spaddad Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 As long as Airfix kits are made in India these problems will persist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, 304th BRAT said: Airfix could do with decent quality control. I've had short shots on the Fortress 3 and the new Wellington. Agreed. But Airfix have evidently decided that the increased profit margins resulting from not weeding out short shots, etc are more important than the reputational damage they occasion. Time will tell whether that is a good call. Edited July 15, 2018 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratch Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I don't think its increased profit margins, its keeping product down to a price point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I find the stuff about the moulding process really interesting. It would be good to know what causes issues like the Sea Fury Short shot fin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invidia Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 13 hours ago, 304th BRAT said: Airfix could do with decent quality control. I've had short shots on the Fortress 3 and the new Wellington. I second this, most of the new airfix kits I have built or in the stash have warped parts or short shots, the only ones which didn't where the Be2 and fokker e1 kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Schilhart Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 13 hours ago, 304th BRAT said: Airfix could do with decent quality control. I've had short shots on the Fortress 3 and the new Wellington. That's what my Airfix Marauder looks like, in the box. There's something missing .... I guess ... 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixII Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Hi all, one thing I will ask, you've told us about the short shots and warped components, but, have you told Hornby? Don't expect them to come over here and check on a minute by minute basis and if they don't know they can't fix it. Just saying...... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightersweep Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Roman Schilhart said: That's what my Airfix Marauder looks like, in the box. There's something missing .... I guess ... Wow! Hornby need to know about that. Half the kit is missing. One other thing I noticed from this photo. The first line of the German language instructions say "Die B-26 Mitchell". Oops! Edited July 16, 2018 by fightersweep 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanC Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Yes that's terrible. Worst I've seen.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanC Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) On 7/15/2018 at 10:40 AM, fightersweep said: New Boston Havoc? Yes I'd really like to see that too. They've done the Blenheim so if they could stretch to the Boston and obviously a Mossie we'd have 2 Group nicely covered. No need to worry about the Ventura! Edited July 16, 2018 by IanC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Plasto said: I find the stuff about the moulding process really interesting. It would be good to know what causes issues like the Sea Fury Short shot fin... In the main, it's the plastic injection process being a fraction too short - for the Sea Fury, the design of the panel line on the fin leading edge meant the plastic didn't quite reach the full mould. It needed to be held under pressure for a little onger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 17 hours ago, spaddad said: As long as Airfix kits are made in India these problems will persist. Not really so: Quality control, like everything eles costs money which must be passed on to the Consumer. Let's take a theoretical scenario: Firm A Based in Mumbai and a short distance from the docks. Non existant Quality Control, but by far the lowest cost. Firm B Based in Kolkutta slightly more expensive, but not disproportionately so in relation to the improved Quality Control. However the location adds another 4 weeks to the shipping time Firm C Based in Dehli, undoubted India's top firm with much work for the Aerospace Industry. Position 'in the Queue' likely to change without warning due to 'National Needs' though how this relates to a recently released (though late) Washing Machine is hard to figure out. Curiously Firm C's executives have recently all changed their cars for the very very latest ultra top of the range.... I'm sure Airfix are well aware of QC problems and cringe when some of the horror mouldings are shown. Their solution is a part replacement service, which though I've never needed it, I'm told is second-to-none. The only part I've ever needed to replace was a Hasegawa F-104 canopy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeronut Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Its not just moulding flaws Airfix needs to keep on top of. My drooling session over my newly purchased Wellington was marred by a distorted engine cowling which had its cowl flaps crushed into the runner below it and the whole cowling bent 'out of round'. I'm not going to get overly upset as I am a modeller and getting it round again and replacing two cowl flaps should be within my abilities, if not then its an engine change diorama with the maintenance set already in the stash. Anyway, has anyone praised Airfix for the transparencies in the Wellington? commendably thin, clear and sparkling; long may this continue. Maybe they are listening after all the recent releases that have had faults in the clear parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaddad Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Denford said: Not really so: Quality control, like everything eles costs money which must be passed on to the Consumer. Let's take a theoretical scenario: Firm A Based in Mumbai and a short distance from the docks. Non existant Quality Control, but by far the lowest cost. Firm B Based in Kolkutta slightly more expensive, but not disproportionately so in relation to the improved Quality Control. However the location adds another 4 weeks to the shipping time Firm C Based in Dehli, undoubted India's top firm with much work for the Aerospace Industry. Position 'in the Queue' likely to change without warning due to 'National Needs' though how this relates to a recently released (though late) Washing Machine is hard to figure out. Curiously Firm C's executives have recently all changed their cars for the very very latest ultra top of the range.... I'm sure Airfix are well aware of QC problems and cringe when some of the horror mouldings are shown. Their solution is a part replacement service, which though I've never needed it, I'm told is second-to-none. The only part I've ever needed to replace was a Hasegawa F-104 canopy. I'm not really sure what your point is. Your first 3 words contradict my point then the rest of your post goes on to validate my assertion that the majority of their QC problems relate solely to manufacture in India, for whatever reasons of corruption or incompetence. In any case it cannot be good business practice to sell to a market that knows there is a good chance that the product you've just bought may be defective but that's alright because if you put yourself out to faff about & apply for a replacement part or parts everything will be fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heraldcoupe Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 50 minutes ago, Denford said: Their solution is a part replacement service, which though I've never needed it, I'm told is second-to-none. That's sadly not been true for some years. I've had to wait several months to receive replacement parts for newly released kits. After a year of waiting for replacement transparencies for one of my Blenheims, they sent me a full replacement kit as there were still no spare parts available... Currently awaiting clear parts for my Sea Fury, requested in April. Cheers, Bill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I concur. Airfix’s parts replacement service is no where near as user friendly as it was. The preferred option currently seems to be for you to return the kit to the retailer for a full replacement. Which I suspect is cheaper for Hornby than mailing out bits. All manufacturers can and do have issues with short shot parts etc. From my experience Airfix kits have the most issues. I won’t buy one sight unseen anymore. It’s just too hard to rectify the issues or get new parts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 On 7/14/2018 at 11:34 AM, Denford said: A 1/72 Sea Fury would surely outsell a Tin Wing Hurricane and make a fine 'Dogfight Double with the MiG 15 too! Not sure about the „outsell“ aspect but if they see a market for the Fury in 1/48, there must be one in 72nd too. And most of the design work is recyclable. And - no competition! (Unless SH or someone made a new tool that escaped me) I‘d say a fairly safe bet, if not for 2019 then 20. Still a Fury is no Venom. Even less competition, in any scale. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 20 hours ago, Ratch said: I don't think its increased profit margins, its keeping product down to a price point. As they pay their moulding facility to inject plastic, I‘d incorporate the standard to be met in the agreement, and if it’s not met, reject the rubbish and make them pay for substandard stuff that gets through. This may harm the prices , however 10 hours ago, Roman Schilhart said: That's what my Airfix Marauder looks like, in the box. There's something missing .... I guess ... That’s nasty, but faults like this occurred on French made kits, too. I think I have a 1987 boxing of the Mitchell... err...Marauder that has similar defects. Some of this may be down to the fact that at least pre 1981 moulds were designed to run on their specific equipment, and may not work without fine tuning on any other machine. At least that’s what I think I read about Matchbox tools. 5 hours ago, Denford said: I'm sure Airfix are well aware of QC problems and cringe when some of the horror mouldings are shown. Their solution is a part replacement service, ... A replacement service will inevitably multiply cost. IMHO that makes sense only if they can either pass the full cost to their supplier, or gamble that they have only a 1% complaint rate or lower. A Series 6 kit may not be a suitable contender for the latter as the majority won‘t be bought by people who don’t care (even if they probably could fix it). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, tempestfan said: A replacement service will inevitably multiply cost. IMHO that makes sense only if they can either pass the full cost to their supplier, or gamble that they have only a 1% complaint rate or lower. Yes, the idea that Airfix have (apparently) consciously adopted as a planning assumption the premise that only a financially insignificant number of customers will complain if Airfix palm off faulty or substandard products on them leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. If such a decision has been made, they deserve to be bitten in the bottom by it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 23 hours ago, spaddad said: As long as Airfix kits are made in India these problems will persist. I do not see how this is connected to the place of the moulding. It’s a case of squeezing out the last half penny. The automotive industry knows this as the Lopez effect for 25 years plus. Airfix has had junk coming out of China, Revell has it occasionally from Poland, and it certainly wouldn’t be a problem to get junk from Germany if you‘re prepared to spend ridiculous amounts only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I don’t think it matters where the product is made. The issue is Airfix kits have a higher than average chance of being delivered with a fault. If that’s down to old tools on new machines, non existent QC, factoring in a reject rate into the goods you supply is to a degree moot... If you want enthusiasts to buy your product and pay top tier prices for it then the quality of the finished goods needs to improve. It’s been poor for a number of years and it’s not seemingly improving.. My view if Airfix were to release anything for 2019 it would be a comprehensive quality improvement and customer support plan... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I must be in a minority as I have not had a problem kit from Airfix for a long while. I recently bought and started on the Revell FAA Corsair and I have to say I am slightly underwhelmed by it. Some nice detail, but the moulding is quite soft and some flash is present. The fit is not quite as good as some as, for example, the Hunter. To get the different variants they seem to have engineered the kit to make some areas more difficult than might be expected. By no means a bad kit, but not the relaxation from the the last two, both Magna kits that I have finished/working on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Oh dear: this is supposed to be about Airfix 2019.... Shifting production from India will merely move the problem elsewhere. The whole operation (not just Airfix but Hornby Hobbies) is under contract which should perhaps be reviewed when it expires. Refusing to pay for faulty sprues will result in the 'Moulder' refusing to return the Mould to Airfix! Mistakes will always occur. Air travel is supposed to be one of the safest means of transport, yet there are seat belts, life jackets, emergency exits, oxygen masks and the like. There will always be faulty, missing and duplicated etc sprues. The complaints should be, not about the foregoing happening, but about how the matter is dealt with. In the past it seems that Airfix had a good 'customer service' for this. Now, presumably to save costs, this is no more (I hope they paid her off well) and the onus is on the retailer were, legally, it lies. So to my mind, that's the problem: not Quality Control of the sprues, but that Airfix don't want to be involved in the remedy. I'm sorry for those who have been unlucky, but then I would be sadder still if Airfix were to go under. I'd take this opportunity to ask the person who made such interesting posts on injection mouldings and why ill-formed sprues occur, what quality control did his organisation have? And now to 2019! I feel it too will be a very lean year little, if at all, better than the current one. One subject we will surely see is early B-25 (without doubt a Dolittle Raider): there's even the single exhaust for it on the current sprues. What's more it has surely already been moulded! NA's terms (from an earlier post) was a royalties sum for each production run. So they're in store somewhere: let's hope the rats don't get them. For further variants (Airfix 2020 and off thread again) I spoke to the designer at Telford. Very knowledgeable, and he assured me that any 'early variant' could be built from the basic kit. Didn't ask which Airfix might have in mind: he wouldn't have told me anyway. There's always the aftermarket, though so far there seems to have been very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dick Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 14 hours ago, Roman Schilhart said: That's what my Airfix Marauder looks like, in the box. There's something missing .... I guess ... Crickey! Airfix have released another winner the "Battle Damaged Marauder", that German FLAK is intense to say the least... If only Hasegawa could re-release their Marauder... My sympathies, am now frightened to open any new Airfix boxing as to what surprises await! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratch Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I have built 599 Airfix kits and have only needed to use Customer Services three times. I've always had excellent service. When I visited them at Margate in 2010 I was astounded at the brass neck shown by punters. Those who said a whole runner was missing from a kit, who'd then say another runner was missing from the same kit - you get the idea, trying to get a whole kit free. Those who managed to stuff something up on their build but asked Spares to help them out with a replacement part. At that time they were getting about 70 requests per day, All of this was done for free. Some kits hadn't been in production for years, but Airfix were going on e-bay, buying kits for a single part for a punter. Wonderful customer service I'd say. When they moved out of Trun no spares were sent. Margate started with nothing. I'm not surprised that someone looked at the figures and said "That's enough!". It must have been costing them a bomb, and under British Law our (the modeller's) first recourse is with the Retailer. It is their responsibility to replace or refund, not the manufacturer, which is why Airfix now ask for proof of purchase - like Revell and Italeri have always done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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