Spitfire Vc codes-serials

[Graham Boak]

The new Airfix Spitfire Mk.Vc has a SAAF Spitfire Vc of 2 SAAF with 4 cannon: JL115 DB.V, quoted as Gioia del Colle October 1943.  No bomb rack.

 

Does anyone know the earliest that 2 SAAF had 4-cannon Spitfires?  The aircraft in your link (including JL115/V) only seem to have two cannon.

[M20gull]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The new Airfix Spitfire Mk.Vc has a SAAF Spitfire Vc of 2 SAAF with 4 cannon: JL115 DB.V, quoted as Gioia del Colle October 1943.  No bomb rack.

 

Does anyone know the earliest that 2 SAAF had 4-cannon Spitfires?  The aircraft in your link (including JL115/V) only seem to have two cannon.

I cannot find any reference to 4 cannon aircraft before 25 November.  All of the Spitfires go to Malta on 2 Nov for fitting the second cannon.  When this is first mooted it suggests that the machine guns will be removed but fighter operations with the 4 cannon still carry machine guns rounds.  

[M20gull]

2 hours ago, M20gull said:

The addition of the cannon to the 2 SAAF Vc was done in Malta during Novmber 1943.  The day after their return the ORB quotes for 26 Nov 1943 "As this squadron was the first in the wing to do dive-bombing with Spitfires an aircraft was sent out today by the Photographic Unit to take photographs of the squadron whilst dive-bombing."  I wonder if this is when the photos here were taken. 2 SAAF describe the Spitfire as "most unsuitable as a dive-bomber ... and would prefer the old Kittyhawk"!

The bomb racks are put on an off when needed.  On ops it looks like they only use a single GP250lb per aircraft so presumably on the centre line.  When used as a fighter they usually carry a 30 gallon drop tank.  

 

I was wondering why they did not repaint them while they were in Malta for three week.

On a bombing test on 21 October the Vcs have 2 250lb bombs each but that does not seem to be repeated on subsequent ops.

[Graham Boak]

Malta did have some kind of a side-by side carrier for the centreline, seen with tanks for convoy coverage duty, but apparently the Mk.Vc didn't have the underwing fittings.  On the other hand I don't know what was done to Mk.IXs to make it possible.  On the other hand, Malta did have a modification of their own for an underwing 250lb bomb, but it was quite a major mod so unlikely to be done in a couple of weeks for a whole squadron.

 

If they didn't have the four cannon fit until Nov.25th, the the date is wrong for the new Airfix kit.  Four cannon would definitely rule out the Malta mod for the bombs.  A Spitfire with 4 cannon and 4 machine guns would be somewhat clumsy - that's why they were not adopted more commonly (to the disappointment of the Admiralty) and the second cannon was taken out on Malta.  That much weight and a bomb - definitely low-level work.

[M20gull]

Every time I look I see something new (or correct something I got wrong the first time!).  On the flight on 21 October (i.e. when still 2 cannon) which is the report here it is actually described as armed recce and shows drop tank, 2 bombs, cannon and machine gun!

[Seahawk]

Price's Spitfire At War 1 has on page 88 a (rather murky) photo of an underwing 250lb bomb rack for the Spitfire V devised by the unit personnel of 126 Squadron in Italy.

[M20gull]

I wasn’t looking for it but this is a great shot of a 152 squadron Vb with underwing bombs in Tunisia.

[M20gull]

Back on the original topic JL115 DB-V submits a combat report on 29 November for a damaged Me109 and the operation report is only for 4 cannon machines.

[tonyot]

On 1/26/2018 at 4:16 PM, gingerbob said:

Don't these have four cannon?  It is hard to see, but I think the end of the outer cannon is just visible as a dark spot.  (image 7 if link doesn't take you direct)

Spitfire LR68- coded S on those pics is actually a Seafire,....looks like a Mk.IIc,..... maybe Salerno? Some great pics there bud. 

[tonyot]

3 hours ago, M20gull said:

I wasn’t looking for it but this is a great shot of a 152 squadron Vb with underwing bombs in Tunisia.

I`d always had that one down as a Malta based Spit,.... never seen it credited to 152 Sqn before,.... so cheers. 

 

[tonyot]

This 2 Sqn SAAF 4 cannon Mk.Vc crashed on the 17th December 1943 at Palata in Italy and survived long enough to have the Mid Stone areas of its camouflage re painted using a Dark Green,.... maybe RAF paint,...USAAF Olive Drab or even using captured paint,... I have read of all three being used on various desert finished types such as Spit`s, Kittyhawk`s, Boston`s and Baltimore`s in Italy and Sicily? 

 

 

 

Note the DH propeller (with broad blades) and an oil collector fitted behind the spinner. Speaking of DH spinners,... that in the Airfix kit needs to be sanded to make it look less bulbous and more like this,..... I`ve just done it with two RAAF Spit`s that I`m building,... so it is easy enough,... just fiddly and a shame it needs to be altered. 

 

Cheers mate

                 Tony

Edited January 13, 2021 by tonyot

[gingerbob]

11 hours ago, tonyot said:

Some great pics there bud. 

 

Umm, you just slam-dunked me (I trust you understand the jargon) when it comes to great pics!  I think it was the 7th photo [on the page that I linked to, according to Tony's quote] that I meant to link to, not just a collection.

 

bob

Edited January 14, 2021 by gingerbob

[M20gull]

9 hours ago, tonyot said:

This 2 Sqn SAAF 4 cannon Mk.Vc crashed on the 17th December 1943 at Palata in Italy and survived long enough to have the Mid Stone areas of its camouflage re painted using a Dark Green,.... maybe RAF paint,...USAAF Olive Drab or even using captured paint,... I have read of all three being used on various desert finished types such as Spit`s, Kittyhawk`s, Boston`s and Baltimore`s in Italy and Sicily? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note the DH propeller (with broad blades) and an oil collector fitted behind the spinner. Speaking of DH spinners,... that in the Airfix kit needs to be sanded to make it look less bulbous and more like this,..... I`ve just done it with two RAAF Spit`s that I`m building,... so it is easy enough,... just fiddly and a shame it needs to be altered. 

 

Cheers mate

                 Tony

Thank you for the pictures.  I note that this one (unlike those in the video and related photos) is dark through the canopy suggesting already repainted (have I got that right?).

 

The "mechanic taken up on tailplane" that caused this crash was BL Watson, aged 19, who was thrown from the plane when it hit the ground and died. The pilot's first plane was u/s and in the rush to catch up he didn't notice the erk.

Edited January 14, 2021 by M20gull
Remove quoted photos

[tonyot]

17 minutes ago, M20gull said:

Thank you for the pictures.  I note that this one (unlike those in the video and related photos) is dark through the canopy suggesting already repainted (have I got that right?).

 

The "mechanic taken up on tailplane" that caused this crash was BL Watson, aged 19, who was thrown from the plane when it hit the ground and died. The pilot's first plane was u/s and in the rush to catch up he didn't notice the erk.

That is very sad,... thanks for the update re the crash,.... RIP.

Yes, it is dark through the cockpit because the Mid Stone has been covered over with Dark Green.

[M20gull]

Might be my final comment. As soon as the 2 SAAF planes arrive, 4 SAAF send their 16 Vcs off to Malta for the 4 cannon conversion returning on 13 December. I cannot find much in the way of aircraft numbers and no photos.  When they are lost on operations as dive bombers they are replaced with 2 cannon versions.

Edited January 15, 2021 by M20gull

[Juan R-S]

After looking at the video and pic posted, it seems the right fuselage had a third color on it. Could be a fresh paint over existing. You can see this on the fuselage right side but cannot see this on the wings. These patches can be seen behind the exhaust and around the roundel.  I am not throwing gasoline on a color issue dispute. Just pointing out. Hopefully our wiser ones will offer some guidance over these color discrepancies.