It's a HOG! 1/72 Italeri A-10A Thunderbolt II - Completed! Pg.32

[giemme]

On 29/1/2018 at 22:59, keefr22 said:

Lovely pit G, really cracking job! 

 

K

 

On 29/1/2018 at 23:09, amblypygid said:

 

And skill, Giorgio...

 

Echoing others, that's a really nice 'pit. The detail on the IP is remarkable given the scale.

Thanks Keith and Chris, you're both too kind

 

I have another question for the experts, regarding the canopy. I saw in many pics, like this for example (coming from PrimePortal), will remove if asked)

 

that there is what I think is a detonation cord. Was it on every version of this aircraft? Because I saw many other pics in which I can't really tell if it's there or not

TIA

 

Ciao

Edited February 1, 2018 by giemme

[giemme]

Hi everybody, a quick update this morning.

 

I masked the windshield and canopy, outside

 

and inside

 

then I glued in the respective PE frames

 

 

Sorry for the blurry pic. I used CA gel to glue the PE to the clear plastic, because it doesn't fog. Now I'll let them cure for at least 24 hours, then I'll use a Dremel sanding disc to refine the edges and make them level with the plastic edges.

 

That's it for the day, comments welcome

 

Ciao

[matteo44]

Good work Giorgio... 

For your question... sorry but I don't know...

[boom175]

On 1/31/2018 at 3:53 AM, giemme said:

 

Thanks Keith and Chris, you're both too kind

 

I have another question for the experts, regarding the canopy. I saw in many pics, like this for example (coming from PrimePortal), will remove if asked)

 

that there is what I think is a detonation cord. Was it on every version of this aircraft? Because I saw many other pics in which I can't really tell if it's there or not

TIA

 

Ciao

Are you talking about the approx 1" wide strip on the top of the inside of the canopy?? If so its a piece of pretty beefy aluminum tape that acts as a lightning diverter strip.  It goes all the way to the rear of the inside of the frame where there is a screw that goes through the tape and connects to the frame to provide conductivity just in case of a lightning strike!

[Sting67]

Just now, boom175 said:

Are you talking about the approx 1" wide strip on the top of the inside of the canopy?? If so its a piece of pretty beefy aluminum tape that acts as a lightning diverter strip.  It goes all the way to the rear of the inside of the frame where there is a screw that goes through the tape and connects to the frame to provide conductivity just in case of a lightning strike!

That's very interesting.

 

@Giorgio

Regarding most Desert Storm pics, at least it seems that the EL A-10s don't have this strip (from what I can see on the pics).

 

Ramon

[giemme]

2 hours ago, matteo44 said:

Good work Giorgio... 

For your question... sorry but I don't know...

Grazie Matteo

 

13 minutes ago, boom175 said:

Are you talking about the approx 1" wide strip on the top of the inside of the canopy?? If so its a piece of pretty beefy aluminum tape that acts as a lightning diverter strip.  It goes all the way to the rear of the inside of the frame where there is a screw that goes through the tape and connects to the frame to provide conductivity just in case of a lightning strike!

Precisely that one, boom   Was it a common/standard feature? I don't have many clear shots of that area for early A-10As, but in some cases it looks like it's not there ...  

 

2 minutes ago, Sting67 said:

@Giorgio

Regarding most Desert Storm pics, at least it seems that the EL A-10s don't have this strip (from what I can see on the pics).

 

Ramon

Yes, I have the same impression, although none of the pics I saw is conclusive in that regard

 

Ciao

Edited February 1, 2018 by giemme

[Sting67]

Just now, giemme said:

Yes, I have the same impression, although none of the pics I saw is conclusive in that regard

That's true. Unfortunately there are very few good Desert Storm pics of the 'England AFB' A-10s.

 

Another fact is that the England A-10s used two different styles of national insignia, some birds wore one, some wore the other one. Also this can often not be seen on pictures.

[giemme]

1 hour ago, Sting67 said:

Another fact is that the England A-10s used two different styles of national insignia, some birds wore one, some wore the other one. Also this can often not be seen on pictures.

Wanna talk about the tail fin markings?  I mean the colored strip on the very top of both tail fins; I saw at least three different versions, and I've yet to check properly for the kit decals, although I suspect there's some sort of mix up there ... 

 

Ciao

[Massimo]

10 hours ago, giemme said:

I used CA gel to glue the PE to the clear plastic, because it doesn't fog.

Hi Giorgio,

very nice improvements on those canopies!!!

I didn't know that. I normally dip the clear part in Future , as I was told it avoids the CAfumes.

I'll try that.Is Super Attack gel good for this scope?

Edited February 1, 2018 by massimo2

[Cookenbacher]

2 hours ago, giemme said:

Wanna talk about the tail fin markings?  I mean the colored strip on the very top of both tail fins; I saw at least three different versions, and I've yet to check properly for the kit decals, although I suspect there's some sort of mix up there ... 

 

Ciao

One of the resident A-10 experts will know for sure, but usually, in the USAF, the fin stripe colors correspond to each squadron within the wing. My uninformed guess is that there was a wing based at England AFB with three squadrons attached (this was usual in the 1980's, but nowadays there is often only one or two squadrons per wing).

[boom175]

5 hours ago, giemme said:

Grazie Matteo

 

Precisely that one, boom   Was it a common/standard feature? I don't have many clear shots of that area for early A-10As, but in some cases it looks like it's not there ...  

 

Yes, I have the same impression, although none of the pics I saw is conclusive in that regard

 

Ciao

Yep, We had to inspect it every day for cracks and continuity. We did cut back on it recently for the helmet mounted sight system.

[giemme]

2 hours ago, massimo said:

Hi Giorgio,

very nice improvements on those canopies!!!

I didn't know that. I normally dip the clear part in Future , as I was told it avoids the CAfumes.

I'll try that.Is Super Attack gel good for this scope?

Thanks Massimo

Super Attack Power Easy is the one I use; you will notice it doesn't smell at all, unlike regular CA, and this is because it doesn't release any fumes. I normally don't coat my transparents, just polish them with a Dremel tool - except in this case, because I wanted to try Aqua Gloss. The CA gel also has the advantage of allowing you a few more seconds to play around with parts, so very useful for PEs. It doesn't make for a good filler, though - regular CA, or "flour improved" like yours is much better for that

 

1 hour ago, Cookenbacher said:

One of the resident A-10 experts will know for sure, but usually, in the USAF, the fin stripe colors correspond to each squadron within the wing. My uninformed guess is that there was a wing based at England AFB with three squadrons attached (this was usual in the 1980's, but nowadays there is often only one or two squadrons per wing).

Thanks Cookie, it makes perfectly sense.  The confusion arises from the fact that there are pictures of England A-10As with last part of the serial 0186 that show different tail stripes; one of them is 79-0186 (supposedly the first markings option of the kit, and the aircraft I'm modelling), another one is 80-0186. Not in all of them you can actually tell the difference.

 

 

Edit: I just checked the kit decals, and option A is 80-186, so apologies if I have reported it incorrectly in my previous posts; the tail fin stripes are solid blue on the decals, though, while I'm pretty sure (can't check right now) I saw pictures of this airframe with red checkered stripes ...

 

Ciao

[giemme]

5 minutes ago, boom175 said:

Yep, We had to inspect it every day for cracks and continuity. We did cut back on it recently for the helmet mounted sight system.

Thanks boom I have to admit I do not understand why you had to cut back on it because of the sight system, though ...  (total lack of knowledge from my side)

 

Ciao

 

 

[Sting67]

Giorgio, I have compared pictures of the unit you are building. Check every available information again and again before you start decaling.

Information on unit 80-0186 is (at least for me) a bit confusing.

 

There is a painting profile of the 80-0186 with the red woman on the aircraft. The aircraft shows no signs that it is a CO aircraft. The squadron this unit belongs to is the 74th TFS. This aircraft is the one Italeri offers among the building options. I didn't find a real picture of that plane excepting this one which doesn't show much.

 

But when you google the net the unit 80-0186 which suffered heavy battle damage is a CO aircraft that belongs to the 76th TFS.

 

Interesting is also that the tail of the battle damaged unit 80-0186 looks like the CO aircraft of 79-0196 (excepting the serial number).

 

Edit: I just found the aircraft with the painted "Devil Woman". Its unit 80-0163 "We give no quarter" of the 76th TFS. Check the Desert Storm page.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Sting67

[Cookenbacher]

Oh, I'm just putting it together - the 23rd Fighter Wing  at England AFB had its origins with the 23rd Fighter Group in China during WWII. The AVG "Flying Tigers" were officially part of the Nationalist Chinese Air Force prior to the US entering the war. The Flying Tigers became the 23rd Fighter Group when they transferred to the USAAF. I'm pretty sure that the "Devil Woman" is the symbol used for the "Hell's Angels" squadron within the AVG (the other two squadrons were the "Pandas" and the "Adam and Eves") if your kit doesn't come with that decal, it probably wouldn't be difficult to find one in a kit or aftermarket decals for an AVG P-40!

[giemme]

18 hours ago, Sting67 said:

Information on unit 80-0186 is (at least for me) a bit confusing.

Tell me about it!   I definitely think Italeri mixed up things between 79-0186 a 80-0186 (and possibly 79-0196) when researching for the correct markings, but I can really understand that, given what you say and what I found.  

Anyway, thanks a lot for the links you posted

 

14 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

Oh, I'm just putting it together - the 23rd Fighter Wing  at England AFB had its origins with the 23rd Fighter Group in China during WWII. The AVG "Flying Tigers" were officially part of the Nationalist Chinese Air Force prior to the US entering the war. The Flying Tigers became the 23rd Fighter Group when they transferred to the USAAF. I'm pretty sure that the "Devil Woman" is the symbol used for the "Hell's Angels" squadron within the AVG (the other two squadrons were the "Pandas" and the "Adam and Eves") if your kit doesn't come with that decal, it probably wouldn't be difficult to find one in a kit or aftermarket decals for an AVG P-40!

I thought someone else already mentioned about the Flying Tigers along the thread, but I was wrong - so thanks Cookie for bringing it along  

 

As for the Devil Woman, all the pictures I have of 80-186 don't show that, and the same goes for 79-0186 ... I definitely need to check the kit decal sheet, anyway. I'll do that tonight    

 

Ciao

[Cookenbacher]

Ha! I'm a little slow on the uptake - I guess the shark mouths should have been a clue!

[Sting67]

On 2.2.2018 at 17:19, giemme said:

Tell me about it!   I definitely think Italeri mixed up things between 79-0186 a 80-0186 (and possibly 79-0196) when researching for the correct markings, but I can really understand that, given what you say and what I found.  

Anyway, thanks a lot for the links you posted

I asume that the artist of the painting mixed things up a bit or created a non-existing unit and that Italeri just saved additional research work and time, or didn't find enough necessary detail pictures and easily overtook the paintings to create decals for this aircraft. But, still continue with everything. Until you come to the decalling stage its still a long way and the camouflage is the same on all aircraft. Just three decal sections require attention and possible improvisation: the tail markings, the pilot names below the front canopy and the mission markings. And, as you will build an open ladder door, the painting on the inside of the door. Here some custom decal creation will help.

 

I have it easier as I will build 79-0210 that I have on a Superscale decal sheet. That was the only England unit that was in the Gulf War on a decal sheet. None of the many decal producers were able to launch more EL units of Desert Storm in 1/72.

 

As soon as I have my aircraft built, I plan to build a second EL aircraft, also of the 74th TFS. Then I will try to improvise and build some custom decals. Then I will probably also create a WIP thread. But I first have to solve some tricky modelling problems with my current build

Edited February 3, 2018 by Sting67

[giemme]

'morning all

 

Time for an update, but first I want to get back for a moment to the decals and markings mess; these are the specific decals Italeri supplies for Option A, which is stated to be A-10A 80-0186 of the 74th TFS/23 TFW

 

Looking at this link that Sting67 posted earlier, 80-0186 belonged to 76th TFS; on the other hand, there's a 79-0186 listed in the 74th TFS/23 TFW table, this:

 

which is the closest match for the kit decals. You will however notice that the serial reported on the wing U/C bay is 9186; now, in the A-10A inventory, there's no sign of a 9186, whatever the construction year, so I'm guessing there must be some sort of coding or marking reason behind this. 

On the decal sheet the wing code is 0186, but that's an easy fix because I can get "9" digits from the other schemes; the tail codes (I need to replace 80 with 79) are going to be harder to fix, though, because there's nothing on the decal sheet that can be used for that, and they are way too tiny to attempt any masking.

Then there are the mission markings (you can see them in red on the above pic, right under the windshield and down to the front U/C door); I have no idea about how they actually look like.

Lastly, the painting inside the boarding ladder door and the red woman; I have no pics taken form port side of 79-0186, and also have no clue where the "lizard" art on the decal sheet comes from ...  

 

Anyway, as I said this is a progress report, so let's see some pics  

 

IP glued to the tub (regular CA for this)

 

 

 

To have the IP sitting in properly, I actually had to shave off some of the tub resin where it meets the two IP bottom side corners; this on account of the added thickness (and width) caused by the PE IP parts.

Time for a dry fit with fuselage halves

 

then I wanted to check for the HUD position and the windshield fit. Bit of blue tack to hold the HUD frame in place

 

and it looks like everything fits nicely

 

To complete the paint job for the cockpit, I brush painted the throttle and control stick

 

 

 

 

You may have noticed that a pretty relevant part of the cockpit and tub hasn't come play as of yet ... the seat, of course . This is because I'm still undecided about the final configuration of the model (i.e. pilot or no pilot), and since there a lot of tiny PE parts to be added to the resin seat, including belts and harness, this task will be postponed for the time being

 

So next job is detailing the front U/C bay; I started by adding some missing ribbing on this kit part (inner vertical side of the front U/C bay)

 on which I first traced and scribed some guiding lines. I then cut out some thin strips of 0.25mm styrene and glued them in place with Tamiya Green Cap

 

I also removed the front RWR antenna and filled in the void with CA+talc mix, here after sanding and polishing

 

Last thing for the day, I glued in the two glass screens for the HUD frame

 

Comments welcome, as ever

 

Ciao

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by giemme

[Sting67]

3 hours ago, giemme said:

You will however notice that the serial reported on the wing U/C bay is 9186; now, in the A-10A inventory, there's no sign of a 9186, whatever the construction year, so I'm guessing there must be some sort of coding or marking reason behind this. 

On the decal sheet the wing code is 0186, but that's an easy fix because I can get "9" digits from the other schemes; the tail codes (I need to replace 80 with 79) are going to be harder to fix, though, because there's nothing on the decal sheet that can be used for that, and they are way too tiny to attempt any masking.

First of all: Excellent progress pics und very nice paint job on the cockpit. It looks very convincing. Also the detailing of the front wheel bay walls looks good. It is also very helpful that you mention details of what you did and what materials you took to achieve the result. Well done.

 

To one of your questions above I can say what I've noticed. I'm not an expert but it looks like the number on the U/C side fronts are like an abreviation of the entire serial number. To show it better it's like this:

80-0186 = 0186

79-0186 = 9186

Actually, on 80-0186 the first digit '8' and the third digit '0' have been skipped. On 79-0186 the first digit '7' and the third digit '0' have been skipped.

 

Ramon

[giemme]

Cheers Ramon, thank you  

 

31 minutes ago, Sting67 said:

To one of your questions above I can say what I've noticed. I'm not an expert but it looks like the number on the U/C side fronts are like an abreviation of the entire serial number. To show it better it's like this:

80-0186 = 0186

79-0186 = 9186

Actually, on 80-0186 the first digit '8' and the third digit '0' have been skipped. On 79-0186 the first digit '7' and the third digit '0' have been skipped.

Now that you mention it, I seem to remember something about it from when I built Gene K's F-4C "Sandy Bay-bee" - I think it makes perfectly sense

 

Ciao

 

[Massimo]

That cockpit is even better than the  last time I saw it!!!

No rush about the seat, we can wait!!!

[Cookenbacher]

The cockpit looks great Giorgio!

 

I've been meaning to invest in these decals for some time now, the actual tail codes are probably too big for your needs, but the serials may come in handy.

[giemme]

3 hours ago, massimo said:

That cockpit is even better than the  last time I saw it!!!

No rush about the seat, we can wait!!!

Thanks Massimo Cockipt is like wine, aging makes it better

 

1 hour ago, Cookenbacher said:

The cockpit looks great Giorgio!

 

I've been meaning to invest in these decals for some time now, the actual tail codes are probably too big for your needs, but the serials may come in handy.

Thanks Cookie, also for the link! Now I know I have a viable solution for the serial numbers

 

Ciao 

[Spookytooth]

Oh, the woe of decals!!!

Such a subject could run for years....LOL.

 

Nice work on the office Giemme, looking sweet, as per norm.

 

 

Simon.