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Viking

Boeing 737-130 Lufthansa. Airfix kit modified. - Now Finished.

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Sprayed the engines with Tamiya acrylic gloss black last night,  ready for some Vallejo Metal Color this morning.

731-48.jpg

 

Black gives the best undercoat for silver. I'm using Vallejo chrome to try and get a nice bright Lufthansa like gleaming finish. I'll leave this to dry thoroughly before doing the thrust reverser in a darker color.

 

731-49.jpg

 

Can't do much more to it today, so I might make a start on the Daco -300.

 

I've been looking at that 737 pic with the apparent 2 tones of grey Ian.

http://m.aviationweek.com/blog/1965-boeing-s-baby-jetliner-five-decades-growth

I've come to the conclusion that the wing is reflecting bright light onto the fuselage, causing that part of the grey to look lighter. You can pretty much see the reflection of the wing on the fuselage.  Any other opinions/thoughts?

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HI John.

Have a look here.

 eda14454ba6526cc3edceaf7c2d78746.jpg

I think Ian is correct regarding the grey WBF

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2 hours ago, stringbag said:

I think Ian is correct regarding the grey WBF

This gets more interesting, you could both be right. But here is my latest theory - the forward end isn't painted at all, it is bare metal.

 

The grey only starts from behind the leading edge, both above & below the wing. Notice particulary the second photo showing the underside. It ties in with where the grey starts on the underside in the top photo.

737.jpg

 

Hope you don't mind me bouncing this one around, Ian definitely spotted something, Chris backed it up,  and I'm intrigued to find an explanation.

 

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In think its too monotone to be natural metal John. I'm probably wrong but I'd go with a darker grey personally.

I'll try and dig a bit deeper when I get a minute and see what else I can find.

 

Chris.

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Hi John,

I'm going to agree with Chris the grey is too monotone to be natural metal. If you compare the engines they curve similarly to the wing body fairing but you can see the varying reflections on them. Unfortunately, the second pic is too low red to really pick out and detail.

I don't think the wing is reflecting light because your first pic shows the different grey areas below the wing too.

To add to the strangeness of this livery if you zoom in to the aviationweek.com link I posted above you can see the tips of the flap canoes are darker grey too, bizarre! 

Cheers,

Ian

PS, just found another pic

https://www.avianews.com/aviation_history/2016/29_10_lufthansa_737farewell.shtml

Edited by Turbofan

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20 hours ago, Turbofan said:

Thanks Ian, that's a really good one of the Lufthansa -100. No doubt that forward end of it is painted. And yet again it shows a different tonal value to the rest.

I'm pretty much convinced now that you & Chris are calling it right.

Now - I'd love to know the reason for it!

 

[Edit] I Should have quit at this point!  But then I go and find a pic confirming beyond a doubt that the fairing is all painted.

Trouble is, its all the same shade of grey!  [/edit] :drunk:

http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/boeing-737.php

 

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Pretty sure its the same grey on the boat fairings as fuse underside and cowlings.. They only used one grey  at Stuttgart touching in/up It does look different on the avianews photo though  but the light. angle changes  and detail plays tricks.

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On ‎25‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 1:17 PM, Viking said:

Any other opinions/thoughts

That's a reflection of the wing, that fuse has all kinds of weird reflections. Look at the back end, looks like its close to the ground, cowling's reflection too.

Edited by bzn20

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Two steps forwards and one step backward this week. I shot a coat of Halfords grey primer over it and it came out looking good.

731-51.jpg

 

Then I sprayed Tamiya white on top. Which showed what the primer didn't! A few nicks and blemishes on top, and a seam line running along from the cockpit, base of the fin, and up the fin itself. Beats me why it all looks good under grey, but sticks out under white. Must be something to do with the gloss shine of the white I suppose. Anyway, it was annoying enough that I had to go back & deal with it.

731-52.jpg

 

It was re-primed today, and then another go with the white. That's better, but what are the odds on that seam re-appearing in a month or two!

731-53.jpg

 

One thing I have learned is to remove the masking from the glazing as soon as the paint is touch dry. Leave it on until all painting is finished, and the white will have hardened to the extent that the tape can rip the surrounding white away. I didn't mask individual glazing panels as I'll be using a Daco silver frame decal at the end.

One thing I'm quite pleased with is how the side profile is so much improved by that Daco clear cockpit section.

731-54.jpg

 

Meanwhile the engines are now painted. I noticed a dark strip along the tops of the cowlings with a little circular panel in quite a bright silver, in pictures on the internet. like this one.The brighter silver is actually 2 shades, as is the dark thrust reverser section. I may have been too subtle as it doesn't really show in these photos.

The front section back to where the dark strip starts is in a duller silver, while the front ring and the rest is brighter.

731-55.jpg

 

One more  word on the great 'are there 2 tones of grey on the wing box' debate - I found  this picture  of D-ABEL still with the original engines, but now with a 'Condor' tail & titles (Condor being the Lufthansa charter division). Looks all the same shade to me. The debate may well continue, but I'm now most convinced by bzn20's case that all the variations are caused by light and reflections.

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NIce progress John, I have similar issues with priming and then laying down white. Perhaps it is the gloss not wanting to fill the gap (or flows as well) which leaves a noticeable seam?.

 

The cockpit looks good.

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This is certainly coming along nicely now, the great are there 2 shades of grey debate is intriguing, I personally think there would only be one, light reflections are a something I can really equate to, having been on the ramp in bright sunshine and deep cloud cover it all changes all the time.

 

For seams, I have for a long time being using superglue, just a tiny amount on the back of a knife run along the seam and then sanded off, has never ever cracked on me.

 

They sure look short those -100's remember seeing one with Ansett NZ  

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Cracking stuff John. I think you're going to have assemble a collection of your builds into a book called "John's Guide on building Model Airliners correctly".

 

I keep looking at my efforts and thinking "you should have followed John's method"........Just makes me want to try harder......or sell my stash. :)

 

mike

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On 04/03/2018 at 7:48 PM, Viking said:

Two steps forwards and one step backward this week. I shot a coat of Halfords grey primer over it and it came out looking good.

 

......

Then I sprayed Tamiya white on top. Which showed what the primer didn't! A few nicks and blemishes on top, and a seam line running along from the cockpit, base of the fin, and up the fin itself. Beats me why it all looks good under grey, but sticks out under white. Must be something to do with the gloss shine of the white I suppose. Anyway, it was annoying enough that I had to go back & deal with it.

 

.....

It was re-primed today, and then another go with the white. That's better, but what are the odds on that seam re-appearing in a month or two!

 

 

 

 

Been there so many times that sanding and respraying the white is pretty much SOP nowadays.

 

Reappearing seams are a complete pain. If I can I will assemble the fuselage then put it away for about six months to "mature" before starting the rest of the build. Of course that requires forward planning which isn't always my strongest point and it isn't possible in the context of a Group Build.

 

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1 hour ago, Skodadriver said:

Reappearing seams are a complete pain. If I can I will assemble the fuselage then put it away for about six months to "mature" before starting the rest of the build.

Sound advice Dave.  Been doing this for years as John will confirm. 

Another vote for the super-glue method of seam filling.

 

Chris.

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7 hours ago, stringbag said:

Been doing this for years as John will confirm. 

:rofl2:

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17 hours ago, stringbag said:

Sound advice Dave.  Been doing this for years as John will confirm. 

Another vote for the super-glue method of seam filling.

 

Chris.

...the only difference being that Dave can remember where he's been putting them away to mature ! :D

 

mike

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A little more progress, I've got the white top masked off. I use Tamiya 10mm tape, sliced into 2mm strips.

731-56.jpg

 

As Tamiya tape is expensive, I fill in the rest with cheapo Wilko general masking tape.

731-57.jpg

Basic tools used.

731-60.jpg

Sprayed with Tamiya XF-80 'Royal Light Grey', which to me is a good approximation for Boeing grey

731-58.jpg

 

731-59.jpg

 

Next up, masking the wings for the coroguard and silver areas to go on. These early 737's had a lot more bare metal areas on the wings than later ones.but I think I have it all worked out now.

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Tamiya XF-80, lock that away in memory banks for future builds once my supply of hardware shop matched Boeing grey runs out.

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The wings are now painted, but it took many hours of boring masking. The early 737 wings weren't the usual coroguard/boeing grey/silver leading edge pattern that is so familiar now. Hours spent googling, reading, & looking at photos resulted in me doing a little drawing to follow.

731-70.jpg

 

First stage was to mask off the areas to remain grey, plus the wing box area. This lot was about 2 hours work;

731-61.jpg

 

731-62.jpg

 

Then a coat of dark grey for the coroguard. I normally have my own brew of Tamiya paints mixed, using pale greys with a touch of silver. This time I wanted a very fresh, dark shade to it, as this was a brand new aircraft and all photos seem to show it with a darkish tone. I decided upon Tamiya XF-66 'Light Grey', and pondered putting a touch of silver in it. In the end i Used it straight from the jar, as I'm going to fully mask the wings & tailplanes when I spray the lower fuselage. I've had bad experiences with tape pulling up the silverish elements of the paint mix.

731-63.jpg

 

731-64.jpg

More masking of the coroguard areas;

731-66.jpg

 

731-67.jpg

Finally, the silver for the bare metal areas, and most of that tape could come off. There are a couple of tiny areas of overspray where I didn't want it, but nothing serious. I'm not entirely happy with the silver (Tamiya XF-16 Flat Aluminium), it has a slightly grainy look to it close up. I may respray the strip to the rear of the coroguard on the wings, if I can find the mental strength to get the masking tape out again!

731-69.jpg

 

731-68.jpg

 

I need a break from this one for a while, I think I'll crack on with the Norway Airlines -300.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes, that is the pain with early B737 and B727 wings, a patchwork of greys and metallics to keep the masking gods happy!

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Hello

 

I was pointed at this thread by a gentleman of the Airlinercafe forum. I have only recently started my first Airliner kit in 40+ years. I normally do 1/48 scale birds and sometimes ships in 1/350 or so...

My 747-100 is progressing slowly...and I also developed a strong itch for a 737. I picked exactly the same LH delivery scheme. I have an Airfix kit arriving and the decals ordered this morning. A question though...how big are those plugs that need to be removed from the fuselage? I expect the kit to arrive soon and a, looking fwd to some nice poly carving and cutting. I am tempted to also get the Daco bird but the shipping from Belgium is a bit steep...maybe next month! ;-)

 

cheers

Uwe

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On 3/16/2018 at 10:03 AM, anj4de said:

A question though...how big are those plugs that need to be removed from the fuselage?

Hi Uwe,

It is 2 sections of 1.57 metres both fore and aft of the wing. (It is the equivalent of 2 windows fore and aft).

 

This has been fighting me a bit. I wasn't happy with the silver finish on the wings, so have sanded it all smooth and started again. Same masking process repeated, but I did the sequence slightly differently as pale grey, silver, and then medium grey for the Coroguard. It has a much better finish now.

731-71.jpg

 

With that done, the wings and tailplanes are now masked off. The whole thing is disappearing under tape! I replaced some taped on the fuselage top where it was starting to peel away, as I've been working on it so long.

731-72.jpg

 

The underside will then be sprayed gloss black as a base for the silver. I've already done it but not got any pics yet.

I was equally dissatisfied with the engines. Looking at photos the main body of the gleams like a mirror. So I'm going to redo that section as well. Masked off ready for redoing some gloss black. I also had a dust spot that came off and revealed a black dot on the surface, so I was going to have to respray anyway.

731-73.jpg

 

Hopefully I'll get these done in the next day or two.

 

 

 

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Sprayed with Tamiya X1 Black mixed with Johnsons Kleer and IPA thinner;

731-74.jpg

 

Sprayed with Alclad Highly polished aluminum. Got all the tape off now! Engines are just dry fitted for now, as is the nose leg.

731-75.jpg

 

Hey, it's even showing those over wing reflections we were discussing earlier in this thread.

731-76.jpg

 

731-77.jpg

 

I decided to mask & paint the black area of the nose. The anti dazzle part is on the decals sheet, but I wont use it.

731-78.jpg

 

I usually make a photocopy of the decal sheet. It is very useful to cut out the cheatlines and test how the fit will be. It is much better to this, than it is to discover problems when you have a wet decal on the model.

731-80.jpg

 

I like this bit!  we get a good idea of what the finished model is going to look like. The cheatline is too long (better than too short!), and I think the rear door is too far back. Also I think D-ABEA lacked the rearmost windows. It looks like It needs a little bit removed between the cockpit and the front door, bringing everything a touch forward. The over wing exit looks a bit far back as well. This is the value of using a photocopy, so I'll have to get over to airliners .net for a check.

731-79.jpg

 

Thanks for looking,

 

John

 

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