Any Other Machine Gun You Care To Name, real or fictitious.

[Hewy]

Reat job up to yet Simon 

[Redcoat2966]

Thanks Hewy.

 

Actually enjoying this one, in spite of the AFV issues here and there. Just doing some research on camo patterns seen around Normandy in '44. I should get that on her over the weekend..

 

Did you get to take a look at the Hinckley Model Show....?

 

Cheers

Simon.

[Redcoat2966]

Evening all. Hope this weekend finds you fine.....and dry..😁

 

In  between power washing and cutting grass, managed to get the camo' on this one. After some research I have decided to go a SS Wiking Kampfgruppe Muhlenkamp, Eastern Poland July '44......with.....ready that drum role........a 20mm Flak 38 doing mischief to some poor unfortunate Russian Infantry......😬

 

So....the camo'....a basic brown line only with no green highlights. My Harder and Steenbeck really came into it's own today. Learnt a lot again, and on a camo of this type again I aim to get it thinner now I've practiced on this one.

 

Here she is.

 

 

 

[robw_uk]

great looking paint job.... 

[Redcoat2966]

Cheers Rob. The Harder & Steenbeck is a cracker of a brush. Now getting into using it more now than the IWATA I was using before. 

 

I got this camo' scheme from a photograph of some SS Infantry Battalion surrendering in '45 in Austria. It was on a bus and then a Hannomag following it.

 

I have to say your little Hungarian Honey is coming along nicely too.......it's at that stage when you can't wait to get some primer on it to get it all one colour. I had that with the SIG 33.

 

Simon.

[Bullbasket]

It's something a bit different. Nice job with the cammo. You've made a convincing job of it.

 

John.

[Redcoat2966]

Cheers John.

 

H&S makes it possible. The Flak 38 will have (well, I'm going to try) camo' with in scale around 2" to 3" vertical in brown and green. I want some contrast with vehicle and Flak. Pondering this morning on how they would hold it down. I saw recently some chap used old Schurzen welded down and then the piece bolted to it. Thought it was a good idea; I imagine done in the field too. I don't have any steel frame to weld to, so I'll bolt mine to the deck.

 

[Etienne]

Interesting idea with the gun mount on schurzen 😎 E

[Kingsman]

Steel plates under the mount were probably not necessary.  The bed would take the weight.  I was intending at one time to do something similar with a 3cm FlaK 38/103 in the back: same mount. 

 

I had thought of using timber blocks placed either side of each leg end with another piece of timber across the top to make an upturned U to hold the legs down.  All bolted through.  In corresponding positions under the bed floor, a piece of sheet metal reinforcement to stop the bolts pulling through. Grandt Line do (did, now) some large bolts on square washer plates and I was intending to use those.  But easily made from any bolt head and plastic or metal sheet.

 

I first thought of using the ski attachments on the front wheels, but then settled on a broken-down one with the bonnet open and the front wheels removed to use on a serviceable vehicle (tyres were like gold dust come 1945) with the front up on blocks of some sort.  But lost interest and sold on the parts I'd collected.