B-17F in 1/72 - options?

[Graham Boak]

So buy an E and a G and cross-kit?

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

So buy an E and a G and cross-kit?

Neither version would have the correct nose transparency for an F, though, but available from the aftermarket.

Mike

[tomprobert]

On 7/22/2019 at 9:19 PM, Jure Miljevic said:

Choosing B-17 E would solve cheek windows question, but then one would have to find paddle-blade propellers, late model cowlings, blank out windows on the top of the nose and scratch-build G type astrodome instead, add fuel vents on wing tips ... It is hardly worth it. Cheers

Jure

If @k5054nz was planning on using an E model to convert to a standard B-17G, then agreed that it would be a lot of work. However, N3073G is far from a standard G model and has been extensively modded to represent an F model. 

 

Indeed paddle-blade props would need to be sourced, but N3703G has the small upper nose windows (as on an E model) and no astrodome either - David Tallichet invested a lot of time in backdating it to an earlier nose configuration - therefore with the nose cone aside, it’s an identical nose configuration to an E. 

 

The slightly shorter cowlings fitted to the F/G will be barely noticeable in 1/72 scale - it’ll be barely 1mm difference. 

 

A quick session with a drill and file, and hey presto, you have the Tokyo Tank vents. 

 

Doing these relatively simple mods to an E model kit to replicate N3703G would be far simpler than backdating a G model kit which would mean heavy mods to the cheek windows, removal of the astrodome, opening of the upper nose windows, potential unstaggering the waist guns, sourcing a new top turret dome, potentially having to find a new tail turret, etc. 

 

If I were to be building N3073G, sourcing an E kit would save a huge amount of time and effort, but at the end of the day, it’s each to their own. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by tomprobert
Typos

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello tomprobert

Agreed, to each their own. I browsed through N3703G pictures again as I wondered how could I have missed the early F style nose. It turned out N3703G had the nose reconstruction after the filming the Memphis Belle. During production it was still in G configuration (probably to reduce individual aircraft features which allowed Fortresses to carry various guises, thus helping to create an illusion of mass formation), as evident on photos like this one. So it is up to Zac to decide if he wanted to build a model of a movie star or a more authentic post production N3703G version. I believe, at least for the former, conversion of a B-17 G kit is still easier path to follow. Cheers

Jure

[k5054nz]

On 7/24/2019 at 9:59 PM, Jure Miljevic said:

So it is up to Zac to decide if he wanted to build a model of a movie star or a more authentic post production N3703G version. I believe, at least for the former, conversion of a B-17 G kit is still easier path to follow.

Thank you both for your thoughts and advice, as I mentioned I know precious little about B-17 variants so this is all very welcome and helpful. My idea is to build the movie star version,

[elger]

On 2/8/2018 at 9:45 PM, 72modeler said:

 

Airfix props OK, but hubs slightly underscale; blade profile simplified compared to the top two contenders; Academy props have the poorest blade profile for their F/G kits; narrow chord props and cowlings for their B-17C/D kits are better. Quickboost makes replacement resin cowls and props for the Academy F/G kits, but the cowling lips aren't as good as the Hasegawa and Revell kits. In my opinion, after comparing it to the other kits and drawings, the new-tool Revell kit is useful for its outstanding detail parts, but has too many shape and dimension issues; it does look good when built, however....but those wings and that nose!

Mike

 

 

Hi Mike - I was wondering; do you have any thoughts on the Quickboost propeller set for the Academy B-24? The hubs are much bigger, would they be overscale? What should the size be of 1/72 B-17 propeller hubs?

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, elger said:

do you have any thoughts on the Quickboost propeller set for the Academy B-24?

I have the Quickboost set 72575 for the B-17G, but I do not have their set 72336 for the B-24, as I already have two Hasegawa Libs and the kit props are pretty good. For some reason almost every kitmaker molds their prop hubs  underscale and simplified in detail. It looks like the Quickboost B-24 prop hubs are larger than their B-17G prop hubs, but it's pretty hard to tell from the photos. IIRC, the B-17F/G and the B-24D late production through the B-24M had the same prop diameter and chord. Neither Ultracast or Barracuda cast did 1/72 props for the B-17 or B-24, which is a shame, because they usually nail their props and spinners. To me, the Quickboost B-17 prop hubs are pretty close, but I wish I could tell you if their B-24 prop hubs are actually larger than their B-17 hubs. Not much help, I know! I will try to pull my kits and my resin props and do some eyeballing- if I find anything significant, I will  amend this post.

Mike

[elger]

43 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

I have the Quickboost set 72575 for the B-17G, but I do not have their set 72336 for the B-24, as I already have two Hasegawa Libs and the kit props are pretty good. For some reason almost every kitmaker molds their prop hubs  underscale and simplified in detail. It looks like the Quickboost B-24 prop hubs are larger than their B-17G prop hubs, but it's pretty hard to tell from the photos. IIRC, the B-17F/G and the B-24D late production through the B-24M had the same prop diameter and chord. Neither Ultracast or Barracuda cast did 1/72 props for the B-17 or B-24, which is a shame, because they usually nail their props and spinners. To me, the Quickboost B-17 prop hubs are pretty close, but I wish I could tell you if their B-24 prop hubs are actually larger than their B-17 hubs. Not much help, I know! I will try to pull my kits and my resin props and do some eyeballing- if I find anything significant, I will  amend this post.

Mike

 

That would be great, thanks! If you have the measurements of what the size of the hubs should be then I can measure these parts too.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/54481/what-are-dimensions-of-the-b-17-propellers

B-17 propeller, Hamilton Standard 3 blade Hydromatic WEE40-473 or 505, full feathering, hub 23E50-473, Blade 6477A-6, Diameter 11 feet 7 inches.

 

USN Performance notes.

USN PB4Y-1 Hamilton Standard 3 blade, 11 foot 7 inch, Blade Design Number 6477A-O

USN PB4Y-2 Hamilton Standard 3 blade 11 foot 7 inch, Blade Design Number 6353A-18

 

According to the CAA Hamilton Standard made 124,082 23-E-50 blade hydromatic propellers January 1940 to August 1945, out of a total of 138,130 3 blade hydromatic propellers.

[72modeler]

@elger,

 

I don't have the actual diameter or length of the prop hub for a B-17F/G, but I am guessing it would be the same for the Hamilton Standard three blade props used on an A-20, B-25, A-26, B-17, B-24,and  PV-1/2. Wish we had one of those types handy here where I live so I could slap a caliper on the hub to give you the actual diameter. That being said, I pulled some kits and measured an Academy, Hasegawa, and Revell B-17G prop hub. All of them had a hub diameter of approximately 3mm, which looks slighty too small to me. I also measure the hub on my Tamiya F4U-1, and it measured 3.5mm in diameter, which looked a little better. I also measured the hub on one of my old Monogram B-25H/B-26B kits, which are not a true 1/72 scale, being 1/69 scale, IIRC, but they have beautifully shaped and detailed props and hubs, and they measured 4mm in diameter- the hubs on those two kits look the best to me, and over many raids of old hobby shops and five-and-dime stores, I have managed to snag seven kits for their props. The props ujsed on the B-25 and A-26 were not the same diameter and shape as those for  a B-17F/G and B-24D/M, so the old Monogram props couldn't be used for a B-17 or B-24, but the hubs could be. Wish I could be of more help- good luck with your B-17F; which one are you going to model?

Mike

[elger]

7 hours ago, 72modeler said:

@elger,

 

I don't have the actual diameter or length of the prop hub for a B-17F/G, but I am guessing it would be the same for the Hamilton Standard three blade props used on an A-20, B-25, A-26, B-17, B-24,and  PV-1/2. Wish we had one of those types handy here where I live so I could slap a caliper on the hub to give you the actual diameter. That being said, I pulled some kits and measured an Academy, Hasegawa, and Revell B-17G prop hub. All of them had a hub diameter of approximately 3mm, which looks slighty too small to me. I also measure the hub on my Tamiya F4U-1, and it measured 3.5mm in diameter, which looked a little better. I also measured the hub on one of my old Monogram B-25H/B-26B kits, which are not a true 1/72 scale, being 1/69 scale, IIRC, but they have beautifully shaped and detailed props and hubs, and they measured 4mm in diameter- the hubs on those two kits look the best to me, and over many raids of old hobby shops and five-and-dime stores, I have managed to snag seven kits for their props. The props ujsed on the B-25 and A-26 were not the same diameter and shape as those for  a B-17F/G and B-24D/M, so the old Monogram props couldn't be used for a B-17 or B-24, but the hubs could be. Wish I could be of more help- good luck with your B-17F; which one are you going to model?

Mike

 

For now I've given up the idea of a 1/72 F, so I'm going for a late G with the Airfix kit. Building one with a local connection, 43-37913 "Seattle Sleeper" https://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/11919

 

The Quickboost B-24 hubs measurements are as follows:

 

Front "dome" diameter: 3,2 mm

Back "ring" diameter: 4,0 mm

Length: 7,8 mm

[72modeler]

7 hours ago, elger said:

Building one with a local connection, 43-37913 "Seattle Sleeper"

Whoo boy- bare metal! You sure know how to have fun! Good luck!

Mike

[k5054nz]

On 7/24/2019 at 6:35 PM, tomprobert said:

If I were to be building N3073G, sourcing an E kit would save a huge amount of time and effort, but at the end of the day, it’s each to their own. 

I'm a bit late in acknowledging you directly Tom but a sincere thank you for all your info, and I will likely be in touch to see if your props are still available (COVID postage issues and my bank balance willing!).