johnd Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Morning all! I notice that the Airfix Red Arrows Gnat starter set (A55105) has Humbrol 19 for the main colour. However, I read that in their last few seasons the Gnats had 'Red Arrows Red' (Humbrol 238?) paintwork. As the markings in the kit appear to be for a later example (1978/9), which paint should I be using? Thanks, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 According to a rather splendid IPMS publication that came out with the magazine a little while back the Gnats were painted BS381c:538 Post Office Red (now renamed Cherry Red) during the entirety of their Red Arrows career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 That's what I wanted to hear, to be honest. I fancied painting that one in Post Office red and if I get round to buying a Hawk, doing that one in that funny orangey colour Arrow Red (Hu238), for contrast. Cheers, John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat C Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 John - you may find this thread of interest:- I'm still not sure what red Humbrol 238 is supposed to represent - I used it on my Gnat and thought it looked fine as Cherry/ PO red. The Xtracrylix Red Arrows red (Signal Red) is certainly a very orangey colour meant for the Hawks. Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I believe humbrol 19 is actually meant to be post office/cherry red, so using it is actually quite apt, quite a few of humbrols colours are actually meant or wore meant to be in the British standard range 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 That was my understanding: Hu19 is Post Office/Cherry Red, Hu238 is Red Arrows Red. Originally I thought the former was for Gnats and the latter for Hawks. Then I read that Red Arrows Red was used on Gnats (probably in the thread linked above) and now I just don't know. The safest thing, I suppose, would be to find some markings for an early Gnat. Are there any? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat C Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 ..and Hu174 is Signal Red which should be the colour for Hawks!!! https://www.humbrol.com/us-en/red-arrows-gnat-1-48.html Airfix are recommending 238 for the 1/48th Gnat above. But perhaps they also thought that they were painted Signal Red in '77 rather than PO Red?? But then why have both Hu174 and Hu238 if they are supposed to be the same colour?? For decals the sheet you want is by S & M Models who did a sheet where you can model pretty much any Gnat T1. The 72nd sheet is showing out of stock on their website but you could email Mel who runs it and see when it will be reprinted. And then you could do a yellow one as well! Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) HUnbrol 174 is meant to be BSc537 signal red which is the trainer red used for example on the jet provost. Post office red/cherry red which as I said humbrol 19 is meant to be is BSc538 . There’s a problem though a as red arrows red is humbrol 238 but also BSc537 Edited January 17, 2018 by PhantomBigStu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat C Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I've dug out both Hu174 and 238 and they are definitely different shades. I would say 238 is more red and less orange than 174 but lacks the deep red hue I would associate with PO red. I did spray my Gnat with 238 and weirdly it looks much darker on the model than in the pot but possibly I sprayed over grey primer which may have affected the tone. Not sure any of that helps, John!! Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 It helps in that I'm wondering if a yellow one would be the way forward 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 4 hours ago, johnd said: It helps in that I'm wondering if a yellow one would be the way forward 🙂 Is that with or without the black tail? Selwyn (Running for cover!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Selwyn said: Is that with or without the black tail? Aaaaaaaaaargh! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT 876 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hi The Gnats did not have the same colour as the Hawks, the HU 238 Red Arrows Red paint is for the Hawks only. Gnats you can use HU 19 this should be fine. BS381C:538 "Post Office Red" (Gnats) and 537 Signal Red (Hawks) Ref the Yellow Jacks Contrary to popular belief, the "infamous black-finned XR992" was NOT the "Leader's aircraft" - the black fin was simply for a conspicuity /visibility trial for a few weeks in early July 1964 and during that time, it was flown in different positions within the formation. The black paint was then removed and it never appeared like that in a "public" display. And Airfix got the fin as all black it was not some bits are Yellow. Gary and others and I spent many hours doing that book, if you are doing a Reds A/C you should get hold of a copy it is a big help in getting the colours and other details right. Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Thanks, Paul. Which book is that please? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixII Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hi John, believe the publication refered to was a VERY good addition to the IPMS magazine a few years ago. First mention was made by Truro Model Builder No.2 post in this thread. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Ah, of course, thanks. Being daft. I guess it's for IPMS members only though. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Is it this one? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixII Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Dat de one! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Thanks, I've enquired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I think IPMS (UK) still might have some of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 7 hours ago, Julien said: I think IPMS (UK) still might have some of those. They have, or had...mine arrived last week. Good value too. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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