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Crackingjob

Vickers Valiant

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Hi these aircraft were pulled out of service in 1965 due to poorly made wing spars....I wonder what would have happened if they stayed in service?

Edited by Crackingjob

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Not sure it was because they were poorly made, more to do with the change from high to low altitude flying and the wing wasn’t designed for the extra load. 

 

If if they had made it into the 70’s then red/blue national markings and a colour scheme comparable to the Vulcan/Victors would have been probable.

 

Trevor

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As Max says, the wing spars cracked due to excess strain imposed by low level operations. Had we adopted the B.Mk2 with the podded main gear, the rear spar would have been of a different design, and the stress fractures would not have been occurred.

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The excess strain explanation is overused - it was actually the alloy used in manufacture.  One unused spar was sitting at Vickers, tested and found to have similar cracks.  Whilst the Valiant fleet was being grounded and withdrawn, the entire Hastings fleet quietly went through Radlett and had their spars refitted.  Same material.

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1 hour ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

As Max says, the wing spars cracked due to excess strain imposed by low level operations. Had we adopted the B.Mk2 with the podded main gear, the rear spar would have been of a different design, and the stress fractures would not have been occurred.

Not more strain, but more leading/unloading cycles which eventually causes fatigue cracks to propagate.

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As The Wooksta said the alloy used for the spars was at the root of the problem: DTD683 could be stressed simply by working it to its finished shapes and indeed an unused set of spars at Weybridge, probably produced for one of the cancelled XD-serialled Valiants, was found to be cracked.  The change from high-to low-level operations simply accelerated the fatigue process.  

 

There was was allegedly an incident at Woodford where a worker was machining a billet of DTD683 and the stresses induced by this alone caused the piece to almost explode.

 

Had the Valiants remained in service the camouflage scheme would have followed the same path as the Vulcan and Victor, possibly as far as getting "tactical" red and blue national markings had they made it to around 1974/'75.  Don't forget that the Air Ministry and its successor the Misery of Disarmament saw the Valiant very much as a stop-gap pending the arrival of the Vulcan and Victor (and their Mk. 2 derivatives) so any excuse to dispose of the Valiants early was probably seen as a God-send.

Edited by stever219

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Well, quite simply, if they had stayed in service, all the wings would have fallen off. 

 

Having recently read the Valiant Boys book, it seems the second prototype had a massive wing spar failure during a RATOG test, and the crew were lucky to get the plane on the ground. This happened a good 2-3 years before the rest of the fleet were inspected.

 

 

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Wheres the model?:shrug:

And for my tuppence worth ....i think it was a combination of factors ....cyclic....MF724 stuff,change of role and makey learny material science....it was only in the thirties they understood the effects fully of cold temp on the structure of metals and then there is the square window episode if the comet....which sadly killed people....until they realised what the problem was....its all very clear in retrospect but we still make mistakes / unsafe decisions just look at last year...sadly

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On ‎19‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 6:45 PM, junglierating said:

Wheres the model?:shrug:

And for my tuppence worth ....i think it was a combination of factors ....cyclic....MF724 stuff,change of role and makey learny material science....it was only in the thirties they understood the effects fully of cold temp on the structure of metals and then there is the square window episode if the comet....which sadly killed people....until they realised what the problem was....its all very clear in retrospect but we still make mistakes / unsafe decisions just look at last year...sadly

Mistakes they were still making in the 60's with the alloy used on the TSR-2. Chosen because it was light, but it also shattered if struck by a high speed projectile (like an AA round)

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Given the near impossibility of obtaining an Airfix Valiant at anything resembling a reasonable price, I have obtained three Micro Mir 1/144 Valiants for what if subjects. Normally, I avoid 1/144 scale but, needs must...! Besides, with the forthcoming Transport Wings 1/144 Valiant conversion kits, a series B Mk 2 Valiants is now in prospect. Sourcing Sqn uint insignia might be a problem but, where there's a "whif", there's a way!!

 

Allan

 

 

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On ‎05‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 2:10 AM, charlie_c67 said:

So a hemp coloured K.2, 70's style C.3 and Queens Colour Squadron it is then Allan?

:lol:Not a bad idea!! Not too fussed about the Queens Colour Squadron but, the K2 sounds nice. I quite fancy at least one in the Vulcan style wraparound camouflage with perhaps one in Dark Earth/Mid Stone for the Red Flag exercises!!

 

Allan!

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<Metallurgical thread drift> 

I was shocked when I read the RAE report on the Comet 1 disasters to see that some of the fatal cracks in the fuselage had one and even two stop holes drilled close to the crack's origin. The only conclusion being that the cracks had formed during construction and some fitter had stop drilled them (but had they been reported?). When the Comet was re-designed it wasn't just the shape of the fuselage cut-outs that was changed but also the grade of material used, apart from keeping the basic shape they started with a clean sheet of paper.

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