Invasion stripes, any pointers?

[Neil.C]

I like the look of invasion stripes but have shied away from them as I am sure I would mess them up!

 

Are there any easy methods to paint these or is it just masking up and brushing the paint on?

 

Any helpful techniques?

[Graham Boak]

The easy way is to paint the whole area white and then add black stripe transfers.  Otherwise yes, mask away.  Either way, getting a satisfactory white finish is probably easier with spraying than brushing.

[Lawzer]

The hardest part i find with the masking is on the fuselage as it's (mostly) not a uniform flat surface (usually tapering from cockipit to tail).  I've still to find the perfect method but have had some success using 2mm tamiya tape to wrap round the top and bottom curves and normal tape for the sides.  It's easier to get the narrow stuff to conform better.  Bear in mind since the stripes were usually applied with what ever tools were at hand (broom anyone  ) a not-quite-straight line isn't necessarily a bad thing

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ive done both methods for stripes, brushed and sprayed. The real trick with brushing is really thin the white down, and do several coats to build the color up. After that its just measuring and masking to make the stripes at least look even never mind straight. 

[Scott Hemsley]

You could always free-hand brush it, like they did back then.   When the order came down (late) June 5th, (I believe), there wasn't really time to mask  ,.,, at best, just follow a crudely measured chalk outline, and use anything that spread paint.  If you look online, you're bound to find plenty of period photos with less-than-perfect Invasion Stripes. 

 

However if you must mask and you're doing 1/72, the 6mm wide Tamyia tape measures out to a scale 18" - the width of the stripes used on aircraft like the Spitfire, Typhoon, Mustang, etc.  Spray the white and using the tape, mask of each stripe (white & black).  Remove the 'black' stripes, spray and presto ... invasion stripes.  I just did the 1/72 Eduards Spit IXc that way with no problems.  Of course,, my masking wasn't perfect ... or was it? 

 

 

Scott

Edited January 28, 2018 by Scott Hemsley

[Enzo the Magnificent]

2 minutes ago, Scott Hemsley said:

You could always free-hand brush it, like they did back then.   When the order came down (late) June 5th, (I believe),out  there wasn't time to mask  ,,, at best, just follow a crudely measured chalk outline, and use anything that spread paint.  If you look online, you're bound to find plenty of period photos with less-than-perfect Invasion Stripes.

 

True enough. However, I find that an attempt to represent the crudely applied stripes just ends up looking like bad modelling. 

 

Many years ago I built an etched brass kit of a Fowler 4F steam locomotive. I was trying to replicate a photo of a very dilapidated example in British Railways service. The cab had been erected very badly indeed and it looked like a ricketty old garden shed.  I matched the photo almost perfectly then took a step back. On the model it looked like the cab had been built by a small child with its head in a bag.   I unsoldered the cab and rebuilt it nice and square...

 

 

[CedB]

My 'go to' method is the one used by Jaime here. Not that I always take that much care, but worth a look

[Ed Russell]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

The easy way is to paint the whole area white and then add black stripe transfers.  Otherwise yes, mask away.  Either way, getting a satisfactory white finish is probably easier with spraying than brushing.

That worked for me

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/59796-pru-raf-mustang-iii-hobbyboss-172/

 

[neilh]

I spray mine but this would also work for brush painting ( but use very thin coats to avoid build up of a ridge in the paint). Most difficult part is getting parallel stripes on a tapering fuselage ( like a Spitfire). I usually paint the stripes before the camouflage. I start with a pair of dividers and mark out the front and back edge of the whole set of stripes making a tiny mark with the point of the dividers. I then repeat using various points on the kit such as a panel line that is a constant reference point to the top , side and bottom of the fuselage, so that each mark should be in exactly the same place relative to say the cockpit and the tail all the way around the fuselage.  I then use the front and back reference points and the dividers to mark where each stripe will start and finish in the same way. I then paint the white area and when dry use very thin ( 1-2mm) strips of Tamiya to mark the front and back of each white stripe using the little marks to ensure the tape is parallel around the circumference of the fuselage. I then fill in the gap with maskol or scrap tape.  Then paint the black and once dry cover the lot and paint the rest of the aircraft. Hopefully when you remove the masks you have nice parallel B & W stripes.

[Sabrejet]

I'm with the 'ragged, brush-painted' brigade: unless you're modelling a modern warbird, the correct application for most schemes would be rough-and-ready, with no real worries over equal widths, parallel lines etc. Take a look at period photos and you'll see what a mess they looked in-period. Unfortunately the parallel, uniform line for these stripes is a relatively recent mistake made by the kit manufacturers and considering they usually make a big deal on the accuracy of their products I find it a strange habit.

 

The last great misconception in modelling?  

[Smithy]

It is so true about the raggedness of invasion stripes. Certainly they didn't all look like they were painted by a chimpanzee with a sneezing fit and eating an orange at the same time but the fact of the matter is the laser precise decals just don't look like the actually wartime examples.

 

If it was me, I'd go for painted and the tips above for using several layers of thinned paint are excellent, especially if you're going to brush paint.

[Graham Boak]

yes, but... beware of photos that show very ragged and rough painting going on.  This was followed by going over the joins to get it rather neater.  And once these little wobbles and weaves are reduced in scale, then they don't look anything like as bad.   In the end impressions matter.  A roughly painted model looks as though the modeller has done a bad job, like it or not.

[Smithy]

29 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

yes, but... beware of photos that show very ragged and rough painting going on.  This was followed by going over the joins to get it rather neater.  And once these little wobbles and weaves are reduced in scale, then they don't look anything like as bad.   In the end impressions matter.  A roughly painted model looks as though the modeller has done a bad job, like it or not.

 

That's true about a badly painted model Graham but there's a difference between that and modelling a paint scheme which was not absolutely perfect. The laser precision decals that manufacturers include in kits just don't cut the mustard even at 1/72 scale.The problem is one of modeller perception which you see with many things especially with the advent of the internet, modellers are so conditioned to see builds looking a certain way from the myriad examples they see online. With invasion stripes they are so used to seeing these beautiful builds with expertly applied kit decal stripes which look the bee's knees yet if you look at virtually any period photo of aircraft with them they just are not absolutely perfect like the kit supplied offerings. I've seen this in other ways since I got back into modelling in 2001, models not based on reality or period images but based on other modellers' perfect interpretations and executions of subjects. I never base my builds (as ham-fisted as they are) on other modellers' builds but always try to do so on period photos.

[Graham Boak]

I suspect that there are a number of areas in modern modelling where I would agree with you.  However not in this case - I was modelling long before the internet and I suspect that the advice preceded my time.  On the one hand period images of these aircraft do not generally show waviness, raggedness and roughness, other than in initial application.  There are a few which do appear slightly uneven, especially in close-up, but anything more than this just doesn't show in the small scales - I'm a 1/72 modeller myself.  And on the other hand, even if on such models it was perfectly replicated in entirely accurate scale, it would still look as though the modeller had fouled up.  I would suggest that this is a matter of human perception rather than simple replication.

 

Of course, if you want to do a diorama of an aircraft being in the middle of being painted with these stripes, then that's another matter.  Then it is clear to the viewer just what is happening.

[Smithy]

I respectfully still disagree with you Graham. Even in 1/72 scale you would still see a small degree of unevenness. There's simply no way the completely straight and absolutely laser fine border between the black and white that you see on decals is realistic. It's just too perfect. Here's Geoff Page's IX and there's no way those stripes and even the border between the stripes and the upper camo on the leading edge is ever going to look precisely straight even scaled down to 1/72.

 

 

 

[Black Knight]

5 hours ago, Neil.C said:

I like the look of invasion stripes but have shied away from them as I am sure I would mess them up!

 

Are there any easy methods to paint these or is it just masking up and brushing the paint on?

 

Any helpful techniques?

To ignore the age-old argument over ragged/precise

I paint the camo colour, mask up and spray the white, that way if the white is not a pure white coverage the camo shows through a wee bit. Then I mask up and paint the black stripes with a hairy-stick brush

[Ed Russell]

trying to make the image about 1/72 on my monitor it looks fairly sharp lines.

Steve Eisenman on Hyperscale put up a whole load of pictures a few years ago with every variation from rough to precise. My advice is model from a picture if you can find one.

[Aardvark]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

stripes with a hairy-stick brush

Аs we see on 
this photo from collection IWM:

THE SUEZ CRISIS (OPERATION MUSKETEER) 1956. © IWM (A 33611) IWM Non Commercial License

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205187822

(A Hawker Sea Hawk FGA.6 of No 897 Naval Air Squadron receives its Anglo-French identification markings on board HMS EAGLE in October 1956)

at Royal Navy nothing has exchanged also 11 years later after the end of World War II!

B.R.

Serge

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by Aardvark

[The Good Sergeant]

My thoughts.

 

LINK

 

Steven Brown
Scale Model Soup

[Calum]

5 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

I'm with the 'ragged, brush-painted' brigade: unless you're modelling a modern warbird, the correct application for most schemes would be rough-and-ready, with no real worries over equal widths, parallel lines etc. Take a look at period photos and you'll see what a mess they looked in-period. Unfortunately the parallel, uniform line for these stripes is a relatively recent mistake made by the kit manufacturers and considering they usually make a big deal on the accuracy of their products I find it a strange habit.

 

The last great misconception in modelling?  

I'd disagree it's a mistake. I actually think it's more representative .

 

You can find as many photos of aircraft with nice neat stripes as you can messy ones.

 

IIRC the order for the D Day stripes came on the 3rd June and it was quite specific as to where and how wide the markings were to be (e.g. 5 x stripes 18 inches wide)   so there was time for units to apply them in a uniform pattern.  I'll acknowledge though that some units did, some units didn't. The USAAF units seemed to have quite tidy markings as a general rule.

 

Also when you scale down those messy lines they get straighter (or the look neater/more uniform) The smaller the model the straighter /more uniform they should look IMHO. The photo most people post as an example of how rough it was is IMHO not typical.

 

And of course recognition stripes were used long prior to D day. They were used in Operation Starkey and Typhoons had them painted on the underside well before (years)  D Day.

 

As for painting, I airbrush mine. If you airbrush black first you'll use less tape. White first more end up with more masking to do. I think it's easier to black first then white. White paint (Tamiya in particular) I've found sprays well over black

[Wm Blecky]

7 hours ago, Scott Hemsley said:

However if you must mask and you're doing 1/72, the 6mm wide Tamyia tape measures out to a scale 18" - the width of the stripes used on aircraft like the Spitfire, Typhoon, Mustang, etc.  Spray the white and using the tape, mask of each stripe (white & black).  Remove the 'black' stripes, spray and presto ... invasion stripes.  I just did the 1/72 Eduards Spit IXc that way with no problems.  Of course,, my masking wasn't perfect ... or was it? 

 

Scott

What a fantastic idea!  Thanks for sharing that one Scott.

[Chillidragon]

On rough finishes, I remember a suggestion on an instruction sheet for an armoured vehicle (Hasegawa?  Esci?) that, when depicting hand painted Panzer numerals it is better to lay down a transfer, then add drips and runs with a fine brush.  I have no gift for lettering in any scale and my past attempts bore out this advice. I confess that I have no idea how to translate that to invasion stripes.  I do agree with the idea that irregularities introduced by a 12 inches to 1 foot (or 1000mm to 1m) scale modeller will look like 1/1 bad craftsmanship, inversely proportionate with scale; i.e. smaller scale, worse effect. 

Wavering brushwork in scale at (say) 1/72 will be almost invisible in most cases, but if I were doing this I'd look very carefully at references and at the very least start from a degree of precision.

 

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Аs we see on 
this photo from collection IWM:

THE SUEZ CRISIS (OPERATION MUSKETEER) 1956. © IWM (A 33611) IWM Non Commercial License

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205187822

(A Hawker Sea Hawk FGA.6 of No 897 Naval Air Squadron receives its Anglo-French identification markings on board HMS EAGLE in October 1956)

at Royal Navy nothing has exchanged also 11 years later after the end of World War II!

B.R.

Serge

 

Please do not selectively use my statements out of context. I clearly said I paint the black stripes with a brush - on my models

[Black Knight]

8 hours ago, Scott Hemsley said:

However if you must mask and you're doing 1/72, the 6mm wide Tamyia tape measures out to a scale 18" - the width of the stripes used on aircraft like the Spitfire, Typhoon, Mustang, etc.  Spray the white and using the tape, mask of each stripe (white & black).  Remove the 'black' stripes, spray and presto ... invasion stripes.  I just did the 1/72 Eduards Spit IXc that way with no problems.  Of course,, my masking wasn't perfect ... or was it? 

Error; 18 inches is 6.35mm not 6 mm, over 5 stripes you'll be out 5 x 0.35 = 1.75mm. Doesn't sound much but in 1/72 that is nearly 5 inches in 1:1 - it can throw the positioning of other markings out on the fuselage and wings

[Aardvark]

3 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Please do not selectively use my statements out of context. I clearly said I paint the black stripes with a brush - on my models

But your method paint  invasion

strips of coincides with what was in reality, therefore you to paint invasion strips an authentic way!

Only and everything that I wanted to tell!

The technique of 

paint invasion strips

by means of an air brush is well illustrated 
in this book:

https://ak-interactive.com/product/aircraft-scale-modelling-f-a-q-2/

(Aircraft scale modelling F.A.Q. Daniel Zamarbide. AK Interactive.2016
ISBN: 8436535572767 )

The step-by-step photo manual occupies only one page - 392!

But for obvious reasons, I can't bring him in a topic.
( But I can send to you this page Private Message!)
However, there are no new technologies there! 
1. Marking of borders of strips of invasion.

2.To mask surfaces, adjacent to borders of strips.

3.Painting in white color.

4. Marking a pencil under a line of strips of black color.

5. Maskings of white strips masking tape. 6. Painting in black color.

7. Removal of masking tape.

That's it!

 

I think that at painting stages in black and white colors is also possible

use various model technic as weathering, dry brushing, mud technic, dirt technic, salt technic, chiping e.t.c.

 

B.R.

Serge