Monogram's Old F4U-4B: wings and things

[DMC]

Come 2018, I made a New Year's resolution, quietly to myself, that I would not buy or start another kit (ha!) until I had at least made an effort to finish one or two of the kits that I had started since I enlisted.  But, along the trail of my 70+ years lies the wreckage of more broken resolutions than I could ever remember so no promises with this one.  However, for all you Corsair aficionados,  I will give it my best. 

 

I don't know what it is about these old Monogram kits but they have a particular appeal to me.  The general consensus seems to be that most (but not all) are pretty accurate in outline and are  only let down by their "toy-like features (the early ones) and raised panel lines.   Perhaps, but I have built several over the years and even now I would pick one over the latest offerings from the Far East.  Call me a masochist but.....

 

So, moving on, I started this F4U-4B, box by Revell, last year so it falls within my promise to myself that I would model something that I had already started.  I had started the build by adding detail to the sidewalls of the cockpit and scratched the rear bulkhead and seat.  I am using the kit IP and tops of the consoles.  Etching in the cockpit would probably look better but I'll put the cash towards purchase of resin wheels and a Quickboost engine.

 

The kit cowling and the engine were moulded in one piece and the Cheshire Cat grin was the wrong shape.  I thought I might be able to vac a replacement but after fooling around with a clay mould for a bit, I gave that up as a non-starter.  I tried plunge moulding the lower lip of the grin but, although the shape looked ok, it was too thin to file and sand. 

 

The best result was obtained by baking a clay mould of the lip and then heating a piece of .060 styrene until it took the shape of the mould.  A little fettling and fitting and it looks ok but it is too wide and I need to reduce the width by about two mil. 

 

The ring cowling is the reworked one from the Testor's F8F.  I chucked it in the Tamiya drill and shaped it with a file and sandpaper.  The "firewall" is one of the vacuum formed ring cowlings for the F8F that didn't quite measure up.  The upper exhaust trough needed a little work so I press moulded a replacement and spliced it into the fuselage.

 

So that's where I am at the moment.  Back to the F8F for a bit and then I'll have another crack at fulfilling my resolution.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hmm i was planning a similar build of the Revellogram -4b ? I have a different approach though. I like your cockpit so far but how will you handle the closed canopy and wings i wonder ? I have enough bent wing spare parts to replace the pit, wheels and engine. So i will watch your build with interest and a note pad.   

Edited February 1, 2018 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hmm i was planning a similar build of the Revellogram -4b ? I have a different approach though. I like your cockpit so far but how will you handle the closed canopy and wings i wonder ? I have enough bent wing spare parts to replace the pit, wheels and engine. So i will watch your build with interest and a note pad.   

 

Well, as for the canopy, as you can see, I have removed the moulded on kit framework.  I have had some success with vac and plunge moulding, and as I have a good supply of Pet G, I will attempt to make my own.  Not sure about the wings as I haven’t looked into that far ahead.  They won’t be folded, however.

 

Out of a choice of three kits,  I chose the Corsair after I happened across this gentleman’s build when I was having a browse.

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/corsair-f4u-4-1-48-revell.46959/

 

And, I will be guided by the excellent plans in Modelmania no. 9 F4u-1, -4 and Bert Kinzey’s  In detail and Scale F4U Corsair. So, as it’s the sort of thing I like to do, we’ll see how things work out. 

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

[matti64]

A very interesting challenge, I have a couple of these old Monogram F4U's and Have been encouraged by a friend to resurect them. Despite his pleas that they  are worth the effort, I have so far resisted. Perhaps this thread will bring me around...

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Dennis ... I read thru the build you referenced, it was well done. I like what im seeing so far with your build, and I definitely will follow and take some notes as you might do things i hadnt thought of. 

 

Dennis

 

yes we share a name.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[DMC]

22 minutes ago, matti64 said:

A very interesting challenge, I have a couple of these old Monogram F4U's and Have been encouraged by a friend to resurect them. Despite his pleas that they  are worth the effort, I have so far resisted. Perhaps this thread will bring me around...

 

16 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Dennis ... I read thru the build you referenced, it was well done. I like what im seeing so far with your build, and I definitely will follow and take some notes as you might do things i hadnt thought of. 

 

Dennis

 

yes we share a name.

Excellent, I’m sure we’ll all learn something then.  Advice and suggestions appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

[DMC]

I took the liberty of copying the plan and profile views out of Modelmaina #9 and compared the kit wings and fuselage with the drawings.  Not sure how accurate the drawings are but they are very detailed and they look pretty good to me. Heck, you've got to start somewhere.  

 

The drawing wingspan is almost spot on, maybe a couple of scale inches too long. The kit wing is okay for span but is too narrow by some, what?, 5 or 6 scale inches based on the plan drawing.  But the shape holds up.

 

The fuselage is a bit short, again, based on the profile drawing.  The shape is okay but the vertical stab and rudder need work.  

 

I spliced a bit of styrene in to raise the height and angle it forward a bit.  

 

None of these "faults" is a deal breaker for me.  I'll carry on with the build and I'm pretty sure it will bear a reasonable resemblance to a Corsair (It would even without me fooling around with it.)  Pretty curious, however, about how the more recent kits would hold up when compared with the drawings.

 

(Sorry, photo quality not that good.)

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DMC]

So, after looking the old bird over for other things that might need fixin, I homed in on the wing intakes.  Not bad but not quit right.  The intakes are a little short in length and the end nearest the wing is rounded off and it should be squared off.  The kit intakes are a pretty complex moulding and could do with resin replacement inserts but to my knowledge none exist.  

 

I decided to have a go at making my own using my accumulated experience with plunge moulding over the last couple of years.  Using clay again (Sculpey) I shaped and baked a mould for the intakes.  The mould wasn't that good the first time and it took a bit of plunging and reshaping, plunging and reshaping until I was satisfied I couldn't improve on it.  Improvement became an obsession and a necessity as I had enlarged the wing opening to fit the replacement intake.

 

To get the rolled edge of the surround I had to turn the pressed intake over quickly and press a wooden male mould into the hot styrene.  This worked quite well providing I was quick enough and the styrene was hot enough.

 

After a bit of fettling, the new intake fit right in and I am about 80% ok with it but to my eyes, and compared with reference photos,  the opening looks a little large.  If the OCD kicks in I might have to try one more plunge or try lining it with styrene strips.   

 

Cheers

 

Dennis 

 

[DJJunis]

Dennis,

Once again and epic build. This is fantastic.

Thanks for sharing.

All the Best!

Don

[DMC]

Many thanks, Don, pleased you like it.

 

Dennis

[Tzulscha]

Whew! 

That's a lot of time and effort on that old kit.

I've proably built that thing about a dozen times over the years, but I spent more time getting the landing gers to work than correcting it's faults..

It looks like you'll actually have a Corsair when you get through all that.

Keep on it! 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Tzulscha said:

That's a lot of time and effort on that old kit.

Yes it is, and it's a curse but messing with them is what I like to do.  I know there are better kits of, say, the Corsair to be had but I like to solve problems and this kit has plenty that need solving.  So, yes, I will keep at for the time being at least.  Might even finish this one.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Tzulscha]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Yes it is, and it's a curse but messing with them is what I like to do.  

And that's the point really isn't it?

We hobbyists do incredibly difficult, tedious and frustrating projects because that's what we like to do.

 

Good on you and I sincerely hope it works out in the end.

In the meantime, I will be watching this thread to see what sort of solutions you come up with.

Good luck!

[k5054nz]

I'm with the others, it's always nice to see someone apply their talent to old kits that have been surpassed by newer offerings. I enjoy seeing the problem solving and the extra work being put in to make it right.

 

Bravo Dennis, keep up the good work!

[DMC]

6 hours ago, k5054nz said:

I'm with the others, it's always nice to see someone apply their talent to old kits that have been surpassed by newer offerings. I enjoy seeing the problem solving and the extra work being put in to make it right.

 

Bravo Dennis, keep up the good work!

Thanks, Zac, plenty of problem solving and extra work on this one.

 

Dennis

[DMC]

Ok, not really happy with wing intake.  Here it is compared to the kit intake.  Decided to try once more with another mould.  Wide enough now and narrower.  Tightened up the clearances on the balsa female mould (only need about one mil or less) tried again.  This plunge pretty good.  The bottom lip a bit fat so maybe one more try.  This last one better, bottom lip thinner.  It's a keeper.  Just need now to match the port wing intake to this one.  When I made the latest mould I halved a shaped clay log, one for each side. 

 

This was a big hurdle to get over (finally).  Couldn't get over it until I was satisfied.  I'm going to give the F8F a little attention now.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

ALmost forgot to include Tailspintopic’s excellent primer on modelling the -4.

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/f4u-4-modelers-notes.html

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by DMC
Link

[Uncle Uncool]

 I'm in for yet another DMC experience.

My mate; you really make it look so easy! I learn a lot from your WIPs everytime.

Cheers, Dennis.

 

Unc²

Edited February 7, 2018 by Uncle Uncool

[DMC]

Hello, Uncle.  Welcome back, pleased you are enjoying the build.  

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[DMC]

What drops through the mail slot while I'm working on the Bearcat but this Quickboost P&W that I'd ordered for the Corsair. Naturally, I had to set the Bearcat aside and see about fitting it to the Corsair.  It is identical to the Quickboost P&W for the Testors F8F, same magnetos, etc.

 

As the reference photos in the Tailhook Topics piece on the -4 show much larger magnetos I scratched a pair just guessing at the size.  They are quite large in the T T photo and I think I got pretty close.

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/f4u-4-modelers-notes.html

 

No problem fitting it inside the cowl and cowl ring as the Quickboost P&W is somewhat undersized.  Since the rest of the model looks pretty near spot on, I can only guess that Quickboost made it deliberately smaller to fit inside a model cowl.  Or maybe not?

 

Anyway, it fits inside the Monogram cowl with room to spare.  Looking at the bottom photo, I reckon the Quickboost one is about 9/10 scale inches too small in diameter.  In the phoro, the full size P&W looks like it almost touches the cowling.

 

Just as a matter of interest I set out four different Kit P&Ws.  Top left is AMT's F7F one (very nice, even with the moulded on pushrod tubes)

Top right is Testor's F8F one.  Pretty simple.  Bottom right is the Quickboost version and last is the Hobbyboss one with the larger drum-like magnetos (magnetos not shown).  

 

The Testors F7F one is probably the best of the bunch.  I fact, the entire kit looks pretty good and I am itching to get started on it.  I will, however, try and stick to my resolution and finish what I have previously started.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by DMC
Link

[DMC]

Ok, seguing now over to the Corsair and re-checking the outline measurements, I am surprised to discover that the kit outline doesn't quite match the best set of drawings I have on the dash 4. Not sure how I overlooked it but matching the fuselage to the drawings required a bit of major surgery and a styrene wedge for and aft.  The front wedge raised the cowling just enough for it to match the slight slope that is easy to overlook.  The rear wedge raises the spine a couple of mm at the cockpit.  The cowling needs to be extended a couple of mm also.

 

Thought about where to make the cuts for a while so I wouldn't make a complete mess of things.  I used label tape to mark the cut lines.  I'd always had trouble getting the tape to stick until someone cleverer than me suggested taping the tape to sticky masking tape and then taping that to the place to be scribed.  Thank you if it was someone on BM.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

 

[DMC]

Dropping the flaps seems to be de rigueur on Corsair models so I set about getting that little chore out of the way.  To get the rounded off inboard edge I plunge moulded them using simple balsa male and female moulds.   Because of the gull wings I carved a little curve into the middle flap and only a slight curve in the one closer to the fuselage.  I used .030 styrene for the moulded part and .020 for the bottoms of the flaps.  The only parts of the kit I used were the narrow top pieces.  The kit wings are about six scale inches too narrow and I've made up the difference by making the flaps wider.  I'll need to widen the ailerons also.

 

After a couple hours of faffing around, I managed to get the wing intakes (one of them anyway) sorted to my satisfaction.  The three vanes on the -4 start out straight but curve in the closer they get to the oil cooler radiator (?).   I made a quick rectangle of styrene to represent the radiator that can just barely be seen through the vanes.  The round filter is quite large but the perforated holes are very small so I've made no attempt to replicate them in this scale.

 

As anyone familiar with this kit knows, the landing gear was made to rotate and fold.  After clipping off the folding mechanism, I had to rig some sort of mounting system for the lg.  Best way seemed to be pressing a bit of styrene tubing on the end of the kit piece and then measuring out and drilling a hole straight through the wing.  When I'm ready to mount the lg I can easily adjust the angle and height.  The wheels are not bad.  They have a faint diamond tread on them that I might try to score just a little deeper.  Temma did it with a sort of box affair for his Hellcat build.  

 

I had to make and extend the firewall out to match the extension I made to get the cowling to match the drawings I'm using.  I used another one of the duff cowlings I'd moulded for the F8F.

 

Also tried to match the port wing intake by sculpting the starboard side one.  

 

The cockpit is coming along but not quite finished.  After the trouble I had with the etched belts on the F8F, I decided to try these Super Fabric ones from Eduard.  They look pretty good, just hope they are easier to work with.

 

That's about it for the Corsair for the time being.  Need to get back on the Bearcat and get a little more done on it.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

 

[David H]

I am finding this fascinating to watch.

 

I don't know very much about the -4 Corsair compared to the earlier variants, but i did build the Monogram Corsair as a young lad at least twice. I have the same book you are using for reference, and i thought about taking my Hasegawa/ Mania F4U-4 and giving it similar treatment.

 

I also like how you fabricated the stainless steel "Dishpan" that goes behind the engine.

 

-d-

[DMC]

2 hours ago, David H said:

am finding this fascinating to watch.

Thanks, David, and good luck with the conversion should you decide to have a go.  I expect the Hasegawa kit would be a lot easier to convert than the one I'm doing.  Should you decide not to vacuumform  the "dishpan" and still want one, let me know I might have a spare that I can send you.

 

Dennis

 

[David H]

I think you managed to capture the profile of the -4 fuselage better than either Academy or Hasegawa. The Hasegawa , while better at the front end, has the pronounced "Beer Gut" lower rear fuselage that makes the fuselage look porky.

 

-d-

[Johnny1000]

@DMC where to start? The fuselage profile looks great. That's a bold move. The engine looks good, and the air intakes are a project unto their own. Nicely done so far! Looking forward to seeing this continue to come together.

 

-J